Hi everyone. First off, thanks for all the great input on posts I have made, or questions I have asked. It's greatly appreciated.

I currently am windfoiling on a Slingshot Levitator 150. Primarily with the i84. I use the i99 sometimes too. I am also wingfoiling on the Shred Sled with the same wings.

I an 52 years old, 6'4" and 220-225lbs.

I was looking into the Slingshot Phantasm 928 setup, but have been told I'd get just about as much benefit by switching to the new Neil Pryde HP series of foils. Specifically the HP19 and 23.

Is there a benefit for me to switch to Neil Pryde?

Select to expand quote

excav8ter said..
Hi everyone. First off, thanks for all the great input on posts I have made, or questions I have asked. It's greatly appreciated.

I currently am windfoiling on a Slingshot Levitator 150. Primarily with the i84. I use the i99 sometimes too. I am also wingfoiling on the Shred Sled with the same wings.

I an 52 years old, 6'4" and 220-225lbs.

I was looking into the Slingshot Phantasm 928 setup, but have been told I'd get just about as much benefit by switching to the new Neil Pryde HP series of foils. Specifically the HP19 and 23.

Is there a benefit for me to switch to Neil Pryde?

The new Pryde foils are a nice mid-aspect design. I have the older blue FoilGlide for winging and windfoiling in shallower spots and have been budgeting for some kit in the new red series.

From my observations - most of these are just stand alone and not comparing them to anything else except where noted.

Pros: Multiple heads including powerbox
Both wind and wing/surf fuses
Better engineered mast/fuse connection than SS Hoverglide
Mast compatible with new Flight kit which is supposed to be nice for freeride/freerace and better designed than previous iterations
Wings engineered to balance on fuse irrespective of size unlike the i99 on tuttle boards. From what I've seen with friends is that, ultimately,while it "works", it doesn't work well.
Mid-aspect and thinner wings which is what the world seems to be moving to from the earlier big low aspect ones.
Most parts (e.g. wings) aren't excessively expensive.

Con - shorter max alu mast length (80-82 ish). You can get it longer by using the tuttle head and then an adapter
No long carbon mast option although there is a wing/surf carbon mast.

If you are just looking for decent mostly alu kit, it's good. Not too many bells and whistles but will get the job done. Also, take a look at Starboard SuperCruiser, Fanatic, and Moses.

Select to expand quote

Paducah said..

excav8ter said..
Hi everyone. First off, thanks for all the great input on posts I have made, or questions I have asked. It's greatly appreciated.

I currently am windfoiling on a Slingshot Levitator 150. Primarily with the i84. I use the i99 sometimes too. I am also wingfoiling on the Shred Sled with the same wings.

I an 52 years old, 6'4" and 220-225lbs.

I was looking into the Slingshot Phantasm 928 setup, but have been told I'd get just about as much benefit by switching to the new Neil Pryde HP series of foils. Specifically the HP19 and 23.

Is there a benefit for me to switch to Neil Pryde?

The new Pryde foils are a nice mid-aspect design. I have the older blue FoilGlide for winging and windfoiling in shallower spots and have been budgeting for some kit in the new red series.

From my observations - most of these are just stand alone and not comparing them to anything else except where noted.

Pros: Multiple heads including powerbox
Both wind and wing/surf fuses
Better engineered mast/fuse connection than SS Hoverglide
Mast compatible with new Flight kit which is supposed to be nice for freeride/freerace and better designed than previous iterations
Wings engineered to balance on fuse irrespective of size unlike the i99 on tuttle boards. From what I've seen with friends is that, ultimately,while it "works", it doesn't work well.
Mid-aspect and thinner wings which is what the world seems to be moving to from the earlier big low aspect ones.
Most parts (e.g. wings) aren't excessively expensive.

Con - shorter max alu mast length (80-82 ish). You can get it longer by using the tuttle head and then an adapter
No long carbon mast option although there is a wing/surf carbon mast.

If you are just looking for decent mostly alu kit, it's good. Not too many bells and whistles but will get the job done. Also, take a look at Starboard SuperCruiser, Fanatic, and Moses.

The shop has the NP set up as well as the Phantasm. I believe they have the Moses, F-One, Fanatic and possibly a Starboard super cruiser too. I have loved my SS kit because it works well for me most of the time. The only time I've had an issue is wingfoiling when I get overpowered. As I get better I will probably be able to figure out how to keep the board from lifting so much. Our local wingfoiling guru thinks that the best set-up for me because I do both windfoiling and am starting to do more wingfoiling is going to be the NP. He said the weight difference is a out a pound between the Phantasm and the NP. I like the looks of the NP stuff and it's also about $1,000 less in cost, which means I can buy an extra front wing with it. I don't like the shorter mast the NP has, but I can buy the front and rear wings and the fuse separately and then buy a Project Cedrus carbon fiber mast if I want to get something like that. But then I'm back up to almost $2,000 which would basically buy the Phantasm.
I don't have time to get out much and don't believe I will ever get very good at wingfoiling like my friends. I can fly no problem, go upwind with zero issues, get up and going in 6 foot waves on Lake Michigan, but I can't yet flag the wing and surf, or jibe yet. I can jibe my windfoiling gear and flag my sail while "riding" swells and waves, but getting out through the surf is much more difficult with windfoiling gear. The other issue I have is light wind... I can bust out my windfoiling gear at 10-12 mph and have a great time. I just got a 7.0 F-One Strike CWC and am hoping that it will lower my threshold for wingfoiling a bit. I have an 8.0 Strike CWC on Pre-order so I will give that a go hopefully soon. I don't want to give up windfoiling but having all the gear to do both is a pain and pretty damn expensive.

Sorry if I ramble on.

Given the supply situation at the moment I'd say it will probably be more a case of buy what you can get.

Can you demo the Phantasm 928 next to the NP?

it's not just foil weight difference, you will feel the difference!

To be honest I dont think you'd get much out of it. I'd just hang on to the SS kit and wait till you can upgrade to something higher performance. The NP is also entry oriented.

I think the difference in takeoff between the I84 and PFI928 will be less than a knot of windspeed (speaking from experience using 1800 & 2200cm2 wings for winging). If you're aiming at early flight performance you would probably be better of with a mid-high aspect 1500-1800 wing. Power for early flight, but efficient enough to build up appearant wind and keep going in the lulls.

Just wondering, is the light wind problem you're trying to solve getting up or staying up?

What conditions are you aiming to ride at anyway? I (now 95kg) use a 5m strike with 90L (5'5) RocketWing and Phantom 1480cm2 foil (mid-high aspect) and get going in 10-12 knots. The 7m strike CWC and an efficient 1400cm2 foil should be plenty to fly happily in 10-12mph/8-10 knots.

Select to expand quote

excav8ter said..

Paducah said..

excav8ter said..
Hi everyone. First off, thanks for all the great input on posts I have made, or questions I have asked. It's greatly appreciated.

I currently am windfoiling on a Slingshot Levitator 150. Primarily with the i84. I use the i99 sometimes too. I am also wingfoiling on the Shred Sled with the same wings.

I an 52 years old, 6'4" and 220-225lbs.

I was looking into the Slingshot Phantasm 928 setup, but have been told I'd get just about as much benefit by switching to the new Neil Pryde HP series of foils. Specifically the HP19 and 23.

Is there a benefit for me to switch to Neil Pryde?

The new Pryde foils are a nice mid-aspect design. I have the older blue FoilGlide for winging and windfoiling in shallower spots and have been budgeting for some kit in the new red series.

From my observations - most of these are just stand alone and not comparing them to anything else except where noted.

Pros: Multiple heads including powerbox
Both wind and wing/surf fuses
Better engineered mast/fuse connection than SS Hoverglide
Mast compatible with new Flight kit which is supposed to be nice for freeride/freerace and better designed than previous iterations
Wings engineered to balance on fuse irrespective of size unlike the i99 on tuttle boards. From what I've seen with friends is that, ultimately,while it "works", it doesn't work well.
Mid-aspect and thinner wings which is what the world seems to be moving to from the earlier big low aspect ones.
Most parts (e.g. wings) aren't excessively expensive.

Con - shorter max alu mast length (80-82 ish). You can get it longer by using the tuttle head and then an adapter
No long carbon mast option although there is a wing/surf carbon mast.

If you are just looking for decent mostly alu kit, it's good. Not too many bells and whistles but will get the job done. Also, take a look at Starboard SuperCruiser, Fanatic, and Moses.

The shop has the NP set up as well as the Phantasm. I believe they have the Moses, F-One, Fanatic and possibly a Starboard super cruiser too. I have loved my SS kit because it works well for me most of the time. The only time I've had an issue is wingfoiling when I get overpowered. As I get better I will probably be able to figure out how to keep the board from lifting so much. Our local wingfoiling guru thinks that the best set-up for me because I do both windfoiling and am starting to do more wingfoiling is going to be the NP. He said the weight difference is a out a pound between the Phantasm and the NP. I like the looks of the NP stuff and it's also about $1,000 less in cost, which means I can buy an extra front wing with it. I don't like the shorter mast the NP has, but I can buy the front and rear wings and the fuse separately and then buy a Project Cedrus carbon fiber mast if I want to get something like that. But then I'm back up to almost $2,000 which would basically buy the Phantasm.
I don't have time to get out much and don't believe I will ever get very good at wingfoiling like my friends. I can fly no problem, go upwind with zero issues, get up and going in 6 foot waves on Lake Michigan, but I can't yet flag the wing and surf, or jibe yet. I can jibe my windfoiling gear and flag my sail while "riding" swells and waves, but getting out through the surf is much more difficult with windfoiling gear. The other issue I have is light wind... I can bust out my windfoiling gear at 10-12 mph and have a great time. I just got a 7.0 F-One Strike CWC and am hoping that it will lower my threshold for wingfoiling a bit. I have an 8.0 Strike CWC on Pre-order so I will give that a go hopefully soon. I don't want to give up windfoiling but having all the gear to do both is a pain and pretty damn expensive.

Sorry if I ramble on.

Paragraphs, my dear man, paragraphs.

Unless you are getting a shop or team rider discount, I'm seeing the Phantasm at $2600-2800 for the windfoil set up. The wing/surf set ups may be cheaper (I haven't looked up the price) because they are a different construction and not as stiff. I can't remember if anyone is using them to windfoil on.

There is a 90cm alu mast on the windfoil side for NP although not sure it's sold yet as a separate part.

Kane de Wilde (the wunderkid who designed the NP HA wings) has patterns for shims for the Prydes if you have access to a 3d printer
kdfoils.myshopify.com/products/shim-pack (link is at bottom of the page).

The bigger Strikes should definitely help your low end problem. I've read good things about them. Speaking of Kane de Wilde, do not watch the videos of him wingfoiling in very light air, it'll make you cry.

Select to expand quote

WhiteofHeart said..
To be honest I dont think you'd get much out of it. I'd just hang on to the SS kit and wait till you can upgrade to something higher performance. The NP is also entry oriented.

I have the money, that's not the issue. I'm not necessarily looking for "high performance" as I don't have the opportunities to get out as much as my buddies do. I am really looking for less drag. I have the feeling that I have to work so much to keep from over-foiling when i get over powered in big gusts. Not concerned necessarily with top speed.

Select to expand quote

CoreAS said..
Can you demo the Phantasm 928 next to the NP?

it's not just foil weight difference, you will feel the difference!

I may be able to ride them side by side on my board. They have been really good to me in that regard.

Select to expand quote

Paducah said..

excav8ter said..

Paducah said..

excav8ter said..
Hi everyone. First off, thanks for all the great input on posts I have made, or questions I have asked. It's greatly appreciated.

I currently am windfoiling on a Slingshot Levitator 150. Primarily with the i84. I use the i99 sometimes too. I am also wingfoiling on the Shred Sled with the same wings.

I an 52 years old, 6'4" and 220-225lbs.

I was looking into the Slingshot Phantasm 928 setup, but have been told I'd get just about as much benefit by switching to the new Neil Pryde HP series of foils. Specifically the HP19 and 23.

Is there a benefit for me to switch to Neil Pryde?

The new Pryde foils are a nice mid-aspect design. I have the older blue FoilGlide for winging and windfoiling in shallower spots and have been budgeting for some kit in the new red series.

From my observations - most of these are just stand alone and not comparing them to anything else except where noted.

Pros: Multiple heads including powerbox
Both wind and wing/surf fuses
Better engineered mast/fuse connection than SS Hoverglide
Mast compatible with new Flight kit which is supposed to be nice for freeride/freerace and better designed than previous iterations
Wings engineered to balance on fuse irrespective of size unlike the i99 on tuttle boards. From what I've seen with friends is that, ultimately,while it "works", it doesn't work well.
Mid-aspect and thinner wings which is what the world seems to be moving to from the earlier big low aspect ones.
Most parts (e.g. wings) aren't excessively expensive.

Con - shorter max alu mast length (80-82 ish). You can get it longer by using the tuttle head and then an adapter
No long carbon mast option although there is a wing/surf carbon mast.

If you are just looking for decent mostly alu kit, it's good. Not too many bells and whistles but will get the job done. Also, take a look at Starboard SuperCruiser, Fanatic, and Moses.

The shop has the NP set up as well as the Phantasm. I believe they have the Moses, F-One, Fanatic and possibly a Starboard super cruiser too. I have loved my SS kit because it works well for me most of the time. The only time I've had an issue is wingfoiling when I get overpowered. As I get better I will probably be able to figure out how to keep the board from lifting so much. Our local wingfoiling guru thinks that the best set-up for me because I do both windfoiling and am starting to do more wingfoiling is going to be the NP. He said the weight difference is a out a pound between the Phantasm and the NP. I like the looks of the NP stuff and it's also about $1,000 less in cost, which means I can buy an extra front wing with it. I don't like the shorter mast the NP has, but I can buy the front and rear wings and the fuse separately and then buy a Project Cedrus carbon fiber mast if I want to get something like that. But then I'm back up to almost $2,000 which would basically buy the Phantasm.
I don't have time to get out much and don't believe I will ever get very good at wingfoiling like my friends. I can fly no problem, go upwind with zero issues, get up and going in 6 foot waves on Lake Michigan, but I can't yet flag the wing and surf, or jibe yet. I can jibe my windfoiling gear and flag my sail while "riding" swells and waves, but getting out through the surf is much more difficult with windfoiling gear. The other issue I have is light wind... I can bust out my windfoiling gear at 10-12 mph and have a great time. I just got a 7.0 F-One Strike CWC and am hoping that it will lower my threshold for wingfoiling a bit. I have an 8.0 Strike CWC on Pre-order so I will give that a go hopefully soon. I don't want to give up windfoiling but having all the gear to do both is a pain and pretty damn expensive.

Sorry if I ramble on.

Paragraphs, my dear man, paragraphs.

Unless you are getting a shop or team rider discount, I'm seeing the Phantasm at $2600-2800 for the windfoil set up. The wing/surf set ups may be cheaper (I haven't looked up the price) because they are a different construction and not as stiff. I can't remember if anyone is using them to windfoil on.

There is a 90cm alu mast on the windfoil side for NP although not sure it's sold yet as a separate part.

Kane de Wilde (the wunderkid who designed the NP HA wings) has patterns for shims for the Prydes if you have access to a 3d printer
kdfoils.myshopify.com/products/shim-pack (link is at bottom of the page).

The bigger Strikes should definitely help your low end problem. I've read good things about them. Speaking of Kane de Wilde, do not watch the videos of him wingfoiling in very light air, it'll make you cry.

I am looking more for a plug and play set up. I have precious little time for this and I want to make the most of what time I have. If the NP stuff needs shims, then I'm out.

I won't tell what I can get the Phantasm for, but SS has been VERY kind to me with prices on various kit including boards. The price I was told for the Phantasm is substantially less than the 2600-2800 you found.

Keep in mind that I want the ability to windfoil AND wingfoil on the same setup.

Select to expand quote

excav8ter said..

Paducah said..

excav8ter said..

Paducah said..

excav8ter said..
Hi everyone. First off, thanks for all the great input on posts I have made, or questions I have asked. It's greatly appreciated.

I currently am windfoiling on a Slingshot Levitator 150. Primarily with the i84. I use the i99 sometimes too. I am also wingfoiling on the Shred Sled with the same wings.

I an 52 years old, 6'4" and 220-225lbs.

I was looking into the Slingshot Phantasm 928 setup, but have been told I'd get just about as much benefit by switching to the new Neil Pryde HP series of foils. Specifically the HP19 and 23.

Is there a benefit for me to switch to Neil Pryde?

The new Pryde foils are a nice mid-aspect design. I have the older blue FoilGlide for winging and windfoiling in shallower spots and have been budgeting for some kit in the new red series.

From my observations - most of these are just stand alone and not comparing them to anything else except where noted.

Pros: Multiple heads including powerbox
Both wind and wing/surf fuses
Better engineered mast/fuse connection than SS Hoverglide
Mast compatible with new Flight kit which is supposed to be nice for freeride/freerace and better designed than previous iterations
Wings engineered to balance on fuse irrespective of size unlike the i99 on tuttle boards. From what I've seen with friends is that, ultimately,while it "works", it doesn't work well.
Mid-aspect and thinner wings which is what the world seems to be moving to from the earlier big low aspect ones.
Most parts (e.g. wings) aren't excessively expensive.

Con - shorter max alu mast length (80-82 ish). You can get it longer by using the tuttle head and then an adapter
No long carbon mast option although there is a wing/surf carbon mast.

If you are just looking for decent mostly alu kit, it's good. Not too many bells and whistles but will get the job done. Also, take a look at Starboard SuperCruiser, Fanatic, and Moses.

The shop has the NP set up as well as the Phantasm. I believe they have the Moses, F-One, Fanatic and possibly a Starboard super cruiser too. I have loved my SS kit because it works well for me most of the time. The only time I've had an issue is wingfoiling when I get overpowered. As I get better I will probably be able to figure out how to keep the board from lifting so much. Our local wingfoiling guru thinks that the best set-up for me because I do both windfoiling and am starting to do more wingfoiling is going to be the NP. He said the weight difference is a out a pound between the Phantasm and the NP. I like the looks of the NP stuff and it's also about $1,000 less in cost, which means I can buy an extra front wing with it. I don't like the shorter mast the NP has, but I can buy the front and rear wings and the fuse separately and then buy a Project Cedrus carbon fiber mast if I want to get something like that. But then I'm back up to almost $2,000 which would basically buy the Phantasm.
I don't have time to get out much and don't believe I will ever get very good at wingfoiling like my friends. I can fly no problem, go upwind with zero issues, get up and going in 6 foot waves on Lake Michigan, but I can't yet flag the wing and surf, or jibe yet. I can jibe my windfoiling gear and flag my sail while "riding" swells and waves, but getting out through the surf is much more difficult with windfoiling gear. The other issue I have is light wind... I can bust out my windfoiling gear at 10-12 mph and have a great time. I just got a 7.0 F-One Strike CWC and am hoping that it will lower my threshold for wingfoiling a bit. I have an 8.0 Strike CWC on Pre-order so I will give that a go hopefully soon. I don't want to give up windfoiling but having all the gear to do both is a pain and pretty damn expensive.

Sorry if I ramble on.

Paragraphs, my dear man, paragraphs.

Unless you are getting a shop or team rider discount, I'm seeing the Phantasm at $2600-2800 for the windfoil set up. The wing/surf set ups may be cheaper (I haven't looked up the price) because they are a different construction and not as stiff. I can't remember if anyone is using them to windfoil on.

There is a 90cm alu mast on the windfoil side for NP although not sure it's sold yet as a separate part.

Kane de Wilde (the wunderkid who designed the NP HA wings) has patterns for shims for the Prydes if you have access to a 3d printer
kdfoils.myshopify.com/products/shim-pack (link is at bottom of the page).

The bigger Strikes should definitely help your low end problem. I've read good things about them. Speaking of Kane de Wilde, do not watch the videos of him wingfoiling in very light air, it'll make you cry.

I am looking more for a plug and play set up. I have precious little time for this and I want to make the most of what time I have. If the NP stuff needs shims, then I'm out.

I won't tell what I can get the Phantasm for, but SS has been VERY kind to me with prices on various kit including boards. The price I was told for the Phantasm is substantially less than the 2600-2800 you found.

Keep in mind that I want the ability to windfoil AND wingfoil on the same setup.

NP doesn't need shims afaik (and I haven't needed them on my brief time on the kit) but being able to tune stuff is nice. For example, some of us are bigger, some smaller. These are aftermarket. You had mentioned dealing with being overpowered on the wing. Taking a bit of angle off the stab can help in those situations. It's an option, not mandatory. Even if it doesn't apply to you, it might help someone else.

If you are able to get a good deal on the Phantasm, I'm happy for you. My comments are aimed at most folks who have to pay full freight.

Select to expand quote

excav8ter said..

WhiteofHeart said..
To be honest I dont think you'd get much out of it. I'd just hang on to the SS kit and wait till you can upgrade to something higher performance. The NP is also entry oriented.

I have the money, that's not the issue. I'm not necessarily looking for "high performance" as I don't have the opportunities to get out as much as my buddies do. I am really looking for less drag. I have the feeling that I have to work so much to keep from over-foiling when i get over powered in big gusts. Not concerned necessarily with top speed.

All your gear choices point to you trying to get the maximum out of light airs, ofcourse that comes with drawbacks with regards to handling gusts. I think you just need a flatter / more high aspect (& possibly smaller) front wing. I dont think NP is gonna do it for you, but the PTM 926 seems like the wing you need to get the performance up! I think its strange SS didnt go for a PTMish wing in the 1400-1500 range, that would be the perfect wing for you I think.

With regards to Phantasm wing selection, the first round of wing options is just the tip of the ice berg!

Given the global situation get whatever Phantasm you can now and then build on it...

Select to expand quote

WhiteofHeart said..

excav8ter said..

WhiteofHeart said..
To be honest I dont think you'd get much out of it. I'd just hang on to the SS kit and wait till you can upgrade to something higher performance. The NP is also entry oriented.

I have the money, that's not the issue. I'm not necessarily looking for "high performance" as I don't have the opportunities to get out as much as my buddies do. I am really looking for less drag. I have the feeling that I have to work so much to keep from over-foiling when i get over powered in big gusts. Not concerned necessarily with top speed.

All your gear choices point to you trying to get the maximum out of light airs, ofcourse that comes with drawbacks with regards to handling gusts. I think you just need a flatter / more high aspect (& possibly smaller) front wing. I dont think NP is gonna do it for you, but the PTM 926 seems like the wing you need to get the performance up! I think its strange SS didnt go for a PTMish wing in the 1400-1500 range, that would be the perfect wing for you I think.

You're not wrong about wanting lighter wind performance. I'd say when I get out in stronger wind, it's 30mph or less. Like 14-26, 20-30 or something like that. Rarely do we have a "steady" wind. I'd say the bulk of my current foiling is windfoiling and mostly in the 10-20mph range. When it gets above 20 consistently I have been trying to wingfoil. I'd love to be wingfoiling around 12+ mph which is why I plan to add the F-One Strike 8.0 to my gear. Hopefully that will help get my threshold down a bit. Ultimately I'd like to be only wingfoiling so I could sell off the windfoiling gear I have amassed.

Let's say I went with the Phantasm 928.... are there other wings coming that I could grow in to? If they had something close to the i84 in sq. cm. and higher aspect, that would be ideal for me.. Top speed is not a priority. Good handling, and control are more a priority for me.

Select to expand quote

excav8ter said..

WhiteofHeart said..

excav8ter said..

WhiteofHeart said..
To be honest I dont think you'd get much out of it. I'd just hang on to the SS kit and wait till you can upgrade to something higher performance. The NP is also entry oriented.

I have the money, that's not the issue. I'm not necessarily looking for "high performance" as I don't have the opportunities to get out as much as my buddies do. I am really looking for less drag. I have the feeling that I have to work so much to keep from over-foiling when i get over powered in big gusts. Not concerned necessarily with top speed.

All your gear choices point to you trying to get the maximum out of light airs, ofcourse that comes with drawbacks with regards to handling gusts. I think you just need a flatter / more high aspect (& possibly smaller) front wing. I dont think NP is gonna do it for you, but the PTM 926 seems like the wing you need to get the performance up! I think its strange SS didnt go for a PTMish wing in the 1400-1500 range, that would be the perfect wing for you I think.

You're not wrong about wanting lighter wind performance. I'd say when I get out in stronger wind, it's 30mph or less. Like 14-26, 20-30 or something like that. Rarely do we have a "steady" wind. I'd say the bulk of my current foiling is windfoiling and mostly in the 10-20mph range. When it gets above 20 consistently I have been trying to wingfoil. I'd love to be wingfoiling around 12+ mph which is why I plan to add the F-One Strike 8.0 to my gear. Hopefully that will help get my threshold down a bit. Ultimately I'd like to be only wingfoiling so I could sell off the windfoiling gear I have amassed.

Let's say I went with the Phantasm 928.... are there other wings coming that I could grow in to? If they had something close to the i84 in sq. cm. and higher aspect, that would be ideal for me.. Top speed is not a priority. Good handling, and control are more a priority for me.

I would say the PTI 926 is the closest to the i84 in terms of stall speed etc. but the 926 is much quicker upwind and off the wind, naturally being higher aspect wing...also stiffer carbon mast versus alu mast.

The first day I tested it it was 13-16+ mph and had absolutely no issue getting it to pump onto the foil, however that's in steady wind.

The closest right now (more phantasm wings are coming).

PFI 928 = i99
PTI 926 = i84
PFI 730 = i76

I do have to say this! its not just the front wing, its the complete package...the mast, fuse, rear wing its ALL completely different you cannot equally compare the HG with the Phantasm.

The Phantasm is higher performance free foil, as we know it was in R&D for 2 years!

Select to expand quote

CoreAS said..

excav8ter said..

WhiteofHeart said..

excav8ter said..

WhiteofHeart said..
To be honest I dont think you'd get much out of it. I'd just hang on to the SS kit and wait till you can upgrade to something higher performance. The NP is also entry oriented.

I have the money, that's not the issue. I'm not necessarily looking for "high performance" as I don't have the opportunities to get out as much as my buddies do. I am really looking for less drag. I have the feeling that I have to work so much to keep from over-foiling when i get over powered in big gusts. Not concerned necessarily with top speed.

All your gear choices point to you trying to get the maximum out of light airs, ofcourse that comes with drawbacks with regards to handling gusts. I think you just need a flatter / more high aspect (& possibly smaller) front wing. I dont think NP is gonna do it for you, but the PTM 926 seems like the wing you need to get the performance up! I think its strange SS didnt go for a PTMish wing in the 1400-1500 range, that would be the perfect wing for you I think.

You're not wrong about wanting lighter wind performance. I'd say when I get out in stronger wind, it's 30mph or less. Like 14-26, 20-30 or something like that. Rarely do we have a "steady" wind. I'd say the bulk of my current foiling is windfoiling and mostly in the 10-20mph range. When it gets above 20 consistently I have been trying to wingfoil. I'd love to be wingfoiling around 12+ mph which is why I plan to add the F-One Strike 8.0 to my gear. Hopefully that will help get my threshold down a bit. Ultimately I'd like to be only wingfoiling so I could sell off the windfoiling gear I have amassed.

Let's say I went with the Phantasm 928.... are there other wings coming that I could grow in to? If they had something close to the i84 in sq. cm. and higher aspect, that would be ideal for me.. Top speed is not a priority. Good handling, and control are more a priority for me.

I would say the PTI 926 is the closest to the i84 in terms of stall speed etc. but the 926 is much quicker upwind and off the wind, naturally being higher aspect wing...also stiffer carbon mast versus alu mast.

The first day I tested it it was 13-16+ mph and had absolutely no issue getting it to pump onto the foil, however that's in steady wind.

The closest right now (more phantasm wings are coming).

PFI 928 = i99
PTI 926 = i84
PFI 730 = i76

I do have to say this! its not just the front wing, its the complete package...the mast, fuse, rear wing its ALL completely different you cannot equally compare the HG with the Phantasm.

The Phantasm is higher performance free foil, as we know it was in R&D for 2 years!

Love it! So for a combination of windfoiling AND wingfoiling you feel this would be a good set up for a beginner to intermediate sailor?

Select to expand quote

excav8ter said..

CoreAS said..

excav8ter said..

WhiteofHeart said..

excav8ter said..

WhiteofHeart said..
To be honest I dont think you'd get much out of it. I'd just hang on to the SS kit and wait till you can upgrade to something higher performance. The NP is also entry oriented.

I have the money, that's not the issue. I'm not necessarily looking for "high performance" as I don't have the opportunities to get out as much as my buddies do. I am really looking for less drag. I have the feeling that I have to work so much to keep from over-foiling when i get over powered in big gusts. Not concerned necessarily with top speed.

All your gear choices point to you trying to get the maximum out of light airs, ofcourse that comes with drawbacks with regards to handling gusts. I think you just need a flatter / more high aspect (& possibly smaller) front wing. I dont think NP is gonna do it for you, but the PTM 926 seems like the wing you need to get the performance up! I think its strange SS didnt go for a PTMish wing in the 1400-1500 range, that would be the perfect wing for you I think.

You're not wrong about wanting lighter wind performance. I'd say when I get out in stronger wind, it's 30mph or less. Like 14-26, 20-30 or something like that. Rarely do we have a "steady" wind. I'd say the bulk of my current foiling is windfoiling and mostly in the 10-20mph range. When it gets above 20 consistently I have been trying to wingfoil. I'd love to be wingfoiling around 12+ mph which is why I plan to add the F-One Strike 8.0 to my gear. Hopefully that will help get my threshold down a bit. Ultimately I'd like to be only wingfoiling so I could sell off the windfoiling gear I have amassed.

Let's say I went with the Phantasm 928.... are there other wings coming that I could grow in to? If they had something close to the i84 in sq. cm. and higher aspect, that would be ideal for me.. Top speed is not a priority. Good handling, and control are more a priority for me.

I would say the PTI 926 is the closest to the i84 in terms of stall speed etc. but the 926 is much quicker upwind and off the wind, naturally being higher aspect wing...also stiffer carbon mast versus alu mast.

The first day I tested it it was 13-16+ mph and had absolutely no issue getting it to pump onto the foil, however that's in steady wind.

The closest right now (more phantasm wings are coming).

PFI 928 = i99
PTI 926 = i84
PFI 730 = i76

I do have to say this! its not just the front wing, its the complete package...the mast, fuse, rear wing its ALL completely different you cannot equally compare the HG with the Phantasm.

The Phantasm is higher performance free foil, as we know it was in R&D for 2 years!

Love it! So for a combination of windfoiling AND wingfoiling you feel this would be a good set up for a beginner to intermediate sailor?

From a coaching perspective I say get good fundamentals down with the HG and transition to Phantasm. I really don't think beginners would appreciate the foil feedback right away, the 926 reacts to foot pressure quicker than the HG/LA wings

Select to expand quote

CoreAS said..

excav8ter said..

CoreAS said..

excav8ter said..

WhiteofHeart said..

excav8ter said..

WhiteofHeart said..
To be honest I dont think you'd get much out of it. I'd just hang on to the SS kit and wait till you can upgrade to something higher performance. The NP is also entry oriented.

I have the money, that's not the issue. I'm not necessarily looking for "high performance" as I don't have the opportunities to get out as much as my buddies do. I am really looking for less drag. I have the feeling that I have to work so much to keep from over-foiling when i get over powered in big gusts. Not concerned necessarily with top speed.

All your gear choices point to you trying to get the maximum out of light airs, ofcourse that comes with drawbacks with regards to handling gusts. I think you just need a flatter / more high aspect (& possibly smaller) front wing. I dont think NP is gonna do it for you, but the PTM 926 seems like the wing you need to get the performance up! I think its strange SS didnt go for a PTMish wing in the 1400-1500 range, that would be the perfect wing for you I think.

You're not wrong about wanting lighter wind performance. I'd say when I get out in stronger wind, it's 30mph or less. Like 14-26, 20-30 or something like that. Rarely do we have a "steady" wind. I'd say the bulk of my current foiling is windfoiling and mostly in the 10-20mph range. When it gets above 20 consistently I have been trying to wingfoil. I'd love to be wingfoiling around 12+ mph which is why I plan to add the F-One Strike 8.0 to my gear. Hopefully that will help get my threshold down a bit. Ultimately I'd like to be only wingfoiling so I could sell off the windfoiling gear I have amassed.

Let's say I went with the Phantasm 928.... are there other wings coming that I could grow in to? If they had something close to the i84 in sq. cm. and higher aspect, that would be ideal for me.. Top speed is not a priority. Good handling, and control are more a priority for me.

I would say the PTI 926 is the closest to the i84 in terms of stall speed etc. but the 926 is much quicker upwind and off the wind, naturally being higher aspect wing...also stiffer carbon mast versus alu mast.

The first day I tested it it was 13-16+ mph and had absolutely no issue getting it to pump onto the foil, however that's in steady wind.

The closest right now (more phantasm wings are coming).

PFI 928 = i99
PTI 926 = i84
PFI 730 = i76

I do have to say this! its not just the front wing, its the complete package...the mast, fuse, rear wing its ALL completely different you cannot equally compare the HG with the Phantasm.

The Phantasm is higher performance free foil, as we know it was in R&D for 2 years!

Love it! So for a combination of windfoiling AND wingfoiling you feel this would be a good set up for a beginner to intermediate sailor?

From a coaching perspective I say get good fundamentals down with the HG and transition to Phantasm. I really don't think beginners would appreciate the foil feedback right away, the 926 reacts to foot pressure quicker than the HG/LA wings

I've called myself a beginner because I don't want to over sell my skills. I can maintain consistent flight for miles, handle riding in the short period waves on Lake Michigan in waves as big as 6 or 7 feet. Even ride a few of them. My jibes need work, but I can foil all the way around but fall off foil with the sail flip. When I get out on Lake Michigan, it's not uncommon for me to get 30+ miles in a session.

I can also wingfoil fairly well in rough water, but can't jibe yet. No problem going up wind or down wind either.

The first Phantasm I'd get is the PFI 928 and then see where I go from there, but if it's too advanced for me, I will continue with my Hoverglide wings and wait a bit.

Select to expand quote

CoreAS said..

excav8ter said..

CoreAS said..

excav8ter said..

WhiteofHeart said..

excav8ter said..

WhiteofHeart said..
To be honest I dont think you'd get much out of it. I'd just hang on to the SS kit and wait till you can upgrade to something higher performance. The NP is also entry oriented.

I have the money, that's not the issue. I'm not necessarily looking for "high performance" as I don't have the opportunities to get out as much as my buddies do. I am really looking for less drag. I have the feeling that I have to work so much to keep from over-foiling when i get over powered in big gusts. Not concerned necessarily with top speed.

All your gear choices point to you trying to get the maximum out of light airs, ofcourse that comes with drawbacks with regards to handling gusts. I think you just need a flatter / more high aspect (& possibly smaller) front wing. I dont think NP is gonna do it for you, but the PTM 926 seems like the wing you need to get the performance up! I think its strange SS didnt go for a PTMish wing in the 1400-1500 range, that would be the perfect wing for you I think.

You're not wrong about wanting lighter wind performance. I'd say when I get out in stronger wind, it's 30mph or less. Like 14-26, 20-30 or something like that. Rarely do we have a "steady" wind. I'd say the bulk of my current foiling is windfoiling and mostly in the 10-20mph range. When it gets above 20 consistently I have been trying to wingfoil. I'd love to be wingfoiling around 12+ mph which is why I plan to add the F-One Strike 8.0 to my gear. Hopefully that will help get my threshold down a bit. Ultimately I'd like to be only wingfoiling so I could sell off the windfoiling gear I have amassed.

Let's say I went with the Phantasm 928.... are there other wings coming that I could grow in to? If they had something close to the i84 in sq. cm. and higher aspect, that would be ideal for me.. Top speed is not a priority. Good handling, and control are more a priority for me.

I would say the PTI 926 is the closest to the i84 in terms of stall speed etc. but the 926 is much quicker upwind and off the wind, naturally being higher aspect wing...also stiffer carbon mast versus alu mast.

The first day I tested it it was 13-16+ mph and had absolutely no issue getting it to pump onto the foil, however that's in steady wind.

The closest right now (more phantasm wings are coming).

PFI 928 = i99
PTI 926 = i84
PFI 730 = i76

I do have to say this! its not just the front wing, its the complete package...the mast, fuse, rear wing its ALL completely different you cannot equally compare the HG with the Phantasm.

The Phantasm is higher performance free foil, as we know it was in R&D for 2 years!

Love it! So for a combination of windfoiling AND wingfoiling you feel this would be a good set up for a beginner to intermediate sailor?

From a coaching perspective I say get good fundamentals down with the HG and transition to Phantasm. I really don't think beginners would appreciate the foil feedback right away, the 926 reacts to foot pressure quicker than the HG/LA wings

I've called myself a beginner because I don't want to over sell my skills. I can maintain consistent flight for miles, handle riding in the short period waves on Lake Michigan in waves as big as 6 or 7 feet. Even ride a few of them. My jibes need work, but I can foil all the way around but fall off foil with the sail flip. When I get out on Lake Michigan, it's not uncommon for me to get 30+ miles in a session.

I can also wingfoil fairly well in rough water, but can't jibe yet. No problem going up wind or down wind either.

The first Phantasm I'd get is the PFI 928 and then see where I go from there, but if it's too advanced for me, I will continue with my Hoverglide wings and wait a bit.

I'd be looking at Naish, especially if I have a board with a 4 bolt mount. Their c30 mast is apparently excellent for barely more than an aluminum.

Well, after much deliberation and talking to different people with foil knowledge, I decided to go with an Axis foil set up. went with their 83cm (?) Mast. Short fuse 370 stabilizer and the BCS 1060 front foil. Picking it up Saturday morning.