My new Wizard 130 V4 just arrived this week. I haven't had a chance to sail it yet, but I thought I would post some side by side photos of the Wizard next to the Foil X for others to compare. For the last two years I've been sailing the FoilX with large foils (Hoverglide i99, Phantasm 928) in the very light winds (6-12 mph) I have on the river where I live, but I've never felt too comfortable with the balance, even after getting a jack plate to move the foil mast forward.

looks sick bro. I didn't realize foil x was tuttle only

Select to expand quote

thedoor said..
looks sick bro. I didn't realize foil x was tuttle only

The new version of it has a track mount but is more tuned to wing-foiling, quite a bit of rocker on the back, volume distribution more in the middle, is a different board in my opinion, even if they have named it the same, the old one here in the picture is a wind-foil board that can do some wing foiling at least in the intention, the new one appears to me the opposite, so they got the shape tuned and the tracks.

Select to expand quote

Foulweatherjack said..
My new Wizard 130 V4 just arrived this week. I haven't had a chance to sail it yet, but I thought I would post some side by side photos of the Wizard next to the Foil X for others to compare. For the last two years I've been sailing the FoilX with large foils (Hoverglide i99, Phantasm 928) in the very light winds (6-12 mph) I have on the river where I live, but I've never felt too comfortable with the balance, even after getting a jack plate to move the foil mast forward.

That new Wizard looks really nice. Looks like you could definitely get the mast further forward.

Also seeing this pic, looks like the front strap to mast track is a lot closer on the foilx. I'm curious how you adjust this and get it balanced and where the mast track goes. I've been playing with mine and I'm trying to get to where I can ride switch stance. Almost there...would like narrower front straps and center back...

Select to expand quote

dimacced said..

thedoor said..
looks sick bro. I didn't realize foil x was tuttle only

The new version of it has a track mount but is more tuned to wing-foiling, quite a bit of rocker on the back, volume distribution more in the middle, is a different board in my opinion, even if they have named it the same, the old one here in the picture is a wind-foil board that can do some wing foiling at least in the intention, the new one appears to me the opposite, so they got the shape tuned and the tracks.

Huh that's weird. I know the new one has tracks but was thinking of eventually upgrading to the 125 foilx because of tracks and center straps. Just looked at their site and it does look they have double inserts for wing and for windsurf. Nico was here last year with one and he offered me to ride it but the wind died that day before I had a chance. The very center straps are quite a bit more forward than the outer ones on the new foilx. Not sure how it would ride with the center strap setup vs. something like the Predator...






Looks like to get the same mast to front strap position it would need to be almost all the way back on the wizard?

Really wish more of the freeride boards had a track mount.

Balz has been posting a lot of these freestyle type of windfoil videos and they've been inspiring me, but there are not a lot of boards with the very closely mounted center straps with the central rear in a way that makes going switch very easy. I find it a lot shorter of a step on a fin wave/freestyle wave board than the foilx with wider straps. I don't really see stepping in the back strap in switch as a realistic option without that center rear... The new foilx has it but it's a lot more forward, seems like that would then require the foil all the way forward in the track, if that's enough?

I'm guessing the market is just not big enough to have a lot of floatier options with that more foilstyle setup, especially with most catering for winging.

Select to expand quote

aeroegnr said..

Foulweatherjack said..
My new Wizard 130 V4 just arrived this week. I haven't had a chance to sail it yet, but I thought I would post some side by side photos of the Wizard next to the Foil X for others to compare. For the last two years I've been sailing the FoilX with large foils (Hoverglide i99, Phantasm 928) in the very light winds (6-12 mph) I have on the river where I live, but I've never felt too comfortable with the balance, even after getting a jack plate to move the foil mast forward.

That new Wizard looks really nice. Looks like you could definitely get the mast further forward.

Also seeing this pic, looks like the front strap to mast track is a lot closer on the foilx. I'm curious how you adjust this and get it balanced and where the mast track goes. I've been playing with mine and I'm trying to get to where I can ride switch stance. Almost there...would like narrower front straps and center back...

dimacced said..

thedoor said..
looks sick bro. I didn't realize foil x was tuttle only

The new version of it has a track mount but is more tuned to wing-foiling, quite a bit of rocker on the back, volume distribution more in the middle, is a different board in my opinion, even if they have named it the same, the old one here in the picture is a wind-foil board that can do some wing foiling at least in the intention, the new one appears to me the opposite, so they got the shape tuned and the tracks.

Huh that's weird. I know the new one has tracks but was thinking of eventually upgrading to the 125 foilx because of tracks and center straps. Just looked at their site and it does look they have double inserts for wing and for windsurf. Nico was here last year with one and he offered me to ride it but the wind died that day before I had a chance. The very center straps are quite a bit more forward than the outer ones on the new foilx. Not sure how it would ride with the center strap setup vs. something like the Predator...






Looks like to get the same mast to front strap position it would need to be almost all the way back on the wizard?

Really wish more of the freeride boards had a track mount.

Balz has been posting a lot of these freestyle type of windfoil videos and they've been inspiring me, but there are not a lot of boards with the very closely mounted center straps with the central rear in a way that makes going switch very easy. I find it a lot shorter of a step on a fin wave/freestyle wave board than the foilx with wider straps. I don't really see stepping in the back strap in switch as a realistic option without that center rear... The new foilx has it but it's a lot more forward, seems like that would then require the foil all the way forward in the track, if that's enough?

I'm guessing the market is just not big enough to have a lot of floatier options with that more foilstyle setup, especially with most catering for winging.

Yeah, sadly not much market for any big guy foilstyle boards. But for all the flat water stuff you mostly just need in board straps.

David is about as close to a foiling heli tack as I have seen a mortal come and he is on 143L shredsled, speaking of shredsled the mini one could be a good option for big guy windfoil freestyle, lots of volume in the back. Nice boxy rails to get going in light air good in board straps

Select to expand quote

aeroegnr said..
Huh that's weird. I know the new one has tracks but was thinking of eventually upgrading to the 125 foilx because of tracks and center straps. Just looked at their site and it does look they have double inserts for wing and for windsurf. Nico was here last year with one and he offered me to ride it but the wind died that day before I had a chance. The very center straps are quite a bit more forward than the outer ones on the new foilx. Not sure how it would ride with the center strap setup vs. something like the Predator...

I think those center straps are for winging so getting them to work on a windfoil would be a "project" - meaning it may involve significant alterations to setup, style, etc.

Select to expand quote

Paducah said..

aeroegnr said..
Huh that's weird. I know the new one has tracks but was thinking of eventually upgrading to the 125 foilx because of tracks and center straps. Just looked at their site and it does look they have double inserts for wing and for windsurf. Nico was here last year with one and he offered me to ride it but the wind died that day before I had a chance. The very center straps are quite a bit more forward than the outer ones on the new foilx. Not sure how it would ride with the center strap setup vs. something like the Predator...

I think those center straps are for winging so getting them to work on a windfoil would be a "project" - meaning it may involve significant alterations to setup, style, etc.

Good point, gonna place you very very close to the mast foot and will require foil way way forward. I had this issue trying to use straps on the big shredsled

Select to expand quote

thedoor said..

Paducah said..

aeroegnr said..
Huh that's weird. I know the new one has tracks but was thinking of eventually upgrading to the 125 foilx because of tracks and center straps. Just looked at their site and it does look they have double inserts for wing and for windsurf. Nico was here last year with one and he offered me to ride it but the wind died that day before I had a chance. The very center straps are quite a bit more forward than the outer ones on the new foilx. Not sure how it would ride with the center strap setup vs. something like the Predator...

I think those center straps are for winging so getting them to work on a windfoil would be a "project" - meaning it may involve significant alterations to setup, style, etc.

Good point, gonna place you very very close to the mast foot and will require foil way way forward. I had this issue trying to use straps on the big shredsled

Aha. Yes that's too bad. Guess I'll wait for things to shake out before upgrading now that I have a better idea of what I want.

I appreciate all of the comments. I'm hoping the wind will build so I will have a chance to try it out later this afternoon. The Wizard V4 is definitely lighter than the FoilX, as you would expect for a board 15 liters smaller, and I'm hoping that the geometry of the mast track for the foil relative to the location of the foot straps and the mast step will make for easier take off and balance, something I could never quite get comfortable with after about 50 sessions on the FoilX.

Both the FoilX and the Wizard have a double concave on the bottom, which reminds me of the old Starboard Hypersonic design from about 20 years ago (to a lesser extent).

I'll report back when I know more.

Congrats, Great looking board. Love the long tracks. IME tuning is everything, and that range of adjustability is great.

Expensive but it ticks the boxes:
www.mb-boards.com/e/products/one-board-concept/basilisk-sup-foil-wing.asp

Select to expand quote

thedoor said..
looks sick bro. I didn't realize foil x was tuttle only

2022 and earlier, yes.

Select to expand quote

dimacced said..

The new version of it has a track mount but is more tuned to wing-foiling, quite a bit of rocker on the back, volume distribution more in the middle, is a different board in my opinion

not sure i agree wholly. no question that they have changed the shape significantly, i don't know how well it "wings", but for windsurf foiling it is an improvement over the previous board.

Select to expand quote

aeroegnr said..

The very center straps are quite a bit more forward than the outer ones on the new foilx. Not sure how it would ride with the center strap setup vs. something like the Predator...

it was actually comfortable that way. the strap to strap distance is not that different, and when in that more open and upright stance, one's stance width is not that spread out.

Select to expand quote

WindFlyer said..

thedoor said..
looks sick bro. I didn't realize foil x was tuttle only

2022 and earlier, yes.

dimacced said..

The new version of it has a track mount but is more tuned to wing-foiling, quite a bit of rocker on the back, volume distribution more in the middle, is a different board in my opinion

not sure i agree wholly. no question that they have changed the shape significantly, i don't know how well it "wings", but for windsurf foiling it is an improvement over the previous board.

aeroegnr said..

The very center straps are quite a bit more forward than the outer ones on the new foilx. Not sure how it would ride with the center strap setup vs. something like the Predator...

it was actually comfortable that way. the strap to strap distance is not that different, and when in that more open and upright stance, one's stance width is not that spread out.

Hello WF, I understand from what you say that you have ridden both versions of the foil X, I am curious to know your impressions, since honestly my statement on how should ride are based only I what I can see on picture, never rode the old nor the new one. I had boards with rocker on the back and did not like it, flat on the back I liked much more thet is my only experience I can rely on.

Although foils mounted in a track gives the most potential for tuning, I'm not sure if Starboard may have gone down a rabbit hole with the latest release of the foilX.

Their foil range seems to be really split into wing foil dedicated foils and racing foils. With only the old freeride 1100 fw which fits into middle.

Is the flat top Starboard aluminium or carbon mast stiff enough to take wind foiling loads, without bending like spaghetti?

I'm definitely curious about first hand experience with the new foilx. Would allow me to get rid of the jack plate and stick with phantasm. Think I've got mine about 2cm or so more forward than above with the smaller pedestal mount on the aluminum mast.

Select to expand quote

dimacced said..

Hello WF, I understand from what you say that you have ridden both versions of the foil X, I am curious to know your impressions, since honestly my statement on how should ride are based only I what I can see on picture, never rode the old nor the new one.

yes, i have (three versions, actually), but never on the same day (back to back).

the first generation (2020) did not impress me at all. came in 105 and 145 sizes; both of them tried to cram too much volume into too small a planform, making for thick, corky boards, features accentuated by the very hard rails all the way around and just small cutouts in the back. their thickness made them difficult to waterstart (with no possibility of pushing the tail down some for more comfort). uphauling in choppy water (especially the 145) was no picnic either, as that same thickness and hard rails and no bottom shaping made them tippy - it felt like standing on a rolling log. the 105 was impossibly reactive with any foil other than the SuperCruiser (and its odd geometry) while the 145 was more tolerant of other foils. because of the thickness and small planform and the rail shape as it met the deck, the front outside strap inserts were unergonomic and unusable.

for 2021/2022 the 125 was added to the lineup and, apart from being a more user-friendly intermediate size (not all or nothing), it dialled down (or even out) some of the issues of the originals. not sure how well those features were also transferred to the 105/145, as i never did see (late alone ride) them.

Select to expand quote

aeroegnr said..
I'm definitely curious about first hand experience with the new foilx.

i'll try to dig up my notes to give you a comparative review (of the 125s).
better yet, i may be able to ride the current board in the near future again with a bit more time (once i round up the foils too!) and have a more complete impression. unfortunately, i don't have any measurements of where the foilbox was located in the prior board, so if you can give me a reference (say between the foilbox front screw and one of the rear strap inserts), that would help me out get a better sense of a "baseline" from which to start.

Select to expand quote

RuddeBos said..
Although foils mounted in a track gives the most potential for tuning, I'm not sure if Starboard may have gone down a rabbit hole with the latest release of the foilX.

Their foil range seems to be really split into wing foil dedicated foils and racing foils. With only the old freeride 1100 fw which fits into middle.

Is the flat top Starboard aluminium or carbon mast stiff enough to take wind foiling loads, without bending like spaghetti?

good points! i wondered some of those same things... particularly the seeming disconnect between the board side and the foil side. on the board side, the tuttle foilbox may make a return.

with respect to the foils, you're missing the SuperCruiser 1700 and SuperFlyer 1300 foils. they have an odd fuselage geometry, but in my experience work much better with other fuselages (95 and 85). in addition to that, they've added a new SuperFlyer 1500 wing and a FreeRide 1500 wing. the SF1300 and 1500 are portings of wings developed for winging (EType), and the same is the case for the FR1500 (from the XType, which no longer exists on the winging side). still, that does leave gaps for everyday non-race oriented riding!

as for the top plate masts and their suitability for windsurfing, the current version of the Alu winging mast is pretty stiff and in fact is a mast option with the SuperCruiser foil (at the 82cm height). last year i rode the 92cm winging carbon mast a fair amount and found it plenty stiff for the low and medium aspect wings (SC, SF, FR1100) and even the 725 (all of this in a more inboard "Foil X" type setup). i also tried the 86cm race wing foil mast (same spec as the iQFoil mast) and it felt great. (they have a thinner, lighter winging carbon mast for 2023; haven't had a chance to test it).

Select to expand quote

WindFlyer said..

dimacced said..

Hello WF, I understand from what you say that you have ridden both versions of the foil X, I am curious to know your impressions, since honestly my statement on how should ride are based only I what I can see on picture, never rode the old nor the new one.

yes, i have (three versions, actually), but never on the same day (back to back).

the first generation (2020) did not impress me at all. came in 105 and 145 sizes; both of them tried to cram too much volume into too small a planform, making for thick, corky boards, features accentuated by the very hard rails all the way around and just small cutouts in the back. their thickness made them difficult to waterstart (with no possibility of pushing the tail down some for more comfort). uphauling in choppy water (especially the 145) was no picnic either, as that same thickness and hard rails and no bottom shaping made them tippy - it felt like standing on a rolling log. the 105 was impossibly reactive with any foil other than the SuperCruiser (and its odd geometry) while the 145 was more tolerant of other foils. because of the thickness and small planform and the rail shape as it met the deck, the front outside strap inserts were unergonomic and unusable.

for 2021/2022 the 125 was added to the lineup and, apart from being a more user-friendly intermediate size (not all or nothing), it dialled down (or even out) some of the issues of the originals. not sure how well those features were also transferred to the 105/145, as i never did see (late alone ride) them.

aeroegnr said..
I'm definitely curious about first hand experience with the new foilx.

i'll try to dig up my notes to give you a comparative review (of the 125s).
better yet, i may be able to ride the current board in the near future again with a bit more time (once i round up the foils too!) and have a more complete impression. unfortunately, i don't have any measurements of where the foilbox was located in the prior board, so if you can give me a reference (say between the foilbox front screw and one of the rear strap inserts), that would help me out get a better sense of a "baseline" from which to start.

Very interesting your observation and feelings on the old versions of the 145. I built my new board which has more or less same dimensions 190x71x130ish liters is 12 cm thick behind the mast and has very boxy rails, volume distribution if possible is even more radical with more volume on the back vs the SB, though the straps are located a touch more inboard so the feet stand on the very slightly domed deck. I still have to put foiling hours under the belt but so far I havent had any of the issues you have mentioned, probably the 15 liters difference means something, the boxy rails make the board respond very quickly to pumping, yet have to test the waterstart properly, I have done a few but I don't remember any particular problem...I will pay more attention next time

Select to expand quote

dimacced said...
I built my new board which has more or less same dimensions 190x71x130ish liters is 12 cm thick. . .

if that works for you and your conditions, that's great!

but just one comment on the rails/tail shapes. boards with really hard rails make the board unstick from the water and achieve a planing glide more easily, especially if pumping the sail; boards with significant cutouts/tucklines and the like in the tail allow you to pump both the sail and the foil, the latter more easily accomplished by the ability to sink the tail and have it bounce back up. as result, in my experience, will generally result in an earlier takeoff speed and lend themselves well for the big front wing/small sail style of riding.

Select to expand quote

WindFlyer said..

dimacced said...
I built my new board which has more or less same dimensions 190x71x130ish liters is 12 cm thick. . .

if that works for you and your conditions, that's great!

but just one comment on the rails/tail shapes. boards with really hard rails make the board unstick from the water and achieve a planing glide more easily, especially if pumping the sail; boards with significant cutouts/tucklines and the like in the tail allow you to pump both the sail and the foil, the latter more easily accomplished by the ability to sink the tail and have it bounce back up. as result, in my experience, will generally result in an earlier takeoff speed and lend themselves well for the big front wing/small sail style of riding.

You may be right on the cut outs stuff...though when thinking about I calculated that even in the most aggressive 5 cm dept large cutouts, the liters you take off the tail are really negligible (5 in the case of my calculation) I did not see how this could have made any difference...I may be wrong. I am not the most proficient foiler of course though I noticed that for the board to sink on the rear I just need to move my weight a little to pump the foil, and the thick parallel and sharp rails really work wonders to accelerate as much as you need to reduce the number of pumps from rest to get airborn. Should I be proven mistaken miving forward, and feel the need to take some liters off the tail I will get the board back to the factory (my garage) and get it modified at reasonable cost and good craftmanship :-) ...and the positive of the rails would not be compromised anyway so...

So it seems there are two pumping maneuvers to get flying on the foil: pumping the sail, and pumping the foil itself.

I've seen lots of IG videos of pros like Radiculo just pumping a foil board without a wing or a sail; can anyone elaborate upon the technique of pumping the foil to get flying?

Select to expand quote

Foulweatherjack said..
So it seems there are two pumping maneuvers to get flying on the foil: pumping the sail, and pumping the foil itself.

I've seen lots of IG videos of pros like Radiculo just pumping a foil board without a wing or a sail; can anyone elaborate upon the technique of pumping the foil to get flying?

To me its a bit like an olly on a skateboard, where you bounce the back of the board down with your back foot and then if it clears the water shift your weight back to the front foot

Thank you; i'll give it a try

Thank you; i'll give it a try

Thank you; i'll give it a try

In general, for me its mostly sail pumping until you reach take off speed and then a few foil bounces with back foot.

I have found this sail pump technique better than my earlier double arm technique

Select to expand quote

thedoor said..
In general, for me its mostly sail pumping until you reach take off speed and then a few foil bounces with back foot.

I have found this sail pump technique better than my earlier double arm technique

The video from Andy Brandt on windfoil pumping is a good one, the two actions are not separate, need to happen simultaneously and coordinated, when you pull the sail you charge on the back foot and project on the front foot the you bring back the sail to start the cycle again. By doing this you engage a sort of dolphing motion from which you get an acceleration on the front wing of the foil in the downward motion and therefore more lift that is getting you up, as soon as you unstick from the water, you have less drag, and get speed quicker, and get more stable flight, this is my best description on what is going on.

This was about a year ago and it differs a bit from Andy's advice. I am sure I have plenty of room for improvement. Never the less it's good pumping footage and I was shocked I could get flying. The second and the third boost I was catching the small waves that the current was making.