It has been decided to use smaller sails in the IQ foil class for the next olympic campaign.
Senior men wil use 8m while senior woman will use a newly developed 7,3m sail.


More on :www.iqfoilclassofficial.org/_files/ugd/297cf0_bccba77349414b1292bbeb9c0d198e30.pdf

Whoa

I'm reading that. So that drops it down to the 490 mast which 92% of people voted yes for.

Looks to be predominately due to concerns about requiring heavyweight athletes. I'm currently 94kg so I like having the 9.0 (I'm no where near an olympic athlete though, hah!).

Any insights into whether they are going to change the foil setup at all? I don't think I've seen anyone using the 95+ fuse anymore. And the trend for slalom style in other formats tends to be closer to what the 105+ has. Wouldn't surprise me if they ditch the 95+ (unless the youth are using them?). The drop of the bigger sail, mast, and maybe that fuse would drop the cost significantly, or it should.

I'm a lightweight so I've always used the 8.0. While overall, this is an understandable move, it's going to have an effect on low wind locations like aeroegnr's. I wonder if this will make some move from IQ back to Open/Formula?

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Weird phrasing which suggests a translation issue:




"Israel points out that the modification of fuselages by athletes is simple; it can be folded using a machine, which can give a significant advantage to those who modify it."

I take it there has been some kind of shortening of the fuse, perhaps to increase upper end of the wind range or suitability for lighter riders? I had thought that the trend was toward longer fuses in open-class racing so why shorter for IQ (if indeed that is the correct interpretation of this concern.)

Makes sense. Will be interesting to see how much quicker they'll go with the smaller sails when the winds up, and what they'll do with the bottom end of the wind range. Bump up the minimum required wind to race?



I'm interested to know how they've been modifying fuselages (and getting away with it!?)?

a shorter fuse is easier to maneuver and probably a bit faster in slalom mode

it is interesting though, that overwhelming support for a smaller sail, and I understand why (though I'm not sure whether it will make that big a difference body weight wise). however, if adopted (they also voted for a global evaluation of the proposed equipment changes, so presumably in theory it is still possible that they decide to stick with current sizes if the evaluation isn't convincing) I wonder whether a 95 wide board is still necessary. A slightly narrower boards is probably more efficient to get going with a smaller sail. Then again, changing too many things at the same time (or at least, every four years...) might also not be a great idea.

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Subsonic said..
Makes sense. Will be interesting to see how much quicker they'll go with the smaller sails when the winds up, and what they'll do with the bottom end of the wind range. Bump up the minimum required wind to race?

will remain 1 board 1 sail, and no changes to the wind limit; you just have to pump harder...!

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bel29 said..

Subsonic said..
Makes sense. Will be interesting to see how much quicker they'll go with the smaller sails when the winds up, and what they'll do with the bottom end of the wind range. Bump up the minimum required wind to race?

will remain 1 board 1 sail, and no changes to the wind limit; you just have to pump harder...!

Will be interesting to watch the lighter wind races too. For sure, there's going to be a lot more pumping if they don't adjust the wind range for racing.


The small size sail will make a significant difference to how heavy a rider needs to be to stay efficient. I can tell you (as a smaller/lighter rider) the 8m hgo is a lot easier to handle up breeze than the 9m when the breeze starts coming up. I can't see them changing the board size at all though, they've not said anything about changing wing sizes. You still need a 95 board to control a 900 front wing. Not to mention it's olympic class. They won't alter the bigger equipment components quite as readily.

Very sensible to reduce the sail sizes. Nobody needs a 9.0 as a one size fits all foiling sail.

I think they will still need the 9.0 for the really light ****. They should be allowed two sails imo. The 8 is good when the wind gets up but doesn't have the grunt of the 9 when its patchy & light. 10-12 knots on the 9m is my favorite conditions to foil and I'm only 75 kgs.

Gonzalo Costa Hoevel clearly indicates that the reasons have to do with health issues among athletes who are forced to gain weight in order to reach the ideal IQ class weight. Everyone knows that it is easy to gain 10 kg of fat, but 10 kg of muscle mass is something completely different.The intention is probably to emphasize more on aerobic power and less on mass, like the RSX class at the time

The results of the poll are also clear:
www.iqfoilclassofficial.org/_files/ugd/297cf0_d90421b1e38943d5801c4c1cd84d1af1.pdf

Seems a bit like the 9.0 was picked to be similar to the RSX sail size. In early races, some of the heavy guys still had problems getting going with the 9.0 in light wind. Later, they discovered that heavier guys had quite an advantage in strong winds, but still could pump up in light wind with better technique and more effort. So unintentionally, the "ideal" body type changed from long and skinny, able to pump several hours a day, to heavily muscled, with pumping required in just short bursts. The change down to a smaller size partially corrects that, so that those weighing in at less than 95-100 kg still have a chance.

no doubt average weights will have to come down, and aerobic power must go up. I've seen plenty of 'big' youths getting up on foil in less wind compared to even the lighter seniors.

I wonder then if they will still make 9.0, 10.0 for formula foil. Looks like the Hyper 7 stops at 9.0, HGO at 10.0.

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bel29 said..
no doubt average weights will have to come down, and aerobic power must go up. I've seen plenty of 'big' youths getting up on foil in less wind compared to even the lighter seniors.

Wow, getting called out on seabreeze. No safe space for me here...

While a smaller sail will help, in windy races, weight still matters. This will help, imho, for lighter wind races and only if they are willing to race even if not everyone can foil through a jibe.

Also wondering why they went 8 instead of a smaller gap eg the biggest sail they could put on a 490.

As a small guy for whom this would be a plus, one thing I liked about the current sail size is the overlap between the PWA and iq fleets.

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Paducah said..

bel29 said..
no doubt average weights will have to come down, and aerobic power must go up. I've seen plenty of 'big' youths getting up on foil in less wind compared to even the lighter seniors.

Wow, getting called out on seabreeze. No safe space for me here...

lol -- I was comparing iQ senior v. iQ youth ;) besides which, I'm usually not amongst the first to get up (non-iQ 9 or 10m)

the comparison with PWA is an interesting one. gear shrinkage can be observed there too -- in terms of each board, sail and foil sizes. but *de facto* wind limits for racing have also gone up, so difficult to compare (besides which, they've given up the CR format years ago). big boys still -- and will continue to -- rule there. although in the very early days when the Olympic guys first started to show up and were still at RSX weight they were schooling the PWA boys on their own turf (I remember Japan 2019 for instance). seems like we've long past peak PWA-Olympics convergence and they will continue to diverge.

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aeroegnr said..
I wonder then if they will still make 9.0, 10.0 for formula foil. Looks like the Hyper 7 stops at 9.0, HGO at 10.0.

does formula foil still exist...?!

of course it does, but I suspect (and regret) that it will continue its path towards becoming more and more niche. few manufacturers still invest in making (let alone developing new) 100cm boards and 10.0 sails. I will certainly hold onto mine because I won't be able to get any new ones.

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bel29 said..

aeroegnr said..
I wonder then if they will still make 9.0, 10.0 for formula foil. Looks like the Hyper 7 stops at 9.0, HGO at 10.0.

does formula foil still exist...?!

of course it does, but I suspect (and regret) that it will continue its path towards becoming more and more niche. few manufacturers still invest in making (let alone developing new) 100cm boards and 10.0 sails. I will certainly hold onto mine because I won't be able to get any new ones.

Yeah I'm thinking that when my 530 breaks (3rd one) I'll probably be done and just go with the biggest thing that will fit on my 490 that is 80% and a bit more durable (currently fits my 9.5 cheetah but may just replace that with a lion when the cheetah is rags).

For course racing at 85kg (being polite) I've used my 8m 1/3 as often as BOTH the 9m and 10m sails I have. And once only because my 9m mast broke 30s before I went on the water. It will take some adapting to make it work.

FOIL

I truly hope they update the 900 foil too. It was a good design for its day, but its day has long gone.

Also thinking about the racing. the implication is that we will see less full on course races and more slalom! Suits me!
The 95kg PWA are riding 8.5m sails and 550 foils in 10 knots.
I suspect an 80kg iQ rider with 8.0m sail and 900 foil should be good in 7 knots.

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berowne said..
Also thinking about the racing. the implication is that we will see less full on course races and more slalom! Suits me!
The 95kg PWA are riding 8.5m sails and 550 foils in 10 knots.
I suspect an 80kg iQ rider with 8.0m sail and 900 foil should be good in 7 knots.

> "I truly hope they update the 900 foil too. It was a good design for its day, but its day has long gone"

Impossible. Upgrading the foil won't change anything ... plus you force all sailors to buy new equipements. It is one class design, the goal is to find the best sailors, not going faster. Bear in mind that all other sailing boat classes and models are from the 70s. Do they really need to get the best boat?

The goal of a new sail format is to match better the fitness of athetes and target a correct weight .. not forcing them to gain 10 kilos of extra muscles.

> "I suspect an 80kg iQ rider with 8.0m sail and 900 foil should be good in 7 knots."

Not sure about that, the classic 900 wing needs more power than the new thin wings .. so that's still unproved that they will gain in low wind. They will experiment it for sure to approve the change.

Also, a big point mentioned by Nicolas Goyard on some French discussion channel ... it has been approved by the IQ foil class but not yet by the world sailing. You can google translate this article if you need more info:

www.windsurfjournal.com/article,news,du-nouveau-pour-la-classe-iqfoil-en-2025,10411

Fisher-Price takeover of IQ foil.
Actual scale image of 8m sail in action:

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AmitBajpayee said..
It's great to see advancements in the IQ foil class for the next Olympic campaign! Using smaller sails, like the 8m for senior men and the newly developed 7.3m for senior women, makes a lot of sense. It not only improves performance but also promotes inclusivity in the sport. Plus, incorporating sustainable solutions like solar water heaters could be a fantastic addition, reducing the environmental impact of these events.
For more information on soalr water heater - agnisolar.com/products/solar-water-heating-system/

least obvious ai

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len024 said..

AmitBajpayee said..
It's great to see advancements in the IQ foil class for the next Olympic campaign! Using smaller sails, like the 8m for senior men and the newly developed 7.3m for senior women, makes a lot of sense. It not only improves performance but also promotes inclusivity in the sport. Plus, incorporating sustainable solutions like solar water heaters could be a fantastic addition, reducing the environmental impact of these events.
For more information on soalr water heater - agnisolar.com/products/solar-water-heating-system/

least obvious ai

Even misspelled solar... I think this is the form of AI where they have 1000 people in a room someplace in India. www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2024-04-03/the-humans-behind-amazon-s-just-walk-out-technology-are-all-over-ai

I remember discussions exactly like this 20 years ago in formula.

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Lezardo said..
Impossible. Upgrading the foil won't change anything ... plus you force all sailors to buy new equipements. It is one class design, the goal is to find the best sailors, not going faster. Bear in mind that all other sailing boat classes and models are from the 70s. Do they really need to get the best boat?

Yea, but.
For sure a smaller sail will be better but it doesn't make the issue go away as the weight needed to hold the foil down is a function of the foil as much as the sail, once up to speed. In reality the only way of having fair racing is to have variable foil and sail size relative to bodyweight and probably height, but good luck with the maths! It's the dilemma of one design, sold to everyone as fair racing but it's only true if you are in the ideal weight range. So yes the best sailor, in the ideal weight range who is lucky enough to win the finals....

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Roger303 said..


Fisher-Price takeover of IQ foil.
Actual scale image of 8m sail in action:

Yes love it!

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sheddweller said..

Lezardo said..
Impossible. Upgrading the foil won't change anything ... plus you force all sailors to buy new equipements. It is one class design, the goal is to find the best sailors, not going faster. Bear in mind that all other sailing boat classes and models are from the 70s. Do they really need to get the best boat?

Yea, but.
For sure a smaller sail will be better but it doesn't make the issue go away as the weight needed to hold the foil down is a function of the foil as much as the sail, once up to speed. In reality the only way of having fair racing is to have variable foil and sail size relative to bodyweight and probably height, but good luck with the maths! It's the dilemma of one design, sold to everyone as fair racing but it's only true if you are in the ideal weight range. So yes the best sailor, in the ideal weight range who is lucky enough to win the finals....

The current trend for weightier sailors has more to do with being able to sheet a 9m sail efficiently than controlling foil lift. Foil lift can already be dealt with in a number of ways.

trying to level the playing field through equipment differences will be far too hard to control/keep fair, practically impossible.

Changing the set sail sizes is the easiest way to steer sailors away from the KFC diet and unhealthy weights a lot of them are trying to maintain to stay competitive.

In a one design competition there will be always advanteges/disadvantages because of bodyweight. Lighter sailors will benefit from lighter winds, heavior sailors from stronger wind. But that was also the case with the 9m? sails. So from my opinion it was a good decision to reduce the sail size..

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Subsonic said..
The current trend for weightier sailors has more to do with being able to sheet a 9m sail efficiently than controlling foil lift. Foil lift can already be dealt with in a number of ways.

I doubt that. In RS-X and even the Techno class, relatively large sails were quite common, but sailors remained comparatively light, since planing ability in marginal conditions was very important. Top racers were generally light, but nevertheless perfectly capable of controlling the large sails even on the windier days.

With the foil, more speed creates more lift, so a heavier sailor will be able to go faster, all else being equal. Sure, a lighter foiler can reduce vertical lift by dipping the windward rail to increase the angle of the board, but there are limits to that. If the wind is strong enough so that the heavy foilers have the board angled at the maximum angle, then lighter foilers have no choice but to sail at a lower speed, for example by not sheeting in fully. Or maybe there is an optimal angle that's somewhat less than the maximum possible angle, and lighter sailers can foil at a higher board angle at the same speed; but then, they will have an increased risk of hitting chop with the lower board edge, which will also slow them down. Similar arguments can be made regarding parts of the foil breaching.

Another huge difference to one design fin classes is that foiling requires short and intense bursts of pumping to get up onto the foil in marginal conditions, whereas fin races often involved pumping through the entire races. Short bursts work well with "bodybuilder type" muscles, while hours of pumping on a light-wind day require the smaller but high endurance muscles of long distance runners.

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boardsurfr said..

Subsonic said..
The current trend for weightier sailors has more to do with being able to sheet a 9m sail efficiently than controlling foil lift. Foil lift can already be dealt with in a number of ways.

I doubt that. In RS-X and even the Techno class, relatively large sails were quite common, but sailors remained comparatively light, since planing ability in marginal conditions was very important. Top racers were generally light, but nevertheless perfectly capable of controlling the large sails even on the windier days.

With the foil, more speed creates more lift, so a heavier sailor will be able to go faster, all else being equal. Sure, a lighter foiler can reduce vertical lift by dipping the windward rail to increase the angle of the board, but there are limits to that. If the wind is strong enough so that the heavy foilers have the board angled at the maximum angle, then lighter foilers have no choice but to sail at a lower speed, for example by not sheeting in fully. Or maybe there is an optimal angle that's somewhat less than the maximum possible angle, and lighter sailers can foil at a higher board angle at the same speed; but then, they will have an increased risk of hitting chop with the lower board edge, which will also slow them down. Similar arguments can be made regarding parts of the foil breaching.

Another huge difference to one design fin classes is that foiling requires short and intense bursts of pumping to get up onto the foil in marginal conditions, whereas fin races often involved pumping through the entire races. Short bursts work well with "bodybuilder type" muscles, while hours of pumping on a light-wind day require the smaller but high endurance muscles of long distance runners.

An easy way to control lift is simply to change shims, and then tweaks like push the mast base forward, move the boom down, etc. Unless you get a radical, unexpected change in wind during a race you can set up your shims before going out that covers a decent wind range. Controlling the foil in 25 kts isn't so much the issue, imho, having been on the IQ in that much wind. The 9.0 is a very powerful sail, I've seen IQ guys get up on it in ridiculously low winds. I'm not going to debate what the exact number it is, I'll just say conditions that the average or even better than average foiler isn't even thinking of getting off the water and these guys are zooming. It's not so much the lift that the smaller sailors struggle with but overcoming the drag wall. A bigger sailor can hold more power and push the wall further out.

fwiw, Nico Goyard feels like the proposed changes bring down the optimum weight in the upper 80s. (Translation via google)
"Weight-wise, it should actually decrease. We are going to go from a target weight of around 93-95kg in 9m to probably 88kg in 8m "
www.windsurfing33.com/forum//viewtopic.php?p=954794#p954794