One month later , any news ? if built in Italy considering their problems with Coronavirus are we better to forget for this year ?

From Kiteforum
"We are waiting for the factory to return from the Coronavirus break to finalize the Phantasm development. We are close"

Select to expand quote

kiter49 said..
One month later , any news ? if built in Italy considering their problems with Coronavirus are we better to forget for this year ?

Buy a Moses, it is available now ...

Moses don't make any pedestal carbon masts for windfoiling , so I need to get an adapter , this is what bothers me . I might end up with one anyway but this is one more part to get loose .

Select to expand quote

airsail said..
From Kiteforum
"We are waiting for the factory to return from the Coronavirus break to finalize the Phantasm development. We are close"

Thanks for the information Airsail .

Select to expand quote

airsail said..
From Kiteforum
"We are waiting for the factory to return from the Coronavirus break to finalize the Phantasm development. We are close"

Interesting, factories have been closed in a some locations in Italy for just a week. Do we know which factory is building Slingshot now?

Maybe a factory in China?

Select to expand quote

airsail said..
From Kiteforum
"We are waiting for the factory to return from the Coronavirus break to finalize the Phantasm development. We are close"

Pure lip service from a nobody.
kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=196&t=2405261&start=20

Select to expand quote

Gwarn said..

airsail said..
From Kiteforum
"We are waiting for the factory to return from the Coronavirus break to finalize the Phantasm development. We are close"

Pure lip service from a nobody.
kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=196&t=2405261&start=20

The Web of a million lies!

Select to expand quote

baldy123 said..
That's a lot of new wing options! Where to start?

The new wings are very good.PFH and PFI are particularly interesting. I hope they will be stable as infiniti. not a shovel at last. When they will be who knows?

Select to expand quote

AlexF said..
Maybe a factory in China?

I also think China .

Orange tips are fishes teasers , I think this is a very bad idea .

I think you will find that's an old photo.
That mast has green writing on witch is from 2 seasons ago. Tony made some prototypes for his on use.....
The release date is still unknown even to a major Slingshot junkie like myself.

Select to expand quote

AlexF said..
Two details of the Phantasm i wonder about:
1. How can they get an extra of 19,5 cm of adjustment range out oft the AMP base? I guess it's more like 10 cm against a standard plate.
2. The mastposition relative to the the front wing is quite forward, so the foil seems to need a positioning a little more foward than other windfoils do to get the wing inbetween the front and back foot. Like position B on the SS Alu foils. This could be tricky especially for users of the pedestal mast.
Also a little more yaw sensitive.

Regarding 1. Isnt it because they have a much longer base with many more connection holes?

Select to expand quote

thedoor said..

AlexF said..
Two details of the Phantasm i wonder about:
1. How can they get an extra of 19,5 cm of adjustment range out oft the AMP base? I guess it's more like 10 cm against a standard plate.
2. The mastposition relative to the the front wing is quite forward, so the foil seems to need a positioning a little more foward than other windfoils do to get the wing inbetween the front and back foot. Like position B on the SS Alu foils. This could be tricky especially for users of the pedestal mast.
Also a little more yaw sensitive.

Regarding 1. Isnt it because they have a much longer base with many more connection holes?

Yes, but How I look at it, it should be only 10 cm, front hole to back hole.

Select to expand quote

AlexF said..

thedoor said..

AlexF said..
Two details of the Phantasm i wonder about:
1. How can they get an extra of 19,5 cm of adjustment range out oft the AMP base? I guess it's more like 10 cm against a standard plate.
2. The mastposition relative to the the front wing is quite forward, so the foil seems to need a positioning a little more foward than other windfoils do to get the wing inbetween the front and back foot. Like position B on the SS Alu foils. This could be tricky especially for users of the pedestal mast.
Also a little more yaw sensitive.

Regarding 1. Isnt it because they have a much longer base with many more connection holes?

Yes, but How I look at it, it should be only 10 cm, front hole to back hole.

In the pdf they say "huge 19cm range, over twice the fore and aft adjustment than the competition", so yeah, we're talking about 10cm additional range.

There's a lot of crap in the pdf too, like the competition only using 2 screws for the mast fuselage connection (i think there's only 2 brands left which do it that way currently). The pdf also makes it seem like they're very original using more than 3 screw to attach the wings to the fuselage.

Someone higher up in the comments said they heard it would be the stiffest mast on the market, well, I dont believe they are going to make the stiffest mast on the market, thats just not possible for the price. The best masts on the market are made with high amounts of high module M40J carbon and thats just very expensive stuff. (The mast will ofcourse be stiff enough, no questioning that, but the stiffest... mwahhh...) Why would you anyway if you're not focussing on racing? The 12K carbon they're talking about is one of the cheapest and heaviest available, very high tensile strength but not high modulus like the pdf claims.. The building process seems interesting and might make a difference though.

Regarding the frontwing position, I think that will work out. It happens a lot those kind of renders in a pdf aren't representative of the final product.

I have to say I'm for now gonna write most of it off as marketing mumbo jumbo until I get a chance to try, nevertheless its cool looking stuff and knowing slingshot will work very well for its intended use! I just dont understand the need for exaggerating marketing mumbo jumbo if you've created product which is probably very good in itself.

I guess they fear loosing market shares in the carbon foil market, so try to tease their clients, esp. current heavy metal Slingshot users thinking about upgrading to some lighter stuff.
Guys like me, whom they allready lost to Moses.
Alex

Select to expand quote

AlexF said..

thedoor said..

AlexF said..
Two details of the Phantasm i wonder about:
1. How can they get an extra of 19,5 cm of adjustment range out oft the AMP base? I guess it's more like 10 cm against a standard plate.
2. The mastposition relative to the the front wing is quite forward, so the foil seems to need a positioning a little more foward than other windfoils do to get the wing inbetween the front and back foot. Like position B on the SS Alu foils. This could be tricky especially for users of the pedestal mast.
Also a little more yaw sensitive.

Regarding 1. Isnt it because they have a much longer base with many more connection holes?

Yes, but How I look at it, it should be only 10 cm, front hole to back hole.

I will take your word for it.

The theory of STIFFER windfoil masts parallels the development of windsurf fins.
Too stiff is no good. Too soft is no good.
Good is correct flex per load, rider weight, preference, and need.

Select to expand quote

LeeD said..
The theory of STIFFER windfoil masts parallels the development of windsurf fins.
Too stiff is no good. Too soft is no good.
Good is correct flex per load, rider weight, preference, and need.

Curious as to what case where the mast is too stiff...

Good question!
Rough ride.
Foil mast delam.
More force transmitted to board..and rider.
Less windrange.

Select to expand quote

LeeD said..
Good question!
Rough ride.
Foil mast delam.
More force transmitted to board..and rider.
Less windrange.

Don't take this the wrong way but why do you keep giving definitive answers to questions you obviously do not have that much knowledge about? I see you do it in a lot of threads and while there's nothing 'wrong' with it per say, in threads pertaining to foil setup and use it can lead to people getting the wrong information. It's hard enough to learn/make the right decisions on this sort of stuff when you have the right information! I'm all for open discussion but it might be helpful to be a bit more circumspect in your conclusions?

Sat around talking to Zaicheck with his 2 windsurf team riders.
Been around the Formula scene since '01.
One of the original F-4 fin makers is a bud and former co-worker.
Sat around listening to the top windfoil racer in the US talk about his ideas in racing windfoil masts.
But if you don't want to learn anything...go right on shutting your eyes.

And yes, I'm a grating, arrogant know it all.
But so what?
You guys are looking for information.
You are NOT looking for a future best friend.
So glean what you want from my comments, I don't care. But check the facts before you just shoot your mouths off.

Why don't you care though, aren't you trying to help people or are you just bored? It's why I suggested maybe being more cautious with flat out declarations of fact in most of your posts? I reckon the solution is a LeeD sub forum, we ask questions, you answer, hilarity would ensue.

Apologies for the thread derail, lock down has made me allergic to potato's.

Select to expand quote

AlexF said..
I guess they fear loosing market shares in the carbon foil market, so try to tease their clients, esp. current heavy metal Slingshot users thinking about upgrading to some lighter stuff. Guys like me, whom they allready lost to Moses.
Alex

Quite a few unsubstantiated comments on these threads about "upgrading" Slingshot Hover Glide/Infinity wings to other brands' carbon foils.
Lighter, shinier, more expensive foils are available but does that get you a performance upgrade?
Perhaps it depends on the conditions you're foiling in.

Our group of 8 regular ocean Slingshot riders here in Perth are stoked with our foils for chasing bumps, carving all size swells downwind, wave-riding, dead-easy gybing and flying at good angles and speed upwind.
We're out in winds of 10-30 knots - collectively around 2,000 sessions.

The Hover Glide/Infinity 76 combo is heavier than a carbon foil but that's not necessarily a bad thing.
The weight of the 76 front wing means it's tough - bounced off reefs plenty of times.
The aluminum mast although heavier than a carbon mast is probably stiffer and super-stable in big swells downwind or cranking through a gybe at full power. Foil weight is not noticeable when flying in ocean swells.
Masts and wings get pretty scratched and dinged - not sure it makes sense to pay $$$ for a shiny carbon setup.

Haven't seen any obvious upgrades for the Infinity 76 either at our beach or on videos that would work for us. Even less so for the Infinity 65 - that wing is next-level

It's our skills that always need upgrading - not our foils


Today's tracks - W105, 76, 5m
SSW 12-15 knots, super-fun small 0.5-1m windswells


Jonah

It was not the performance of the Infinity, but the schlepping.
Around europe, esp. at the wavy spots, you can have quite some distance to walk to the beach.
It matters if you have a 6 kg or 3,5 kg foil to handle.

Alex

Select to expand quote

azymuth said..

AlexF said..
I guess they fear loosing market shares in the carbon foil market, so try to tease their clients, esp. current heavy metal Slingshot users thinking about upgrading to some lighter stuff. Guys like me, whom they allready lost to Moses.
Alex

Quite a few unsubstantiated comments on these threads about "upgrading" Slingshot Hover Glide/Infinity wings to other brands' carbon foils.
Lighter, shinier, more expensive foils are available but does that get you a performance upgrade?
Perhaps it depends on the conditions you're foiling in.

Our group of 8 regular ocean Slingshot riders here in Perth are stoked with our foils for chasing bumps, carving all size swells downwind, wave-riding, dead-easy gybing and flying at good angles and speed upwind.
We're out in winds of 10-30 knots - collectively around 2,000 sessions.

The Hover Glide/Infinity 76 combo is heavier than a carbon foil but that's not necessarily a bad thing.
The weight of the 76 front wing means it's tough - bounced off reefs plenty of times.
The aluminum mast although heavier than a carbon mast is probably stiffer and super-stable in big swells downwind or cranking through a gybe at full power. Foil weight is not noticeable when flying in ocean swells.
Masts and wings get pretty scratched and dinged - not sure it makes sense to pay $$$ for a shiny carbon setup.

Haven't seen any obvious upgrades for the Infinity 76 either at our beach or on videos that would work for us. Even less so for the Infinity 65 - that wing is next-level

It's our skills that always need upgrading - not our foils


Today's tracks - W105, 76, 5m
SSW 12-15 knots, super-fun small 0.5-1m windswells


Jonah

Agree. I think slingshot hit it out of the park with the infinity series and the modularity of the hoverglide system allowed many of us to use the infinity wing with minimal additional cost.

Yeah if you have the money and want to drop a few kgs, go for it but I dont think three kilos is going to alter how I schlep my kit around.

Select to expand quote

LeeD said..
The theory of STIFFER windfoil masts parallels the development of windsurf fins.
Too stiff is no good. Too soft is no good.
Good is correct flex per load, rider weight, preference, and need.

Stiffer masts are always better in my opinion, its just that in the layup you have to weight torsional stiffness against bending stiffness sometimes, and I'd prefer a tad more torsional stiffness over bending stiffness. Thats not the same as saying that a mast doesnt have to be stiff, for to what I've currently been able to try the stiffer the better. Its just that making a bending stiff mast is so much easier than a torsionally stiff mast, but a (significantly) less bending stiff mast can be a lot better if its marginally more torsionally stiff. I'd prefer an alu mast over a carbon very bendstiff-not torsionally stiff mast. For aluminum is inherently more stiff in torsion.