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Hi is there any tips anyone can give me on controlling my foil when up I bought it for light wind use but find it slower to foil than my slingshot but once it's up it becomes to powerful
And I end up heading hard upwind with all my weight on the harnes trying to hold the nose down
I can use the -2shime which helps but kills the lightwind performance
I'm using the 115+fues and 800 front wing
Any advis would be much appreciated
Thanks

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Hi,
I had the 800 race with JP 150 and cambered free race sails. It felt all the time way too much front foot heavy. I needed more wind to get flying than I was able to fly. The only course I could handle was straight up and downwind. Then I got a 95 fuse. This was much more comfortable, but still no half wind course possible.
After two seasons I moved to foil freeride stuff and loved it.
I think it is better to start not with the race stuff.

I agree the 800 is way too fast to learn on
free ride foils the go but no one can buy any

If you're a competitive slalom or formula sailor, used to pump up on a plane with a 9 m+ sail on 8-10 knots, then the 800-115 combo could be a decent choice to start foiling on, even in light wind. Not necessarily the best choice, but doable with sufficient skills.

But if you want to use a smaller sail, or can't pump a board up to 10 knots board speed in light wind with relative ease, or have only average skills, that's not the combo to start on. Mediocre pumping skills mean that you have to give the foil a large angle of attack (e.g. a 0 shim) to get going. But once flying, the lift generated by the foil will increase a lot, and keeping the nose down will become nearly impossible. Using a smaller sail only reduces mast foot pressure, making controlled flight even harder.

I've got the 800 with a 95+ fuse, which is a lot easier to control on beam reaches than the 115+. I can use it with a -1 or -1.5 shim and smaller (5.6 or 7.0) sails, stand at the footstrap positions, and be reasonably comfortable on beam reaches. I cannot imagine controlling the same setup if the front wing would be > 10 cm further forward. But it's not a light wind setup. There is almost no lift from the foil until the board speed approaches 10 knots, and it needs at least 12-13 knots board speed for stable flight. Freeride wings like the SuperCruiser 1700 or the Infinity 84 need a few knots less, which ends up making them fun in about 2-3 knots less wind than the 800-95+ combo. But I'm a lazy and mediocre pumper and don't want to use anything larger than a 7.0 on the foil.

Any race foil on any freeride foil board will be too front foot heavy with a freeride-sized sail because the wing is further forward of the foil mast. You have to stand in front of the footstraps to balance it. You can balance it with a big heavy race sail, but not with a sail in the size range of, say, 4.0 to 7.0. Not enough mast base pressure.

That said, you can balance the race foil for 4.0 to 7.0 sails by mounting footstraps another 12 to 15 cm further forward, but no stock freeride foil boards do this.

Hi thank for you veiws
I would like to add I am experienced foiler with the sling shot infinity range and was looking to develop some cours racing skills with this starboard setup
I'm using the neil pryde v8 8m flight sail
I thought the jp135 at 85 wide would be wide enough
Has anyone got a measurement for the front strap to front foil screw distance
Thanks

85 cm is wide enough to control the foil, but will not be competitive if you enter races. According to top foil racers, even a 95 cm board does not have a chance against the 100 cm wide boards.

Your best bet is to get a shorter fuse, like the 95+, to get started with the foil. The shorter fuse will also limit your upwind and downwind angles, but chances are you can use the foot straps in their current positions. The foil behave quite different to the Infinity foils, so you may still need a few sessions to get it dialed in. Once you're comfortable, you can go back the longer fuses, although you may then also want to get a race foil board (or an old formula if you can find one).

Thanks for your help do you think the 105 + is a option I'm not looking to win races I just want to cover the longest distance possible at the best up wind down wind angels for my abilities

The 115+ is all about best angle, but it absolutely won't sail on a beam reach. The 800 isn't exactly an amazing VMG wing so together they are a bit of a mismatch.

You might try the original 115. They can be found pretty cheap and aren't quite as powerful but are just as stable.

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seaanchor said..
Thanks for your help do you think the 105 + is a option I'm not looking to win races I just want to cover the longest distance possible at the best up wind down wind angels for my abilities

I started with a formula board and an infinity 84 wing, then bought a starboard 1000 wing with the 115 plus and 95 plus fuselages. Not long ago I replaced the formula board for a free race foilboard that is 77 cm wide. It is wide enough to carry a 8.5 m sail and the 1000 wing. I then bought the 800 wing. I really like it. A very good overall wing. I mainly use it with the 115 plus fuselage and the 0 shim. I don't race so I don't need to squeeze the most upwind ability out of the wing. the 105 plus was designed for slalom racing so it should be suitable for sailing across the wind.
but if you want upwind downwind freeracing the 115 plus should be better.
moving the mast forward helps a lot. Try moving it 2-3 cm at a time when the board becomes unruly. Mark the mastrack with a sharpie to use it as a reference.

I used my Loke race with my JP135 quite a lot. That foil is similarly powered to the 115+. Straps maximum forward & mastfoot forward will make it work very well. Even with the straps a little further back and shimmed tail its very sailable. I loved the combo for the easy jibes. With regards to measurements, I never measured on my JP, but for racing I used the mastfoot at at least 115cm from the front foilbolt.

Thanks for your input guys mastfoot forwards
Is my next plan of attack

I have JP135 & 800/330/95+ foil and really like this combo for where I sail and for how I sail, which is mainly mowing the grass on flat water and gusty wind conditions. I much prefer it to my previous foil the Supercruiser. I've put my straps full forward and my mast rack 3/4 forward so I can control it on a beam reach. No doubt if I was more skilled I wouldn't need to push everything so far forward. I also prefer -1.5 to 2.0 shim as it's more controllable in the gusts. I'm less concerned about the lulls as this foil has great glide once up to speed.

I told myself not get get anymore gear until I was a competent foiler, but that's taking way too long! So what the heck I just picked up a 255 (-2) rear wing. Any tips on setting up and sailing this vs the 330 wing?

seaanchor, thanks for the info., have thought about race wings on and off, you convinced me to stick with free-ride wings! My AFS F770 wing is actually pretty easy to control in gusts with front foot pressure, F1080 definitely harder in gusts but now only using it in 8-10 knots so actually easy to control in those conditions.

I think a lot of guys used the SB 1100 freeride wing for the lighter days. Should be more easy in handling also.

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Robertos said..
I think a lot of guys used the SB 1100 freeride wing for the lighter days. Should be more easy in handling also.

At 2100 cm2 the SB 1100 is huge!, might be helpful initially, but for 8-10 knots an ~1080-1200 cm2 wing is all you really need, my weight is 86 kg and 1080 cm2 is plenty and relatively fast too.

Favorite combo at our local sail club is 135 with the old 850 front wing..seemingly short fuze and 85 mast.
2nd most used is same old foil on Starboard 125.
Mostly paired with 5.0-7.0 sails for reaching angles.

just had a week at mungo on the new SB 1100 freeride wing so so much easier to foil with
lower take off speeds a lot less wind needed stable I found my 800 wing wobbled side to side
now to learn how to put the power down

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Sandman1221 said..

Robertos said..
I think a lot of guys used the SB 1100 freeride wing for the lighter days. Should be more easy in handling also.

At 2100 cm2 the SB 1100 is huge!, might be helpful initially, but for 8-10 knots an ~1080-1200 cm2 wing is all you really need, my weight is 86 kg and 1080 cm2 is plenty and relatively fast too.

It's 1100cm2

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Grantmac said..

Sandman1221 said..

Robertos said..
I think a lot of guys used the SB 1100 freeride wing for the lighter days. Should be more easy in handling also.

At 2100 cm2 the SB 1100 is huge!, might be helpful initially, but for 8-10 knots an ~1080-1200 cm2 wing is all you really need, my weight is 86 kg and 1080 cm2 is plenty and relatively fast too.

It's 1100cm2

Oh, okay thanks Grantmac, that makes sense, did a google search and that is what I found but did not add "freeride", now I see it, so another new freeride wing very similar to my relatively old AFS F1080/F800, I am in good company!

Anyone with any experience using the 255 tail wing with 800 & 95+ fuse after using the 330? I hope to get out on the water with it soon and learn by experience, but I'm still interested in learnings from other users that I can take note of

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Stretchy said..
Anyone with any experience using the 255 tail wing with 800 & 95+ fuse after using the 330? I hope to get out on the water with it soon and learn by experience, but I'm still interested in learnings from other users that I can take note of

I've never used the 330, but using the 95+ and 255(-2) on the 900 feels very twitchy in comparison to the 115+. I imagine the larger rear wing reduces some of the twitchiness, so it's likely a bit touchier. There's a guy here that uses an 800 with the 105 evo fuse and he rides it really well. Seems like 105 is the sweet spot overall for speed and stability. I'll likely be getting one.

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aeroegnr said..

Stretchy said..
Anyone with any experience using the 255 tail wing with 800 & 95+ fuse after using the 330? I hope to get out on the water with it soon and learn by experience, but I'm still interested in learnings from other users that I can take note of

I've never used the 330, but using the 95+ and 255(-2) on the 900 feels very twitchy in comparison to the 115+. I imagine the larger rear wing reduces some of the twitchiness, so it's likely a bit touchier. There's a guy here that uses an 800 with the 105 evo fuse and he rides it really well. Seems like 105 is the sweet spot overall for speed and stability. I'll likely be getting one.

Thanks Aero. So I managed to get out for my first run with it this arvo. Wind was 9-10kts, gusts to 13-14kts.
I rigged a 6m, should have gone the 7m. Anyhow, it took a bit of pumping to get going, but once up it felt pretty good - it felt like I was in control of the foil instead of being on a runaway train. I didn't find it too twitchy, but maybe that will change in stronger winds. I hope to test that tomorrow. Peak speed today 22.5kts.
I should really have stayed with the 330 for those winds, but to be honest I don't think I lost too much bottom end. You need to build up a bit of board speed with the 800 before flying anyway - I reckon by then you have enough speed for the 255 to work

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Stretchy said..

aeroegnr said..

Stretchy said..
Anyone with any experience using the 255 tail wing with 800 & 95+ fuse after using the 330? I hope to get out on the water with it soon and learn by experience, but I'm still interested in learnings from other users that I can take note of

I've never used the 330, but using the 95+ and 255(-2) on the 900 feels very twitchy in comparison to the 115+. I imagine the larger rear wing reduces some of the twitchiness, so it's likely a bit touchier. There's a guy here that uses an 800 with the 105 evo fuse and he rides it really well. Seems like 105 is the sweet spot overall for speed and stability. I'll likely be getting one.

Thanks Aero. So I managed to get out for my first run with it this arvo. Wind was 9-10kts, gusts to 13-14kts.
I rigged a 6m, should have gone the 7m. Anyhow, it took a bit of pumping to get going, but once up it felt pretty good - it felt like I was in control of the foil instead of being on a runaway train. I didn't find it too twitchy, but maybe that will change in stronger winds. I hope to test that tomorrow. Peak speed today 22.5kts.
I should really have stayed with the 330 for those winds, but to be honest I don't think I lost too much bottom end. You need to build up a bit of board speed with the 800 before flying anyway - I reckon by then you have enough speed for the 255 to work

That's good, sounds like you're faster than me with the 900 front wing. I actually just grabbed a 105+ today (mostly for use with the 650 front) but haven't been able to use it yet.

I mostly use the 9.0 with race foils so maybe it'll feel better with the smaller sail. If you can try out a longer fuse, either 115+ or 105+, it would be interesting for you to try as well. Also more upwind/downwind power.

Also for comparison's sake, 95, 105, 115 with the 225 rear and 900 front in their covers. You can see how the 105 has a lot more tail length than the 95, which should translate into more stability without the extra forward placement of the 115+. Lift should be very similar to the 95+ but with less twichiness but I haven't ridden it yet to confirm myself.

Interesting that the 95 and 105 fuses place the front wing at basically the same distance. That means a tail wing extension is the only thing needed to convert a 95 plus fuselage into a 105 plus fuse.

Which means the 105 can use the smaller and flatter tw to go quicker

Which means the 105 can use the smaller and flatter tw to go quicker

Yes, I think a 105 fuse would be a nice addition to my kit.