The SB GTR+ comes standardwise with a 800 wing, a 330 stab and 95+ fuse. I had many sessions in like 11-20 knots with sails 4,7, 5,7 and a 7.0 foil sail. All on the SB 125 freeride board.

Now i ask myself, how to upgrade the wings as budgetfriendly as possible (that means change 1 wing rather than 2, front and rear). What SB wing combinations work, which don't? Especially I'm interested to sail in a even lower windrage than 11 knots.

Does for example 1000/330/95+ work? Or do I have to change rear wing to?

Just to open the discussion - starting from the SB gtr+ kit. Feel free to write your experiences with other wing upgrades that work, doesn't matter if its to be faster or for stronger winds - whatever. I'm interested, others might be too.

Isn't the 115+ fuselage intended for that? Instead of changing wings, you could change the lever

started with a similar kit to yours, first thing would be to upgrade stab, get a 255, a world of difference

Should be plenty enough to go faster on the 125

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The 1000/330/95 works great and will offer more lift and light wind performance. Used that setup a few times when I didn't have time to put the 115 fuselage on, but rather just switch out the front wing.

I, like you, started with the GT and ended up building new inventory to literally build a new foil set.

I have the GT & Race (ish) setups. Here's my inventory:
MAST: 85cm & 110cm
FUSE: 75cm & 115cm
WING: 800 & 1100
STAB: 255 & 330

I've ridden most combinations above (let's not consider the mast for below recommendations)
FUSE: 115 (Awesome stability)
--Best light wind: 1100wing & 255stab (best light wind combo. I can lift with my SS 86 counterparts in the same wind)
--Best speed: 800wing & 255stab (have to put the mast track forward, but this does go faster)
--Not good (Works): 1100wing & 330stab (Too much pitch resistance, or overly stable. I damn near have to run to the front of the board to pitch it down. I need to do more testing in light winds)
--Bad: Any front wing & the 500 stab (someone in the bay area tried this and bent their fuse)

FUSE: 75 (sensitive stability) - much harder to learn on
--Best light wind: 1100wing & 330stab (works well, twitchy, but great for jumping and freestyle stuff) I use my 85cm mast on this mostly
--Best speed: 800wing & 255stab (Original GTR)

MASTS:
--110cm (Love this because you can go fast or slow and deal with gusts easily. Lots of room to maneuver and be sloppy without landing or breaching. It does take a little more rear foot pressure/power to lift. This also works best in larger waves when trying to blast so you won't breach or touch down)
--85cm (I used this for colder months (don't have to go too far into the water) mostly. I also like this paired with the GT setup (800w/255s/75cm Fuse) for fast freestyle maneuverability, jumping, etc)

So, based on what you asked:
Get a 1100 wing. The 1000 isn't all that much of an upgrade, why not just get the 1100? provides maxim lift in lighter winds. My speed differential between the 800 and 1100 isn't all that different (maybe a few knots?). But the 1100 will lift faster/earlier than the 1000 and there isn't much difference in speed trade offs. Make a super light wind kit with this one.
Also get a 255 stab. If you want a little more pitch input on the 1100, it can help. I've not tried that combo with a 95cm fuse. Buy the 1100 first, and see how the pitch stability is. It might work well if paired with the 330 stab.

Other options down the road: the 115cm fuse is lots of fun. But if you're dealing with hitting waves/breaching in troughs, get a longer Mast.

In my experience from this years foiling records

With our 95+ fuselages on the Starboard freeride 125, I use the 95 mast with:
900 fw, 255 stab -0.5 or -1.0 shim;
800 fw, 255 stab, -1.0 or -1.5 if it's really windy.
ive got a millennium wing, but I feel the 900 is better for this board.
my wife using the same board.
85 mast and 1100 fw, 255 stab with -1.0 shim only ...no change down wing needed

max sail size 7m flyer or 7m phantom Iris
down to 4.5m

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IndecentExposur said..
I, like you, started with the GT and ended up building new inventory to literally build a new foil set.

I have the GT & Race (ish) setups. Here's my inventory:
MAST: 85cm & 110cm
FUSE: 75cm & 115cm
WING: 800 & 1100
STAB: 255 & 330

I've ridden most combinations above (let's not consider the mast for below recommendations)
FUSE: 115 (Awesome stability)
--Best light wind: 1100wing & 255stab (best light wind combo. I can lift with my SS 86 counterparts in the same wind)
--Best speed: 800wing & 255stab (have to put the mast track forward, but this does go faster)
--Not good (Works): 1100wing & 330stab (Too much pitch resistance, or overly stable. I damn near have to run to the front of the board to pitch it down. I need to do more testing in light winds)
--Bad: Any front wing & the 500 stab (someone in the bay area tried this and bent their fuse)

FUSE: 75 (sensitive stability) - much harder to learn on
--Best light wind: 1100wing & 330stab (works well, twitchy, but great for jumping and freestyle stuff) I use my 85cm mast on this mostly
--Best speed: 800wing & 255stab (Original GTR)

MASTS:
--110cm (Love this because you can go fast or slow and deal with gusts easily. Lots of room to maneuver and be sloppy without landing or breaching. It does take a little more rear foot pressure/power to lift. This also works best in larger waves when trying to blast so you won't breach or touch down)
--85cm (I used this for colder months (don't have to go too far into the water) mostly. I also like this paired with the GT setup (800w/255s/75cm Fuse) for fast freestyle maneuverability, jumping, etc)

So, based on what you asked:
Get a 1100 wing. The 1000 isn't all that much of an upgrade, why not just get the 1100? provides maxim lift in lighter winds. My speed differential between the 800 and 1100 isn't all that different (maybe a few knots?). But the 1100 will lift faster/earlier than the 1000 and there isn't much difference in speed trade offs. Make a super light wind kit with this one.
Also get a 255 stab. If you want a little more pitch input on the 1100, it can help. I've not tried that combo with a 95cm fuse. Buy the 1100 first, and see how the pitch stability is. It might work well if paired with the 330 stab.

Other options down the road: the 115cm fuse is lots of fun. But if you're dealing with hitting waves/breaching in troughs, get a longer Mast.

I'm in a similar situation as the OP, what about the 800 115 330 combo ?

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Dishpet said..

IndecentExposur said..
I, like you, started with the GT and ended up building new inventory to literally build a new foil set.

I have the GT & Race (ish) setups. Here's my inventory:
MAST: 85cm & 110cm
FUSE: 75cm & 115cm
WING: 800 & 1100
STAB: 255 & 330

I've ridden most combinations above (let's not consider the mast for below recommendations)
FUSE: 115 (Awesome stability)
--Best light wind: 1100wing & 255stab (best light wind combo. I can lift with my SS 86 counterparts in the same wind)
--Best speed: 800wing & 255stab (have to put the mast track forward, but this does go faster)
--Not good (Works): 1100wing & 330stab (Too much pitch resistance, or overly stable. I damn near have to run to the front of the board to pitch it down. I need to do more testing in light winds)
--Bad: Any front wing & the 500 stab (someone in the bay area tried this and bent their fuse)

FUSE: 75 (sensitive stability) - much harder to learn on
--Best light wind: 1100wing & 330stab (works well, twitchy, but great for jumping and freestyle stuff) I use my 85cm mast on this mostly
--Best speed: 800wing & 255stab (Original GTR)

MASTS:
--110cm (Love this because you can go fast or slow and deal with gusts easily. Lots of room to maneuver and be sloppy without landing or breaching. It does take a little more rear foot pressure/power to lift. This also works best in larger waves when trying to blast so you won't breach or touch down)
--85cm (I used this for colder months (don't have to go too far into the water) mostly. I also like this paired with the GT setup (800w/255s/75cm Fuse) for fast freestyle maneuverability, jumping, etc)

So, based on what you asked:
Get a 1100 wing. The 1000 isn't all that much of an upgrade, why not just get the 1100? provides maxim lift in lighter winds. My speed differential between the 800 and 1100 isn't all that different (maybe a few knots?). But the 1100 will lift faster/earlier than the 1000 and there isn't much difference in speed trade offs. Make a super light wind kit with this one.
Also get a 255 stab. If you want a little more pitch input on the 1100, it can help. I've not tried that combo with a 95cm fuse. Buy the 1100 first, and see how the pitch stability is. It might work well if paired with the 330 stab.

Other options down the road: the 115cm fuse is lots of fun. But if you're dealing with hitting waves/breaching in troughs, get a longer Mast.

I'm in a similar situation as the OP, what about the 800 115 330 combo ?

The 330 has a lot of surface area on a long moment arm (engineering speak). The amount of force needed to shift the angle where the stab is, is less. So, a 95cm fuse with a 330 might be similar to a 115cm fuse with a 255. My conclusion to your answer is easy: the 330 provides too much resistance based on how far out it is... It will be a super stable ride, but you'll have to make larger movements on the board for height control. The front wing has little to do with the pitch resistance. Also, the 330 won't turn as well (since it keeps things at a less AOA, turning sucks).

The first upgrade our national iqfoil instructors advise is the 115+. Never sailed it myself but kids love it

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IndecentExposur said..

Dishpet said..

IndecentExposur said..
I, like you, started with the GT and ended up building new inventory to literally build a new foil set.

I have the GT & Race (ish) setups. Here's my inventory:
MAST: 85cm & 110cm
FUSE: 75cm & 115cm
WING: 800 & 1100
STAB: 255 & 330

I've ridden most combinations above (let's not consider the mast for below recommendations)
FUSE: 115 (Awesome stability)
--Best light wind: 1100wing & 255stab (best light wind combo. I can lift with my SS 86 counterparts in the same wind)
--Best speed: 800wing & 255stab (have to put the mast track forward, but this does go faster)
--Not good (Works): 1100wing & 330stab (Too much pitch resistance, or overly stable. I damn near have to run to the front of the board to pitch it down. I need to do more testing in light winds)
--Bad: Any front wing & the 500 stab (someone in the bay area tried this and bent their fuse)

FUSE: 75 (sensitive stability) - much harder to learn on
--Best light wind: 1100wing & 330stab (works well, twitchy, but great for jumping and freestyle stuff) I use my 85cm mast on this mostly
--Best speed: 800wing & 255stab (Original GTR)

MASTS:
--110cm (Love this because you can go fast or slow and deal with gusts easily. Lots of room to maneuver and be sloppy without landing or breaching. It does take a little more rear foot pressure/power to lift. This also works best in larger waves when trying to blast so you won't breach or touch down)
--85cm (I used this for colder months (don't have to go too far into the water) mostly. I also like this paired with the GT setup (800w/255s/75cm Fuse) for fast freestyle maneuverability, jumping, etc)

So, based on what you asked:
Get a 1100 wing. The 1000 isn't all that much of an upgrade, why not just get the 1100? provides maxim lift in lighter winds. My speed differential between the 800 and 1100 isn't all that different (maybe a few knots?). But the 1100 will lift faster/earlier than the 1000 and there isn't much difference in speed trade offs. Make a super light wind kit with this one.
Also get a 255 stab. If you want a little more pitch input on the 1100, it can help. I've not tried that combo with a 95cm fuse. Buy the 1100 first, and see how the pitch stability is. It might work well if paired with the 330 stab.

Other options down the road: the 115cm fuse is lots of fun. But if you're dealing with hitting waves/breaching in troughs, get a longer Mast.

I'm in a similar situation as the OP, what about the 800 115 330 combo ?

The 330 has a lot of surface area on a long moment arm (engineering speak). The amount of force needed to shift the angle where the stab is, is less. So, a 95cm fuse with a 330 might be similar to a 115cm fuse with a 255. My conclusion to your answer is easy: the 330 provides too much resistance based on how far out it is... It will be a super stable ride, but you'll have to make larger movements on the board for height control. The front wing has little to do with the pitch resistance. Also, the 330 won't turn as well (since it keeps things at a less AOA, turning sucks).

Clear as day, much appreciated!

Nunca me hab?a subido a un foilrace.....hasta que prob? con un m?stil 95, fuselaje +115, 1000 y 255 -2. impresionante de estable, potencia! direcciones arriba y muy arriba, abajo y muy abajo, me encanto!!!! 10 nudos con 7,7m2 , 20 nudos 6m2, facil, rapido y divertido!!

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foilarg said..
Nunca me hab?a subido a un foilrace.....hasta que prob? con un m?stil 95, fuselaje +115, 1000 y 255 -2. impresionante de estable, potencia! direcciones arriba y muy arriba, abajo y muy abajo, me encanto!!!! 10 nudos con 7,7m2 , 20 nudos 6m2, facil, rapido y divertido!!

Until a better translation comes along, according to Google:
I had never been on a foilrace ..... until I tried it. with a 95 mast, fuselage +115, 1000 and 255 -2. awesome of stable, power! directions up and very up, down and very down, I loved it !!!! 10 knots with 7.7m2, 20 knots 6m2, easy, fast and fun !!

I think the website is missing some unicode characters.

thanks for the translation!!!

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foilarg said..
thanks for the translation!!!

Happy to help. I know it can be sometimes tough dealing with a second language. Didn't want that to stand in your way.

For those considering different Starboard Fuselages here is a pic with dimensions in mm.
Top to Bottom 115Plus, 115, 95, 75

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tbwonder said..
For those considering different Starboard Fuselages here is a pic with dimensions in mm.
Top to Bottom 115Plus, 115, 95, 75

Don't think you have enough choices Andy ??

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tbwonder said..
For those considering different Starboard Fuselages here is a pic with dimensions in mm.
Top to Bottom 115Plus, 115, 95, 75

Wow. The 115Plus isn't what I expected it to be. Did you have to modify mast track & footstrap locations based on how much further forward it is? Thanks for posting, I wish SB would provide better info on all this.

Interesting all the comments - thanks, they help!
I won't go for the 115+ fuselage for severeal reasons. 1. I'm happy enough with the current upwind-angles of the 95+. 2. Also 90? reaching is more easy with the 95, last but not least the budget-topic. Changing Front and rear wing is already enough ;)

As I read the comments i make the following upgrade-conclusions with 95+ fuse :
- 1'100 and 330 might work ok for light wind days (255 tail probably better)
- 800/900 and 255 works very well (hello speed)
- Front wing 1000 --> rather go with 1100 or/and 800

So whatever frontwing you use - 255 works almost always (better than 330). So why SB didn't put me the 255 in the package? ;).
But it's complaining at a high level, since I'm already happy with my current gear. Still, room for upgrades is always there, beside working on the own skills most importantly.

Hey - most of this year I have been on this setup:
95 cm carbon mast
95+ fuse
1100 freeride wing
330 rear wing
150L SB freeride board.

I like this setup a lot. very stable ride and you can still play on the swell/waves. Good upwind performance and great on a reach and downwind. My cruising speed is 15-18 knots. Top speed is around 20 - 21 knots which seems fast ...

I attempted to put the 255 rear wing on - that didn't work well at all.

Anyone done a comparison between the iQ Foil 95 mast and the regular 95 mast? Does the stiffer construction on the iQ make a big difference?

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Foiler69er said..
Hey - most of this year I have been on this setup:
95 cm carbon mast
95+ fuse
1100 freeride wing
330 rear wing
150L SB freeride board.

I like this setup a lot. very stable ride and you can still play on the swell/waves. Good upwind performance and great on a reach and downwind. My cruising speed is 15-18 knots. Top speed is around 20 - 21 knots which seems fast ...

I attempted to put the 255 rear wing on - that didn't work well at all.

Hey, Foiler69er,
what is your weight and what shims are you using in this combo?

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Foiler69er said..
Hey - most of this year I have been on this setup:
95 cm carbon mast
95+ fuse
1100 freeride wing
330 rear wing
150L SB freeride board.

I like this setup a lot. very stable ride and you can still play on the swell/waves. Good upwind performance and great on a reach and downwind. My cruising speed is 15-18 knots. Top speed is around 20 - 21 knots which seems fast ...

I attempted to put the 255 rear wing on - that didn't work well at all.

Strange that adding the 255 rw didn't work.
I've used this 95 mast 1110/95+/255 on a SB freeride 125 with -0.5 or -1.0 shim and it's great.
I always use the 255 tw with the 95+ fuselage and have never used the 330 tw.

My wife has used thi setup as her foil setup all this year with 7.0m, 6.0m and 5.2m sailworks flyers
what were your feelings or experiences with that 255 that you didn't like?

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RuddeBos said..

Foiler69er said..
Hey - most of this year I have been on this setup:
95 cm carbon mast
95+ fuse
1100 freeride wing
330 rear wing
150L SB freeride board.

I like this setup a lot. very stable ride and you can still play on the swell/waves. Good upwind performance and great on a reach and downwind. My cruising speed is 15-18 knots. Top speed is around 20 - 21 knots which seems fast ...

I attempted to put the 255 rear wing on - that didn't work well at all.

Strange that adding the 255 rw didn't work.
I've used this 95 mast 1110/95+/255 on a SB freeride 125 with -0.5 or -1.0 shim and it's great.
I always use the 255 tw with the 95+ fuselage and have never used the 330 tw.

My wife has used thi setup as her foil setup all this year with 7.0m, 6.0m and 5.2m sailworks flyers
what were your feelings or experiences with that 255 that you didn't like?

That's interesting. I was using the 255 -2 rear and regardless of shim (and UJ positioning) I could not keep the nose up - to the point that is was unsailable.

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sl55 said..

Foiler69er said..
Hey - most of this year I have been on this setup:
95 cm carbon mast
95+ fuse
1100 freeride wing
330 rear wing
150L SB freeride board.

I like this setup a lot. very stable ride and you can still play on the swell/waves. Good upwind performance and great on a reach and downwind. My cruising speed is 15-18 knots. Top speed is around 20 - 21 knots which seems fast ...

I attempted to put the 255 rear wing on - that didn't work well at all.

Hey, Foiler69er,
what is your weight and what shims are you using in this combo?

Hey - I'm using the -1.5 shim with the 330 rear wing and I'm 195lbs or so.

Notice that the PLUS designation (such as 115/115+/115++ and 95/95+) does not change the length, but moves the connection point of the mast further aft, thus effectively moving the front wing further forward. You have to pay attention to this for balancing your gear.

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segler said..
Notice that the PLUS designation (such as 115/115+/115++ and 95/95+) does not change the length, but moves the connection point of the mast further aft, thus effectively moving the front wing further forward. You have to pay attention to this for balancing your gear.

If increasing the mast - front wing distance gives us more lift, what do we lose due to the shortening of the mast - back wing distance ?

Its not more lift, that takes a bigger wing. It's a different balance point which allows a larger rig without becoming back foot heavy.

As was mentioned above, it is all about the down force moment arm leverage exerted by the stabilizer. A shorter fuselage, such as 75 or 95, generally requires a bigger stabilizer like the 330. A longer fuselage, such as the 115, requires the smaller stab like the 255. This is a general rule of thumb, but some foilers have had good success with exceptions to this.

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Grantmac said..
Its not more lift, that takes a bigger wing. It's a different balance point which allows a larger rig without becoming back foot heavy.

Yeah, my bad. Makes the whole setup more front footed I assume, but the question stands, what do you lose going from a 115 to a 115+?

What you lose is leverage from the stabilizer. But you no longer need it, you're getting a more effective lift scenario from the main wing than with the 115 fuse.

The whole idea behind the + fuses is to reduce the required stabilizer angle (which would normally have a much higher AoA to give the required lift) and thus reduce drag.

You do get a bit more front footed shifting to the plus fuselage
In my experience with the 95 to 95 plus, I've had to balance my board by moving the footstraps slightly forward..increasing or reducing the AoA of the stab only adjusts the trim slightly for wind strength.
On the 95+ the fw is only 1 cm back from where the wing is on the standard 115 fuselage