I was wondering if I should jump on the bandwagon and see what all the fuss is about but I would have to teach myself there are no foilers, or many finers at my local. I have been hesitant mainly because I am at the stage now where I can do planing step jibes(50% of the time) even more on my smaller boards and I never get catapulted, crash or damage gear anymore, its been a long time since I've dinged a board and I don't really want to have to start fixing/replacing gear again like I did in the early days so I have some questions.

1 Why don't they have small masts say 400mm or so to learn on so you can learn to stabilise the foil from breaching/nose diving without getting too high above the water. Would this work or does the mast have to be 800mm plus for some reason?

2 Would a fanatic flow set up be suitable or are these for experienced foilers only, What should I be looking for in a foil for learning?

3 I have a patrick 140L f-Race with a foil box and a 2007 starboard 161 formula(deep tuttle), can I use either of these for learning?

4 someone once told me that foiling creates bad habits for fining and vice versa, is this true ,can you still switch between fins and foil without too much drama?

Yes you should try it.

Some people like to use a shorter mast eg 60 or 70 cm for a few days but it quickly becomes a hindrance to progressing as there is less margin of error, and yes you don't fall as far when you breach but you do fall more often. 85cm seems to be a reasonable minimum for windfoiling.

If you only foil your finning does become a little rusty, just like it does if you don't sail for a while.

The techniques are different but they are not mutually exclusive.

Hi there! Glad you're getting interested. It took me about a month or two to get used to foiling and finning. Now, I have both boards ready to go. If it's light winds, I take the foil board and I'm all dialed in immediately when I'm on the water. Then, after an hour, let's say the wind comes up too much for my foil board and current sail size rigged. I will swap the sail out and put it on the bump n jump board and off I go, all dialed in to that board as I hit the water. You learn muscle memory for foiling and you keep it for foiling only. So when you change back to finning, your old skill are with you, and you're ready to go. In the beginning, my positioning and foot work was all off when I changed out boards, it took me about 15-30 minutes to get dialed in again. Now, the skills and muscle memory is solid for both boards. I use the foil board and fin board close to the same amount. Perhaps I foil a little more than finning, due too more lighter wind days.

Modern waveboard and freestyle technique translates very well to foiling and vice versa. Slalom or oldschool back footed bump and jump is less similar.
Either way foiling is a bunch of fun.

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mob dog said..
I was wondering if I should jump on the bandwagon and see what all the fuss is about but I would have to teach myself there are no foilers, or many finers at my local. I have been hesitant mainly because I am at the stage now where I can do planing step jibes(50% of the time) even more on my smaller boards and I never get catapulted, crash or damage gear anymore, its been a long time since I've dinged a board and I don't really want to have to start fixing/replacing gear again like I did in the early days so I have some questions.

1 Why don't they have small masts say 400mm or so to learn on so you can learn to stabilise the foil from breaching/nose diving without getting too high above the water. Would this work or does the mast have to be 800mm plus for some reason?

2 Would a fanatic flow set up be suitable or are these for experienced foilers only, What should I be looking for in a foil for learning?

3 I have a patrick 140L f-Race with a foil box and a 2007 starboard 161 formula(deep tuttle), can I use either of these for learning?

4 someone once told me that foiling creates bad habits for fining and vice versa, is this true ,can you still switch between fins and foil without too much drama?

1. It is a bit scared at first but a longer mast makes it much easier. 85 cm is the minimum you need. 95 is good after 4 sessions of being a bit scared of the height.

2. That is a freeride foil. Looks like your boards are race/freerace. Your sails also? Such a foil is nice with a freeride/wave sail. If you have race equipment the set will go faster and you want control above manoeuvrability. Get an foil which you can upgrade to a full race set. Are you sailing on a small lake then you need sth more manoeuvrable.
Start with a bigger wing - size really depends on wind range you like to cover, sail sizes, weight and off course skill level.
So small lake/small sails/manoeuvre - go for something like a Supercruiser under the F-race with a freeride sail. Fun, light and easy.
Other - go for a alu race foil to try. Sounds hard but they are really stable, up/downwind angles are great, high control, much easer to gibe than freerace foils due to the longer fuselage.

3. Yes. Get a surfbent to protect your boards.

4. Yes you can still switch

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mob dog said..
I was wondering if I should jump on the bandwagon and see what all the fuss is about but I would have to teach myself there are no foilers, or many finers at my local. I have been hesitant mainly because I am at the stage now where I can do planing step jibes(50% of the time) even more on my smaller boards and I never get catapulted, crash or damage gear anymore, its been a long time since I've dinged a board and I don't really want to have to start fixing/replacing gear again like I did in the early days so I have some questions.

1 Why don't they have small masts say 400mm or so to learn on so you can learn to stabilise the foil from breaching/nose diving without getting too high above the water. Would this work or does the mast have to be 800mm plus for some reason?

2 Would a fanatic flow set up be suitable or are these for experienced foilers only, What should I be looking for in a foil for learning?

3 I have a patrick 140L f-Race with a foil box and a 2007 starboard 161 formula(deep tuttle), can I use either of these for learning?

4 someone once told me that foiling creates bad habits for fining and vice versa, is this true ,can you still switch between fins and foil without too much drama?

1. Slingshot did have a "school kit" set with three different mast set ups at one stage (or maybe that was jesper here in WA). For an initial taste it was good, gets you on the foil without the nasty catapults from a height. but like a big beginners board, the actual session time you'll use it for, its not worth the spend. Having more height under you gives you more correction time to stop foil outs.


2/3. Initially all you need is a board that won't break under foil load (something with a foil box, or designed to take the loads a foil will put on the board, i.e: "foil approved") Having something a bit wider than the width the foil would be ideal, as it helps to give you the leverage you need to control the foil.


4. Initially i found it hard to adapt to foiling stance. It needs to be much more upright than what i was doing on normal kit. If anything i think its helped kill some of my bad habits i had in normal windsurfing. My stance was not upright enough as it was, foiling kind of forced me to correct the issue. It definitely feels weird changing kit if you've been doing one and not the other for a while. But changing it up constantly, it's quite easy to switch from one to the other.

yes its worth trying, its a lot of fun and you extend your range to light wind days with smaller gear.
- don't start without having fitted a nose protector to your board
- if you catapult keep hanging on the boom so you will never hit the foil wings
Fanatic flow is very good for learning, I would try with the formula probably has a stronger fin box, but the straps would be too outboard, just remove all of them.

One thing needs to be mentioned - with foiling, you can do it without harness or straps (though I prefer both harness and at least front straps). This has allowed more than a couple of locals who were climbing up the intermediate ladder skip the part of struggling with both while trying to learn how to plane. The old wisdom of "you need to be an expert windsurfer to try it" is definitely not true.

The first time you foil you will think, "what maniac made these foil masts so tall?". By the 3rd or 4th, you'll be happy to have at least a 75 cm mast (as above, I'd recommend 85). I had to use a 65cm mast in a particularly shallow spot a couple of weeks back and it absolutely requires accurate height management even with very flat water. It's a lot harder than using an 85 or my usual 95s.

Yes, it's fun. If you live in a place with light or variable winds like I do, it's a godsend.

I say "don't do it"! You will only get addicted and might need therapy. You will be required to attend weekly meetings that are located at the beach.

Just do it!

As others have said (and as a foil coach) going with a shorter mast will lead to you actually foiling out much quicker, so go with minimum 70cm mast and then quickly work up to 85cm or 90+cm. A longer mast will give you more time to react if things are going pear shaped.

You can pretty much use any board for learning on (we used regular slalom boards back in 2016/17 because that's all we had).
Just make sure the fin box can take the stress, there is a lot of pressure on that fin box, so tie a leash around the foil mast if in doubt.

The very first time you head out, just windsurf the foil like a regular fin, then gradually lean back on the back leg (just gently) if you leanback too fast you will launch upwards, it looks great from the beach not so much fun for the rider though once you feel lift, bring it back down using rig pressure (you can stay un hooked from the harness line as well).

Skip the board and foil up and down until you feel confident for longer flight time...

You will be addicted like the rest of us and having fun like in this video!

Hey Mobdog.
Definitely give it a go. Your threshold for getting up and going in light winds will be so much better than finning. And you can use smaller sails with ease.
Mast lengths - you used to be able to get some pretty short masts (40cm), but I haven't seen anyone producing them for years. Re mast length, work out where you're going to be sailing. If it's shallow, then I'd be tempted to go for a shorter mast (say 60cm). If it's plenty deep, then a 75 would be ideal to learn on. Having a longer mast helps especially if you're in chop but it's not critical to having a good time. You can always upgrade at a later time.
The more modern designs are generally really good. That said, there are modern foils that are orientated towards advanced riders. For learning, I'd avoid these. Most brands have a low to medium aspect foil which will have a fair whack of surface area (1600cm+) which would be good to learn on. Also depends on your weight. Big sailors will want bigger foils to progress on - so for light wind and sailors 90kg+, a foiler might be looking for something with 1800cm2+ area to start on? But it depends on your intentions as well.
The right foil for you is a difficult decision to make. What are you intending to do with foiling? Is it to get going in lighter winds? Do you think you'll want to do it instead of finning? Are you intending to race? Bit hard to know at this stage, but if you want to foil in windy conditions, maybe a smaller foil will suit better? If you can borrow one to try, it will be a good starting point.
I'd check out lots of foil brands and youtube reviews on the foils. There's stacks of info out there which will steer you towards what you should want. Moses, Naish, Axis, Fanatic are all making foils that are highly regarded. No doubt other sailors can add to the list. Youtube is your friend. :)

Starting setup - I'd be reluctant to get any of the really early gen foils. My 2017 Naish 1220 is a piece of rubbish compared to the later foils.
I'm 70 kg and 175 cm with a lot of windsurfing experience. I foil in sub 15 knots. Over 15 I'll be back on the windsurf gear. So I've orientated towards a big foil to get going in as light winds as possible. Now have a Naish jetfoil 2000 and Axis 1060. Both are excellent to learn and progress on. And head towards a longer fuselage as it can add a little more stability to the setup. Once you've worked out what you think you want and what you want it for, get back on here and ask us what we think. We should be able to steer you towards a good setup.
As for using your older boards, I'd be REALLY careful about doing this. I have heard and seen examples of these older boards being used and developing cracks around the fin box after not many uses. I guess it depends on how precious you are with the board. If care factor is low, then see how it goes? But keep in mind a catastrophic failure might end up with foil on the bottom of the ocean and that could be pretty bad.
Re habits, I think you employ different techniques for each discipline. I wouldn't say it teaches you bad habits. you just need to readjust.

For learning, try and get flattish water. Sizable chop/waves will make life much more difficult. If the wind is really strong, reduce rig size. Generally work out what you would use for windsurfing, then drop sail size by 1.5-2m and you should be close. Practice lifting off for a short time (1-2 seconds), then touching down again. Build up the flight time gradually. When you're up on the foil, it reacts WAAAAY faster than a conventional board, so minor adjustments on the foil will have much bigger board reactions.
Check out vids on learning to windfoil. There's heaps of them.

make nose protector using 1/2" dense gym mat eva covered with 1/16" white plastic (waterproof wall board $20 4'x8' sheet). Used Loctite 200 spray contact cement to glue together and black Gorilla tape to cover ends and nose. The plastic top layer spreads the impact across the eva and keeps impact off board, have hit it plenty of times with no damage to board. Also protects board nose if you drag kit onto beach with board upside down and board rear end on top of mast/sail and nose pointing towards the water. I have front foot straps, they help to keep the upside down board "caught" on the mast, and keeps foil from turning board over in shore break as you drag kit onto beach.