Hi everybody,
Got some questions/observation on setup.

Me. 140lbs/64kg. 5'8" tall 30" inseam, apeish arms.
Fin board transitioning from..
Tabou 125 rocket, 7.5 sailworks retro.

Foil gear
SS114 V3 I76 wind foil package.
5.3 goya fringe sail.

Setup foil mast track almost all the way back. I think there is one more hash mark further back I can go.
Position B on the mast to fuse connection.
Sail mast foot mostly all the way back, maybe another inch I could go.
Boom height at top of shoulder.

Status.
I've been on the board 5 times. I can get flying no problem and can maintain fairly stable flight. I'm no where near being able to jibe.

My main question concerns a balanced feel and getting comfortable while flying. After the first couple outings, I decided to remove all the foot straps as I was dancing all over them trying to figure things out etc. As I progressed through the next couple sessions, It seemed I was always having to tilt the rig forward to keep from breaching. Especially when a gust would hit. I was noting my foot position was also forward almost on the wing foil foot strap position. My logic for the next sessions was to move the foil back, thinking weight more in front of the wing would help. I also installed only the front foot straps in the most inboard front position (not the wing foil position). Last nights session was the best so far, but I still have to have the rig forward biased which is wrenching my lower back, and I can't really use the harness with the rig tilted that far forward. I thought about moving the sail mast forward for more foot pressure to keep the nose down on the next session, but that moves the mast further away from the front foot straps, so don't know if that would help.

So... stabilizer shim. Does anyone use the foil as is out of the box ?. Or is stabilizer shimming typical. My guess is shimming the front of the stab up would pitch the board nose down letting me tilt the rig back for a more balanced ride.

I'm new to all this, so any help appreciated.

Matt

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You should not need to use a shim. The foiling stance is different than the sailing stance. For foiling most of your weight should need on your front foot. Also you can help keep the nose down by leaning into the harness lines more

On that board I believe I had the 76 all the way back and used the very forward wind foil front strap position.

The other thing is that if I am reaching and a gust comes I often need to turn up wind to avoid breaching. This is more of a time on water thing.

If the board is breaching often without a gust or when you are heading upwind then I would consider sliding mast track forward.

Yep, agree with thedoor. Likely need the mast base further forward so you can stay more sheeted in with the sail in a comfortable position. You also may be reaching too much, and either go harder upwind or downwind to deal with the lift or spoil some of the apparent wind. I blow up on reaches on slingshot or my race foil when I try to just beam reach and a gust hits.

Freeride foiling, use the exact same sail mast foot to front foot distance.
My sail mast foot is 21.5" forward of the center of my front footstraps, and I always use the front straps.

You probably need to adjust your technique to be more upright with your weight over the front foot, but its okay to ease into that by making the setup more backfoot balanced. Start with moving the foilmast back & mastfoot forward. I wouldnt shim the stab as it was not inteded to be shimmed (meaning you should be able to find the optimal setup without a shim). Once you start feeling more comfortable you might want to make your setup more compact again to loosen up the feel!

I think the final answer to all issues is time on the foil!

Most experienced foilers probably try to set up their gear so around 60% weight on front foot when just foiling, add more forward weight shift when a gusts hits.
Unfortunately, that setup is opposite from what you learned windsurfing, unless you are an accomplished freestyler.

Thanks everyone,
More foil time make sense, Thanks for the reality check. I also need to learn how to go upwind. Winds were 7-18 knots/gusting.
I found I get overpowered quickly, and turn downwind feathering the sail to maintain control. I was worried about a 5.3 sail being too small, but looking at all the video's guys that weigh more, are using 4ish sizes in 18 knots. Crazy from a finning perspective.

I have the same board and foil and weigh 67kgs. My set-up:
Sail mast centre or back from centre 1-2cms. Foil set in B position. Foil mast all the way back unless wind is light. Front footstraps in forward outboard windfoil position, single back strap.
From 14-15 knots I prefer the 4.5m, can go smaller depending on the gustiness of the wind. By 20 knots I really should be on a smaller sail but don't have one as yet.
I find the I76 to be very "lifty" for my weight. When on the foil, weight is predominantly on front foot, rarely get into the back strap. When powered up I always head upwind or downwind, beam reaching only results in breaching. Downwinding is what this type of foil is all about, Try pointing as deep as possible so that there is no pressure in the sail, even for short periods, riding the foil and using the swells. And this technique will lead into the gybe technique.
Enjoy the experience!

I have the same board and foil sounds like your close in your setup i run my foil at a little less than 3.5 but front footstraps full outboard and all the way forward seem to have a bit better control like that. Mast track toward the back for lighter wind ,push forward for more control but I just like to run as small of sail as I can get away with.Upwind
and beam reaching I like to put a lot of weight in the harness lines and push it hard as I can.Time on the water will teach you to feel and listen to what the foil is doing and if your going for it your still going to blowup all good fun!

Thanks Nick/Kdog, It helps to get a reference from someone in similar gear,weight and setup
I got a lot of foil time in Saturday. Front straps all the way forward and out towards the rail helped a lot. Gonna play with sail mast foot and sail tuning next. Curious to see how much down haul will de-power and see if I can get more wind range. Playing with the fringe on the dock, it's really soft and I can see leach tension drop way down under lots of down haul. Don't know how that will translate on the water though. Next time...

Anytime i have a new board I spend a couple of sessions adjusting things within the same session

It typically goes something like this, numbers only work for freeride foiling

1) remove back straps
2) Put front foot strap all the way forward
3) Put foil mast about 36 in from front strap (beginners might use 40in)
4) put universal about 12 in from front strap (beginners might use 20in)
5) Sail
6a) if fail to rise move universal back (if cannot move universal back then move front strap back)
6b) if breaching frequently, stand more on front foot, if still breaching then move universal forwards

Once i have that dialed I will see where my back foot hangs out and then add back strap (somewhat optional)

When I switch to a new foil I keep universal and straps the same but will need to adjust the foil mast position in the track to achieve appropriate balance.

Most of that was off topic, getting back to sails, I prefer flat sails and low downhaul (I will add downhaul if the wind picks up). Lots of the fringe guys seem to go for deep draft but a smaller size.

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WsurfAustin said..
Thanks everyone,
More foil time make sense, Thanks for the reality check. I also need to learn how to go upwind. Winds were 7-18 knots/gusting.
I found I get overpowered quickly, and turn downwind feathering the sail to maintain control. I was worried about a 5.3 sail being too small, but looking at all the video's guys that weigh more, are using 4ish sizes in 18 knots. Crazy from a finning perspective.

You might also try sheeting IN and heading upwind to manage a gust. The apparent wind will climb but the angle of attack gets so fine that you're much less likely to foil out.

That always places me WAAAY too far upwind, forcing me to unhook, step out of backstrap, and ride windswells back downwind.

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Awalkspoiled said..

WsurfAustin said..
Thanks everyone,
More foil time make sense, Thanks for the reality check. I also need to learn how to go upwind. Winds were 7-18 knots/gusting.
I found I get overpowered quickly, and turn downwind feathering the sail to maintain control. I was worried about a 5.3 sail being too small, but looking at all the video's guys that weigh more, are using 4ish sizes in 18 knots. Crazy from a finning perspective.

You might also try sheeting IN and heading upwind to manage a gust. The apparent wind will climb but the angle of attack gets so fine that you're much less likely to foil out.

Ya thanks, that's what I was working on. It certainly helps up to a point. The scenario was like this all day... slog, puff rolls in, start foiling relaxed under control, puff keeps ramping up, sheet in hard head up wind, lean forward front foot pressure, still working, puff increases, I try to maintain to the point where I'm barely moving, but somehow still foiling. LoL. Finally stall and drop off foil, or crash. Next I'll try turning off the wind, de-power and coast downhill. Like LeeD eluded to, gotta come back eventually. Finning, I was always working to get up wind. Not a problem on foil, I like it.

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thedoor said..
Anytime i have a new board I spend a couple of sessions adjusting things within the same session

It typically goes something like this, numbers only work for freeride foiling

1) remove back straps
2) Put front foot strap all the way forward
3) Put foil mast about 36 in from front strap (beginners might use 40in)
4) put universal about 12 in from front strap (beginners might use 20in)
5) Sail
6a) if fail to rise move universal back (if cannot move universal back then move front strap back)
6b) if breaching frequently, stand more on front foot, if still breaching then move universal forwards

Once i have that dialed I will see where my back foot hangs out and then add back strap (somewhat optional)

When I switch to a new foil I keep universal and straps the same but will need to adjust the foil mast position in the track to achieve appropriate balance.

Most of that was off topic, getting back to sails, I prefer flat sails and low downhaul (I will add downhaul if the wind picks up). Lots of the fringe guys seem to go for deep draft but a smaller size.

Thanks for all the good info. Door, I'll keep working it. All you guys make it look easy.

When foiling first came 4 years ago, a whole lotta people THOUGHT it was easy and lacked physical work.
Turns out it's as hard as windsurfing, but requires a different skillet, and much more mental awareness.
Be aware of the wind coming down to you and what you need to do to maintain flight.

I hate spellcheck!
SKILL SET!

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LeeD said..
When foiling first came 4 years ago, a whole lotta people THOUGHT it was easy and lacked physical work.
Turns out it's as hard as windsurfing, but requires a different skillet, and much more mental awareness.
Be aware of the wind coming down to you and what you need to do to maintain flight.

I agree

Basic foiling in straight lines is superfun because the core feeling of flying is so addictive.
But like any windsurfing discipline it takes TOW and stacks of effort to gain proper foil skills.
Especially on the ocean. Luckily it's a fun journey.

Quite a few windfoilers moved to winging before skilling up enough to fully appreciate foiling with a sail.
My guess is some will come back. Whatever, all forms of foiling are awesome

Sorry - perhaps a daft newbie question, but what do people mean when they say head downwind when you are overpowered. Won't this increase the speed of the board and therefore increase the chances of breaching? Sounds a bit terrifying!!

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TroyMcClure said..
Sorry - perhaps a daft newbie question, but what do people mean when they say head downwind when you are overpowered. Won't this increase the speed of the board and therefore increase the chances of breaching? Sounds a bit terrifying!!

Yes, A little bit downwind and you power up and risk breaching, but we turn way more down wind than a broadreach and can stay on the foil. Sheeting out a lot obviously.

Some race foilers go so fast off the wind they can stay sheeted in like they are reaching.

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TroyMcClure said..
Sorry - perhaps a daft newbie question, but what do people mean when they say head downwind when you are overpowered. Won't this increase the speed of the board and therefore increase the chances of breaching? Sounds a bit terrifying!!

Yes if done at the wrong time like during a strong gust if you turn off and go deep downwind the sail will lose power and the foil will start to slow down of course my example is for flat water.If your on ocean swell you may find that riding that swell will speed you up to the point of breaching.I know that after 2.5 seasons I still have a lot to learn but having lots of fun with the learning process.

Similar to Formula sailing, the transition from powered upwind to survival downwind must be done with confidence and total commitment.
Bend knees, weight balls of feet, arch back, and head deeper than your upwind angle.

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TroyMcClure said..
Sorry - perhaps a daft newbie question, but what do people mean when they say head downwind when you are overpowered. Won't this increase the speed of the board and therefore increase the chances of breaching? Sounds a bit terrifying!!

You lessen sail pressure by downwinding at speed - so if it's blowing 25 knots and you're flying downwind at 20 knots you only have 5 knots in the sail to manage. Keeping sheeted in maintains pressure through the mast base on the foil to counter swell acceleration lift.
After 25m or so you'll slow down (due to decrease in sail pressure) - carve back crosswind to pick up speed again. In big swells you can hold the dead downwind flights longer.
Turning downwind - carve hard and as fast as you can in a gust (preferably off a swell), so that you don't lose speed in the turn and load up the sail.

I'm not sure how the theory works in less wind i.e. when flying downwind at speeds greater than true wind speed - presumably the resultant true wind/apparent wind vector moves forward?
In practice it seems the same technique (first paragraph) holds for both strong and light winds.
Be good to hear others experiences



Even tiny river windswells pack a punch to carve off to initiate a turn downwind

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LeeD said..
When foiling first came 4 years ago, a whole lotta people THOUGHT it was easy and lacked physical work.
Turns out it's as hard as windsurfing, but requires a different skillet, and much more mental awareness.
Be aware of the wind coming down to you and what you need to do to maintain flight.

Hahaa, Ya that's what I thought when I saw the videos of people gracefully crusing through chop with what appears to be little effort. Well at age 59 , I get exhausted quicker than I used to. Funny though, it reminds me of learning windsurfing in 75'. Our sailing club bought a few and no one had ever seen one before, no lessons etc. I flopped around for 2 weeks before I got it figured out. 90% of the exhaustion was repeatedly uphauling the sail. Seems like old times... LOL. Anyway, good to have all the experts here on the forum. I'm learning at a pretty good pace. Just need a lot more water time.

Edit: Man those drone video's are cool. A whole nother skill set I guess..

Yeah, '83 was my 1st day.
Rocket 99 with 6.1 sail, 10-25 knot sideshore at Lake Merced.
Not too successful, but 30 yard runs were multiple.
Needless to say, I earned later on I need a 4.5 sail in such winds.

Great explanations, thanks everyone. I'll give heading downwind a go next time I'm out!

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azymuth said..

TroyMcClure said..
Sorry - perhaps a daft newbie question, but what do people mean when they say head downwind when you are overpowered. Won't this increase the speed of the board and therefore increase the chances of breaching? Sounds a bit terrifying!!

You lessen sail pressure by downwinding at speed - so if it's blowing 25 knots and you're flying downwind at 20 knots you only have 5 knots in the sail to manage. Keeping sheeted in maintains pressure through the mast base on the foil to counter swell acceleration lift.
After 25m or so you'll slow down (due to decrease in sail pressure) - carve back crosswind to pick up speed again. In big swells you can hold the dead downwind flights longer.
Turning downwind - carve hard and as fast as you can in a gust (preferably off a swell), so that you don't lose speed in the turn and load up the sail.

I'm not sure how the theory works in less wind i.e. when flying downwind at speeds greater than true wind speed - presumably the resultant true wind/apparent wind vector moves forward?
In practice it seems the same technique (first paragraph) holds for both strong and light winds.
Be good to hear others experiences



Even tiny river windswells pack a punch to carve off to initiate a turn downwind

Thank you, this is the best explanation I've seen for dealing with higher winds.

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LeeD said..
Yeah, '83 was my 1st day.
Rocket 99 with 6.1 sail, 10-25 knot sideshore at Lake Merced.
Not too successful, but 30 yard runs were multiple.
Needless to say, I earned later on I need a 4.5 sail in such winds.

Rocket 99 was my first "short board" too. I bought it new in 1984 and struggled with it for a year. Worst board ever. But it made every board I bought after it seem awesome in comparison.

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azymuth said..

TroyMcClure said..
Sorry - perhaps a daft newbie question, but what do people mean when they say head downwind when you are overpowered. Won't this increase the speed of the board and therefore increase the chances of breaching? Sounds a bit terrifying!!

You lessen sail pressure by downwinding at speed - so if it's blowing 25 knots and you're flying downwind at 20 knots you only have 5 knots in the sail to manage. Keeping sheeted in maintains pressure through the mast base on the foil to counter swell acceleration lift.
After 25m or so you'll slow down (due to decrease in sail pressure) - carve back crosswind to pick up speed again. In big swells you can hold the dead downwind flights longer.
Turning downwind - carve hard and as fast as you can in a gust (preferably off a swell), so that you don't lose speed in the turn and load up the sail.

I'm not sure how the theory works in less wind i.e. when flying downwind at speeds greater than true wind speed - presumably the resultant true wind/apparent wind vector moves forward?
In practice it seems the same technique (first paragraph) holds for both strong and light winds.
Be good to hear others experiences



Even tiny river windswells pack a punch to carve off to initiate a turn downwind

Good suggestions here....thanks. I've been attempting downwind carving on swells and have ended up breaching (and crashing) quite a bit. I'll try staying sheeted in during the carves.

Rocket 99 was my 1st day EVER windsurfing..
2 weeks later, 85 liter 8'10" Seatrend poly glass.