Got out on the foil for the first time at my home pond this afternoon. Forecast was 14 gusting to 36. It was more like zero gusting to 20, from semi-random directions. I got a few short flights in, but there'd be a puff coming down the lake, I'd catch that and pump onto the foil, then see another gust coming from an entirely different direction, which would bitch-slap me into the water. I wasn't sure I was going to A) make it out from the shore, as there was turbulence literally blowing in all directions, or B) make it back, for the same reason. I finally swam it in the last 50 yards or so, as I literally could not stay on the board, as the sail was flopping around like the hand on a clock right before bad things happen in a sci-fi movie.

The few short flights I got were fun, but man oh man, inland sailing sucks! :o). (Still had a good time, tho!)

There will be better days

Could be worse. Our inland lakes have ice along the shorelines. Gale force winds last night dropping to gale advisory, small craft warning on the Big Lake (Superior). Bit on the too cold side for this old man. Plus have yet tried to launch a foil board in large shore break. I envision being decapitated by the wing or mast.

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OldGuy3 said..
Could be worse. Our inland lakes have ice along the shorelines. Gale force winds last night dropping to gale advisory, small craft warning on the Big Lake (Superior). Bit on the too cold side for this old man. Plus have yet tried to launch a foil board in large shore break. I envision being decapitated by the wing or mast.

LoL, yes, that would definitely be worse! :-) (Though I wouldn't have even tried in those conditions! :-)

It was nearly 60 here today, and between the drysuit, the life vest, and all the work just trying to stay standing up on the board with the possessed sail, I worked up quite the sweat!

Yeah there's an area downtown that I want to foil through, but the channel is surrounded by buildings and all kind of things that do weird things with the wind direction. I know that feeling of happily foiling a little downwind at 20+mph then all of the sudden the wind changes 20deg or so and I'm immediately in the water...

Man I thought I had crazy wind. I'll stop my bitchin... I know what your saying though. I was out on the rail in the harness last week,
When a random shift backwinded the sail and slammed me in the drink.... Ice though ?, I'm out..

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aeroegnr said..
...then all of the sudden the wind changes 20deg or so and I'm immediately in the water...

Pfft... 20 deg... Please... How about 60-90 deg?

Honest to God, the puffs were primarily coming straight down the length of the lake - I could see them rippling the water. I'd catch one, and literally, I'd then see ripples coming at me nearly 90 degrees to the direction of the one I'd caught. It was almost comical. Almost.

jims Wow, those are difficult conditions, not sure what I would do, is it always that way or just that day?

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OldGuy3 said..
Could be worse. Our inland lakes have ice along the shorelines. Gale force winds last night dropping to gale advisory, small craft warning on the Big Lake (Superior). Bit on the too cold side for this old man. Plus have yet tried to launch a foil board in large shore break. I envision being decapitated by the wing or mast.

Not all inland foiling is inland foiling
Was about to suggest Jim to go north to the greats for some steady strong wind, dont mention the cold part
That was some wind today(view from Lake Ontario). Where abouts on superior Oldguy?

Monday looks like another gale if your keen Jim. 11ft wave forcast for lake Ontario

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CAN17 said..

Not all inland foiling is inland foiling

Brr... Maybe gusty and 90-degree shifts aren't so bad... ;-)

Thanks CAN17, just wondering where are all the girls in bikinis?

The key for gusty, shifty conditions, large foil ,big early lifting front wing, not too fast, wide comfortable board and small sail; it could turn other wise crazy day into very enjoyable.

A lot of my sailing is on a small mountain lake, and Jims description is apt. 90 degree wind shifts are normal, and 180 degrees not all that unusual. You're doing the right thing by watching the water, and that can help a lot, but sometimes the shift doesn't get through the layer right above the water (it's called a white squall at sea) and then you do get dumped. When you can see the shift coming, though, there are things you can do. If it's a header, you can bear off a few seconds before the gust arrives, and get slung forward really dramatically when it reaches you. If it's coming from behind (a lift) The you can head upwind in anticipation, and sheet in hard as the gust hits. In general, rigging so that your stance is relatively upright is a good idea in these circumstance.

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miamiwindsurfe said..wide comfortable board and small sail

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Awalkspoiled said..
In general, rigging so that your stance is relatively upright is a good idea in these circumstance.

Yeah, I need to get out of the windsurfing mindset of 'go with the largest sail I can handle', and get used to using the smallest sail I can get away with, I guess. (And yes, staying upright on the board is presently a big challenge for me - I'm so habituated to leaning back! Additionally, a larger sail seems to compound that, between extra pull of the sail, and extra weight of the larger rig.)

I was on a 5.0 for this session the other day, and I thought that was a pretty small size for the conditions. It was a serious handful in the gusty, shifting winds, though. I'd initially been thinking I should have gone with a 6.0, but I'd've gotten back-winded a lot more on a larger sail - the 5.0 was really getting thrown around in the competing gusts, as it was. I'm wondering if my next sail down - a 4.3 - might've been a better choice?

I've also found that I'm way out of practice at sub-planing conditions. (Ok, I'm out of practice at most everything, not having sailed in about 15 years, but I'm very comfortable in planing and even overpowered conditions - you can really throw things around, and count on the planing board and raked-back, heeled-over sail keeping you out of the water.) I was really struggling to keep the board from pearling in the lulls, keeping it level side-to-side, and even uphauling was a lot more work than it should have been! I hate to say it, but I need some bobbing practice.

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jims said..

miamiwindsurfe said..wide comfortable board and small sail

Awalkspoiled said..
In general, rigging so that your stance is relatively upright is a good idea in these circumstance.

Yeah, I need to get out of the windsurfing mindset of 'go with the largest sail I can handle', and get used to using the smallest sail I can get away with, I guess. (And yes, staying upright on the board is presently a big challenge for me - I'm so habituated to leaning back! Additionally, a larger sail seems to compound that, between extra pull of the sail, and extra weight of the larger rig.)

I was on a 5.0 for this session the other day, and I thought that was a pretty small size for the conditions. It was a serious handful in the gusty, shifting winds, though. I'd initially been thinking I should have gone with a 6.0, but I'd've gotten back-winded a lot more on a larger sail - the 5.0 was really getting thrown around in the competing gusts, as it was. I'm wondering if my next sail down - a 4.3 - might've been a better choice?

I've also found that I'm way out of practice at sub-planing conditions. (Ok, I'm out of practice at most everything, not having sailed in about 15 years, but I'm very comfortable in planing and even overpowered conditions - you can really throw things around, and count on the planing board and raked-back, heeled-over sail keeping you out of the water.) I was really struggling to keep the board from pearling in the lulls, keeping it level side-to-side, and even uphauling was a lot more work than it should have been! I hate to say it, but I need some bobbing practice.

I struggled with the same things you mention when new to foiling(~ 6 months ago). Just as others told me.. it just takes some time to get used to the differences in foiling. Being over powered, and the slogging scenario. I came from a 125 fin board to a 114 foil board, and struggled with slogging and up hauling in chop. It seemed if I had enough wind to sail up onto the foil (no pumping), I was on the edge of being over powered in the gusts. Turn hard upwind or bear off, stand up straight and feather the sail till the gust dissipates. Everything gets a lot easier with time.. I was expecting it to be a lot easier than it is . Old age didn't help either. For reference..
At 140lbs, my sails are 5.2, 4.5, and 3.7 for ~ 14-30 knots. The 3.7 at 30 knots is pushing it, but that wind is pretty rare, so I just down haul the hell out of the 3.7.

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WsurfAustin said..
Old age didn't help either. For reference..
At 140lbs, my sails are 5.2, 4.5, and 3.7 for ~ 14-30 knots. The 3.7 at 30 knots is pushing it, but that wind is pretty rare, so I just down haul the hell out of the 3.7.

Sounds like you and I are cut from the same cloth! I'm definitely in the advancing-in-age category (56), and also a lightweight (138). Good to hear that you can use a 5.2 in lighter conditions - my sails presently are 3.6, 4.3, 5.0 and 6.0. (I've got one smaller and one larger, but gave up using both way back when I sailed regular boards - the 3.2 was way too twitchy, and the 8.1 was just a beast.)

I'm on a 125l 31" wide board (2018 Wizard purchased from CoreAS). My largest fin board is also 125l - an old Bic Astro Rock, and strangely, the A-Rock feels comparatively a lot more stable than the much wider (albeit also much shorter, and effectively no-nose volume-wise) Wizard. Even my old 102l E-Rock feels a bit more stable than the Wizard right now - just a matter of what I'm used to and have spent many, many years on (and having a little volume in front of the mast, too). I'll adapt, but foiling and foiling equipment is definitely more than just a minor deviation from regular windsurfing, for sure! (I will say that the Wizard is notably more floaty and stable (bobbing around) than my 73l Seatrend ATV! :-)

I can't imagine trying to uphaul and bob around on a short, squat 114l board!!

All that having been said, I'm still watching iWinsurf obsessively, waiting for the next day with a few stray puffs that might give me a few more brief flights, in between getting beat up by the fickle inland gusts!

Jim, it's been many years of windsurfing with leaning back and "closing the gap". It will take some time to change that muscle memory.
Maybe try this, take a sail size where you are quite powered up, front foot in the strap but do not lean back at all, this will force you and the rig to be more upright, and do not close the gap. Front arm fairly straight.

Keep plenty of distance between you and the rig! as the board picks up speed, try to windsurf the foil like a fin, you have to lean forward with more pressure on the front leg to keep the board down.

Once you've learned to control the foil pressure then lean back a little bit to get a tiny bit of height then lean ALL the way forward to bring the board down.

Had a really good session at the little local puddle today! It was the typical 0-12, gusting to probably upper-teens, but at least it was all mostly coming from the same general compass quadrant today. (except close to shore - it's chaos within about 50-100 yards of shore...)

I was able to pump up onto the foil (with help from the gusts), and felt mostly in control today - more so than the first 2 sessions. It was much more a case of me calling the shots than the foil calling the shots. (mostly, LoL... :-). I did have 2 catapults due to nose diving (one of which was a result of the foiling breaching the surface), but I was able to recover from a number of other nose dive situations that previously would have spelled doom. I was also able to be much more conscious about trying to stay over the board (vs the windsurfing habit of leaning back and raking the sail over), sheeting out vs letting myself get overpowered, keeping a good angle to the wind (though I do still tend to get pointed way too high upwind in the stronger gusts), and about keeping the board more level. (I still tend toward nose-high, but weight shifting was a bit more subtle and controlled today.)

I am finding that when I start the over-control cycle on pitch (ie, the bobbing higher and lower), that I'm better off dumping power and turning down wind to stabilize, or just touch down, re-center, and then go again. I'm also discovering that getting up onto the foil when the board is going too slow is just a recipe for a nose dive. To quote Sensei Dean, "board speed, board speed, board speed".

I was on a 5.0, which was really about the right size for today.

Ironically, I went out primarily to practice uphauling and bobbing around today - just low-wind handling, as I'm way out of practice on that. The flights were an unexpected bonus, and they were definitely the longest and most controlled so far! (I was way more comfortable on the 125l board today, too - I set out with the mindset of "you know how to windsurf, don't be a dumb-ass", and things went much better in terms of stability, handling, tacking, etc.

Fun Time!!!

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jims said..

WsurfAustin said..
Old age didn't help either. For reference..
At 140lbs, my sails are 5.2, 4.5, and 3.7 for ~ 14-30 knots. The 3.7 at 30 knots is pushing it, but that wind is pretty rare, so I just down haul the hell out of the 3.7.

Sounds like you and I are cut from the same cloth! I'm definitely in the advancing-in-age category (56), and also a lightweight (138). Good to hear that you can use a 5.2 in lighter conditions - my sails presently are 3.6, 4.3, 5.0 and 6.0. (I've got one smaller and one larger, but gave up using both way back when I sailed regular boards - the 3.2 was way too twitchy, and the 8.1 was just a beast.)

I'm on a 125l 31" wide board (2018 Wizard purchased from CoreAS). My largest fin board is also 125l - an old Bic Astro Rock, and strangely, the A-Rock feels comparatively a lot more stable than the much wider (albeit also much shorter, and effectively no-nose volume-wise) Wizard. Even my old 102l E-Rock feels a bit more stable than the Wizard right now - just a matter of what I'm used to and have spent many, many years on (and having a little volume in front of the mast, too). I'll adapt, but foiling and foiling equipment is definitely more than just a minor deviation from regular windsurfing, for sure! (I will say that the Wizard is notably more floaty and stable (bobbing around) than my 73l Seatrend ATV! :-)

I can't imagine trying to uphaul and bob around on a short, squat 114l board!!

All that having been said, I'm still watching iWinsurf obsessively, waiting for the next day with a few stray puffs that might give me a few more brief flights, in between getting beat up by the fickle inland gusts!

Indeed!.
Sounds like you have a good sail range to get going. I frequently do "puff" sailing. I had to have enough volume to slog my way home when the wind tanks. The 114 is as small as I can go. It can be tacked, but tricky. That and not skilled enough to jibe.. I accepted that I would be swimming every time I wanted to turn around . Fast forward 7 months, and I can comfortably slog home in the worst conditions. Jibing is about 80% , so very happy.

At least I can get home. The kite boarders here have to face the possibility of getting stuck in the middle of the lake.

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jims said..
Had a really good session at the little local puddle today! It was the typical 0-12, gusting to probably upper-teens, but at least it was all mostly coming from the same general compass quadrant today. (except close to shore - it's chaos within about 50-100 yards of shore...)

I was able to pump up onto the foil (with help from the gusts), and felt mostly in control today - more so than the first 2 sessions. It was much more a case of me calling the shots than the foil calling the shots. (mostly, LoL... :-). I did have 2 catapults due to nose diving (one of which was a result of the foiling breaching the surface), but I was able to recover from a number of other nose dive situations that previously would have spelled doom. I was also able to be much more conscious about trying to stay over the board (vs the windsurfing habit of leaning back and raking the sail over), sheeting out vs letting myself get overpowered, keeping a good angle to the wind (though I do still tend to get pointed way too high upwind in the stronger gusts), and about keeping the board more level. (I still tend toward nose-high, but weight shifting was a bit more subtle and controlled today.)

I am finding that when I start the over-control cycle on pitch (ie, the bobbing higher and lower), that I'm better off dumping power and turning down wind to stabilize, or just touch down, re-center, and then go again. I'm also discovering that getting up onto the foil when the board is going too slow is just a recipe for a nose dive. To quote Sensei Dean, "board speed, board speed, board speed".

I was on a 5.0, which was really about the right size for today.

Ironically, I went out primarily to practice uphauling and bobbing around today - just low-wind handling, as I'm way out of practice on that. The flights were an unexpected bonus, and they were definitely the longest and most controlled so far! (I was way more comfortable on the 125l board today, too - I set out with the mindset of "you know how to windsurf, don't be a dumb-ass", and things went much better in terms of stability, handling, tacking, etc.

Fun Time!!!

Try moving your hips, with little movements, forward and back to control board height. It's surprising how little hip movement is required to maintain stable flight. Because the movements are small, you don't over correct and yoyo up and down. It becomes second nature after enough time on water.