I've been using Naish foil gear with 3 different front wings and 2 different stabs for a bit now with SS Wizards 105 and 125. Everything works pretty well as far as i can feel. Having said that I don't have anything to compare Naish foil gear to but no complaints. I'm having fun. I've been thinking about mabey getting SS foil gear, but I noticed when looking at the SS Infinity range that the difference in area (cm2) between the i65 and i76, to me, seems huge. It's 693cm2. I was wondering what people think, or what their experience has been, with regard to these two wings adequately covering the windrange that alot of windfoilers are no doubt foiling in. Ie 10 - 35 knots. I'm excluding the i2000 for the above mentioned windrange as, in my opinion, you shouldn't need a front wing of that size for light wind at intermediate to advanced level foiling. I'd love to know people think?

Hi Sambo,

I'm 85 Kgs
As a rough guide if I'm sailing flat water and it's gusty I will stick with the i76
12-15 5.9
14-18 4.7
17-22 4.2
20-25+ 3.7
The i76 is also the foil I lean towards in waves.

Having said that the i65 is an awesome foil, no question it's looser and faster than the i76.
I find I need to go up a sail size for same wind strength if switching from the i76 to the i65.

Use foil surface area as a guide but don't think that because the i65 is nearly half the surface area of the i76 it will need twice as much wind (power) it simply doesn't work like that.
For example at a constant 18 knots I could comfortably sail the i76 with a 4.2 or the i65 with a 4.7. The two foils complement each other perfectly and when and how you choose to ride them will come down to personal preference.
Simon

The i76 is a great foil. You can use it on the low end of that wind as long as you put effort into pumping. Some people would rather have the i84, but I've no experience with that. I've run the i99 but after being on race foils and i76 I'd rather use the 76 and pump more, because the i99 feels like driving a bus in comparison.

Wouldn't mind trying the 65 some day in higher wind but I don't know anyone who has them and it's usually not good enough wind to consider it. I've seen awesome videos of people using them in other places. Looks really cool.

I've got the i84, the i99, the H4 and the i65. My favorite wing to foil is the i65 by far. The thing is fast, fun, lively and a great time...when the wind cooperates. I'm 90klg and find I need to have a steady upper teens in order to really have a good time on it.

The i76 seems to be a great overall foil from what I've heard with my friends really enjoying it.

You may also want to start looking into Axis foils as I've heard some great things about those for windfoiling.

DC

Naish foils are much better built than SS, just as an FYI.
The early delta Naish just aren't a great design but the newer stuff is pretty excellent.

Axis and Starboard are others to look at.

My big foil is the stock 1220 from 2018.
I got the 600 kitewing last year, and use it 70% of the time, wind as low as 8-14 knots.
Difference in early foiling is 2-3 pumps, but low drag feel is huge.
Speed...I'm slow, so maybe 2 knot diff.

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Sambo # said..
I've been using Naish foil gear with 3 different front wings and 2 different stabs for a bit now with SS Wizards 105 and 125. Everything works pretty well as far as i can feel. Having said that I don't have anything to compare Naish foil gear to but no complaints. I'm having fun. I've been thinking about mabey getting SS foil gear, but I noticed when looking at the SS Infinity range that the difference in area (cm2) between the i65 and i76, to me, seems huge. It's 693cm2. I was wondering what people think, or what their experience has been, with regard to these two wings adequately covering the windrange that alot of windfoilers are no doubt foiling in. Ie 10 - 35 knots. I'm excluding the i2000 for the above mentioned windrange as, in my opinion, you shouldn't need a front wing of that size for light wind at intermediate to advanced level foiling. I'd love to know people think?

I would wait and pickup the slingshot 730 wing when it becomes ava. You can pair that with one of their aluminum masts that fit that wing fuse combo if you did not want to go with the big $$$ carbon mast. That 730 wing will cover a big wind range for most people.

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Sambo # said..
THIS IS A CORRECTION TO MY FIRST POST. THE CORRECTION IS ITALICISED. I've been using Naish foil gear with 3 different front wings and 2 different stabs for a bit now with SS Wizards 105 and 125. Everything works pretty well as far as i can feel. Having said that I don't have anything to compare Naish foil gear to but no complaints. I'm having fun. I've been thinking about mabey getting SS foil gear, but I noticed when looking at the SS Infinity range that the difference in area (cm2) between the i65 and i76, to me, seems huge. It's 693cm2. I was wondering what people think, or what their experience has been, with regard to these two wings adequately covering the wind range that alot of windfoilers are no doubt foiling in. Ie 10 - 35 knots. I'm excluding the i84 for the above mentioned wind range as, to me, it seems like quite a big wing for windfoiling. I'd love to know people think?

Hello Sambo.
i have been using those 2 wing with both wizard 125 and 105 in the 10-35kts wind range. I am 1,82 for 74-75kg.
for the sails range I was using wave/free wave 5 batten sails from 6,0 to 4,2 (I change last year for wave 4 batten from 6,2 to 3,7)
on the low end of the spectrum 8-10kts the I76 is working well and can be better as the I84 using the C position to get more take off power. For the I76 playing with sails you can go to 20-25kts easily and the I65 will work well from 15kts using bigger sails.
if you have the right sails size the gap is not a problem. personnaly I do prefer depending sea conditions swapping foil instead of sail and I add on my quiver the Apollo 60.
I haven't been able to ride it yet but it allow to reduce the gap between wing and reduce the number of sails that you carry

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LeeD said..
My big foil is the stock 1220 from 2018.
I got the 600 kitewing last year, and use it 70% of the time, wind as low as 8-14 knots.
Difference in early foiling is 2-3 pumps, but low drag feel is huge.
Speed...I'm slow, so maybe 2 knot diff.

I mainly use the Windsurf 1150 now and switch between the 320 and HA 280 stabs depending on wind strength. I also have Jet 1050 and Jet 1250 for lighter patchier wind. I will probably get rid of one of these as i don't think i will need them both for light wind.

Funnily enough i was thinking a couple of weeks ago about weather it might be possible to use a small kite wing for for windfoiling as i need a high wind wing. I was looking at the new wind/wing HA 914 which would probably do the job in consistent 20 plus knots. I'm guestimating that i would be comfortable on my wizard 105 and 3.3 or 3.7 in 30 knots and should be able to handle gusts of up to 35 knots, mabey more, with out too much trouble. (winter fronts on flat water on the lake). Our strong sea breezes are either 20-25 or 25-30 knts. I weigh 80 kgs.

Do you have any idea which of these two wings would be better for high wind (25 - 35 knots) ?

Also what do you weigh, and what size stabilizer, board and sail are you using with the 600 kite wing in 8-14 knots ?

What is the strongest wind you use the 600 in? and with what size gear?

I'm guesing the 600 is freakishly maneuverable? Is it stable at low and higher speed?

Amazing such a small little wing (kite 600) nearly takes off as easy as the 1220 Thrust.

75 kg.
210 stab with 79 fuze, 600 kitewing.
Since it works great in 14 knot breeze with 5.0 sail, I suspect the top end is no different than the 1220.
I'm way out of the game when gusts hit 25 knots on my 3.7. I just switch to windsurfingvwith a 85 liter board and 4.7 then.

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2keen said..
Hi Sambo,

I'm 85 Kgs
As a rough guide if I'm sailing flat water and it's gusty I will stick with the i76
12-15 5.9
14-18 4.7
17-22 4.2
20-25+ 3.7
The i76 is also the foil I lean towards in waves.

Having said that the i65 is an awesome foil, no question it's looser and faster than the i76.
I find I need to go up a sail size for same wind strength if switching from the i76 to the i65.

Use foil surface area as a guide but don't think that because the i65 is nearly half the surface area of the i76 it will need twice as much wind (power) it simply doesn't work like that.
For example at a constant 18 knots I could comfortably sail the i76 with a 4.2 or the i65 with a 4.7. The two foils complement each other perfectly and when and how you choose to ride them will come down to personal preference.
Simon

Yeah right. Thanks. That's all good to know.

Also, are the numbers you stated above for the i76, for the for the Wizard 105 and or 114 ?

The 914HA is more of a freerace wing. If you are willing to rig big it's probably got more light wind performance than anything else in your quiver.

Where you might find it lacking is in carving swell. I find wings with drooped tips perform better in aggressive turns.

Are you looking for flat water speed or performance on a wave? Also which fuselage do you have?

914 ha is still not availible.

You have to remember wing size is not directly related to wind speed like your sail is. It is only related to your board speed.
So if in strong winds you can simply use a much smaller sail and still cruise around on your light wind wing.
It is too easy to get sucked in thinking a small wing will be easier in strong winds ( it can be but you have to be ready to maintain higher minimum board speeds everywhere)

Ditto what Darryl says. I think most people can really get away with 1 wing for most of their sailing. I've got one 1000cm2 wing, and I run 6.0 foilglide from <10kts, and then 4.8 S-1 from about 12kts, 4.0 S-1 from 14kts, and then I bought a 3.3, but haven't used it yet, but figure I'll probably be able to use it from around 20kts. In reality, I've pretty much sailed the 4.8 and 4.0 exclusively the past 6 months, the 6m foilglide has only been necessary for 1 outing.

Boardcrazy in Brisbane has had a 914HA for a while now, they look pretty nice, combined with the new Naish Carbon masts etc. Don't think I'd buy one, as it doesn't look like it offers much over what I'm sailing now, but regardless seems like a decent bit of kit.

I wouldn't get hung up too much on multiple wing sizes. I think 1 wing somewhere between 900-1200cm2 if high aspect, or a bit bigger if lower aspect will suit fine, and just sail it until you find the limits. Unless you're racing there's really no need to overcomplicate it.

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Grantmac said..
The 914HA is more of a freerace wing. If you are willing to rig big it's probably got more light wind performance than anything else in your quiver.

Where you might find it lacking is in carving swell. I find wings with drooped tips perform better in aggressive turns.

Are you looking for flat water speed or performance on a wave? Also which fuselage do you have?

I was looking at it as a high wind wing and hoping that it would work well in 20-35 knots. Wanted to use it on the lake and on the coast. In gusty winter fronts i mainly foil on the lake so wave performance is not important there, but i still want good maneuverability. On the coast in seabreeze season (strong wind 20 + knts) i was hoping it's maneuverability would be something like the Windsurf 1150 Freeride wing. Ie cruisy turning on swell. So not super hard, aggressive turns / carves.

Naish classify it as a freeride windsurf foil which is what the 1150 is, so i would have thought it would have decent maneuverability like the 1150. Not the same but similar, and therefore hopefully give me the performance attributes i mentioned i was hoping for from it above.

I have the 2020 Jet Windsurf fuse, 79cm.

I'd just take your current wing and rig smaller. Move to completely inboard footstraps if possible.

I'd heed Grantmac's post.
I usually windfoil on the Naish 600 kitewing, 210 stab, 79 fuse, and 65 mast. Only real practical advantage over the old 1220 is that it's 4 lbs lighter in weight. Takes maybe 2-4 more pumps to lift when underpowered to moderate powered.
Jibes the same, but at slightly higher speeds.
Windswell riding similar, maybe stiffer with 79 fuze on both.

Thanks all.

I have the i76 and i65. The difference in area seems gigantic, but it actually seems to be a reasonable step.

Note: I have not found the i65 to be easier to sail in high winds and bigger chop. Yes, you need some more power to get going with the i65 so it's for higher wind days, but it is only a faster and more nimble wing (also less stable). It is not like going to a smaller fin to calm things down. In just about all conditions (especially gusty), I've found the i65 is harder to sail. But, it can definitely be way more fun if you can handle it. Oh, and I believe jumping is not advised on the i76.

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lwalker said..
I have the i76 and i65. The difference in area seems gigantic, but it actually seems to be a reasonable step.

Note: I have not found the i65 to be easier to sail in high winds and bigger chop. Yes, you need some more power to get going with the i65 so it's for higher wind days, but it is only a faster and more nimble wing (also less stable). It is not like going to a smaller fin to calm things down. In just about all conditions (especially gusty), I've found the i65 is harder to sail. But, it can definitely be way more fun if you can handle it. Oh, and I believe jumping is not advised on the i76.

Yeah right. Thanks.

Can one of you i76 fans please tell me the distance from the leading edge of the foil to the leading edge of the mast? I think you all run in B right? Trying to compare to my Flow 1500. TIA

I foiled on i76 for first time yesterday, so just getting used to it after NP Glide, but the dimension you're after is 375mm by the looks.

Thanks Mort!

The difference between A and B position is 6" (15cm) and B and C on a Switch Fuse is 2" (5 cm). You can see the A-B distance on the ruler in Mort67's photo.

Finally had a chance for a proper second try on the i76 today. IMHO it does what I was hoping for compared to NP Glide. I would say, better up wind, easier to turn (getting much closer to gybing in 2 sessions). Also nicely stable/manageable on downwind swell, had a couple of nice rides today.
I have bought an i65 (but not used it yet), having found the Glide Small much more fun and manageable (less lift) in 20 knots plus on the NP.
One thing I would say against the SS is that needing 3 tools to put it together seems poorly thought out.
Mort

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Mort67 said..
One thing I would say against the SS is that needing 3 tools to put it together seems poorly thought out.
Mort

I tend to keep the wings attached to the fuse, so I just need a tool for the board & fuse attachment. If I'm using a pedestal, that's a single hex key and as it happens, it's the same size that my KA sails use for batten adjustment, so that's the only key that I need. If I use Tuttle, then I need two different sizes. I found some really cheap 3-head Allen keys on AliExpress. The largest size has the two keys for Tuttle and the slightly smaller size has everything you need for pedestal+wings. I got these keys a year ago and I have kept them in the surf container where most cheap tools start to rust immediately, but I'm not seeing any corrosion at all.

Now if I were Slingshot, I would contact the manufacturer of these keys and have them make a custom version that can assemble the whole foil.. Maybe make the keys a bit shorter than they are so that there's more room around the pedestal mount screws (it's doable, but the mast does get in the way a bit).

Here's a link to the ones I have: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_9ukv6W

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lwalker said..I have the i76 and i65. The difference in area seems gigantic, but it actually seems to be a reasonable step.
Note: I have not found the i65 to be easier to sail in high winds and bigger chop. Yes, you need some more power to get going with the i65 so it's for higher wind days, but it is only a faster and more nimble wing (also less stable). It is not like going to a smaller fin to calm things down. In just about all conditions (especially gusty), I've found the i65 is harder to sail. But, it can definitely be way more fun if you can handle it. Oh, and I believe jumping is not advised on the i76.

I went back to the Infinity 65 (from the Phantasm 730) for our windiest day of the winter so far.
Even thought the P 730 benefits hugely from the super-stiff carbon mast and slipperier fuse and rear wing I was glad I was on the smaller wing (and Hover Glide kit) in the 40 knot gusts. I lay on the sail in the 45 knot gust
When crazy overpowered it's just easier to control lift on a smaller wing.

I can only go upwind and downwind in 35+ winds in open water/big windswells. And that's with a 3.4m sail - my 3 batten Simmer Tricera works pretty well max downhauled.
Could easily use a 2.8m if we could get one.

I'm hoping that the Phantasm PTM 730 will have similar carving performance to the Infinity 65 and be a little faster (perhaps 25 or 26 knots).
Wyatt reckons it's the business

"I lay on the sail in the 45 knot gust "

Azymuth, your knee must be doing well then!