Hi,
i am learning how to foil (on 85 wide slalom board, neilpryde Flight FR foil) - what sail size / wind conditions would you suggest I start with? I am 100kgs and long term I hope to foil in light winds only before I can get onto the smaller slalom gear.
thanks

I think it depends on how athletic you are to some degree, and on what the local conditions are to a great degree. If you're athletic and are able to pump onto the foil then once you've got past the first learning phase, then you'll probably use 5.4-6.0 a lot, in winds as low as 12mph. I'm 100kg too, but 65 years old and just can't pump all that much, and my most used sail is a 7.0 Flyer, and I often wish it were just little bigger. On a foil, a lightweight 7.5-8.5 would work in the lightest winds and my 5.8 would come out as soon as that became a handful. The gaps in your quiver can be much bigger on foil than on fin, and my 7.0-5.8 is really too close.

As far as conditions go, it'll be easiest to learn in flat water and fairly strong, steady breezes - 15mph would be great and 20 ok too, because you'd spend a lot of time flying and less time learning to pump. Ultimately you'll be foiling 12 for sure and even in 10 if you're athletic, but not at first.When you're beginning, I'd suggest using a sail only a meter smaller than you'd use on a fin, even though eventually you'll be two meters smaller or even more. I use a 5.3 to foil when I'd be powered on an 8.6 with a fin.

What I wouldn't do is buy a foil sail right away. You'll want to have a dedicated foil sail for the most typical conditions you encounter, and it's worth spending some real money on that sail, but when you're starting out you won't know what size to get. Lots of skilled guys around you, in 15, may be on 4.5 for instance, but they're mostly going to be lighter than you and if you buy the same sail you're going to be pumping all the time. Just start out on your own current stuff and a little smaller than you'd rig for a fin and you'll be fine until you have enough experience to pick the right dedicated sail.

Agree with Awalkspoiled
I used an 8.0 in light winds trying to get my slingshot foils going, but as soon as I learned to pump on them I stayed to 6.6 and below.

But, keep in mind the beginner advice that: If it's big enough to waterstart, it's too big.

It really helps to get someone to show you how to pump. For the life of me I couldn't figure out how for quite some time.

Agree with the above posts. Beginner foiler here. Steady winds are ideal. Flat water is a plus. A few days ago was my first session to experience flat water and steady wind. Made flying level, high and relatively fast effortless. I rig a sail one size too small to make minimal effortless water starting possible. With the Slingshot foils used it's not the lack of sail size that limits top speed. The light wind i84 wing is really slow. Slow stall speed. Slow top end. Felt like on my flat water session it reached terminal velocity.

Learning to ride a foil was crashing frequently. Invested in a SurfBent to protect the board. Pulled out of storage the '00 Naish Edge 5.5M. Bit of dacron sail repair tape and it was ready to go. I'm 60kg. Initially a bit of an effort to get up on the foil due to zero skill. Then a bit of effort to stay up. Again due to skill issue. Today using foil specific sails. Favorite is the 4.5M for 11 kts and up. Pumping skills are important to allow use of smaller than what you think you need regarding sail size. Not really convinced that a foil specific sail is necessary to learn on. Might allow for more rapid progression. Too big a sail might inhibit developing pumping skills. Bit like a friend who doesn't use a sail sized that would not allow for water starting. His pumping skills suck. Getting to be normal for me to be foiling and him sailboarding with a foil for a keel.

Somewhere between 7 and 8 m2 depending on wind strength

It's important for a beginner to rig for the gusts and not the lulls - and that's why the advice to rig down a meter works. You'll need the power of a gust to get up and off the water but, once you're up, the reduction in drag means you'll be needing a lot less power from the sail. As a rule of thumb, at low speeds, the foil reduces board drag by about 30% which is why it makes sense to start with a smaller sail otherwise you'll be over powered the moment you come out of the water.

With time and experience, you can sail the same size sail as fins or as much as 2-3 meters smaller depending on your objectives.

While foiling is a lightwind godsend, don't start off in too light of winds. As others point out, pumping is a skill and try to stick to learning one skill at a time. Flat water, 15-20, steadier winds if possible.

And, remove the back straps.

Lots of good threads in the past here. Worth digging around to see what issues others had as they learned so you at least can a glimpse of the process through their experiences.

And, let us know how it goes!


Edit: EVERYONE says they'll only foil in light winds ... at first. Foiling in higher winds is an absolute blast, too. You might not do it exclusively but it'll sneak up on you.

Sail size is based on windspeed, just like windsurfing.
Use 2 meters smaller than slalom sailing.

Beginner windfoiler here too, 1,5 hrs lesson on beginner gear and 2 sessions on my gear, but at 61kg, to give an idea for the lightweight beginners:

Jp free foil 115 es (70cm wide), outside foot positions, np glide wind hp 15.
4.7 blade was good for about 15kts gusts to get on foil without pumping.
5.5 blade was good for about 12kts gusts , small pumps was needed.

I found it easier to get up without harness (mast foot pressure effects lift, probably sail type too) at gusts, and to keep up at luls, i get into harness otherwise to save energy.
Moving harness lines towards mast helped to sheet out when i was powered up. Maybe a little shorter harness lines would be better for underpowered conditions(?), but increasing boom height was fine too.

With THAT foil, THAT board and YOUR weight you'll want 7-8m. Also maximum lift on the stabilizer.

I also started foiling on a 85 cm slalom board this summer with a free ride foil. At 90 kg I found no cam sails between 5.8 to 6.6 to work best for learning. For your weight maybe one size up. Big enough to provide stability and power and small enough to be easy to pump and nimble to adjust once on the foil. These sail sizes works well for around 15 knots of wind where I would normally use an 8.4 with fin.

With that specific foil & your weight (I, 95kg, tried the pinky, and later the bluey with carbon wings), I'd rig big! 7-8m. Wouldnt go larger than that, your board will become to small as its a normal slalomboard. Also shim the stab for + lift, mastfoot back and boom all the way up in the cutout.

Just sail in whatever conditions you normally sail with a fin, and rig 1-2 size smaller sail. Easiest to learn on nice 15kt days. If you want to accelerate your learning process, just throw the fins away for 6 months.

Aeroegnr is def on the money with:
"But, keep in mind the beginner advice that: If it's big enough to waterstart, it's too big."
Flat water essential, especially when you come to a corner! Could only understand gybing on flat water. Kalbarri and Port Gregory in WA sorted me out

I've had 4 goes on my foil (or 6 if you count 2 drifting around with a 7.5m). So I'm no expert, but can say that you need some wind to make it easier. Drifting around waiting for a gust can be frustrating.
The 3 slalom sailors around where I live all seem to use about 1 size down from their normal sailing, which is generally maxed out. I think they only go foiling in lighter winds though. They are 80-100kg. They are using their slalom sails as well, but I think they have kept their older sails for learning on. I did see one of them using a Point7 no cam at one point, but think he didnt use that much.
I've done the same with my Ezzys, I'm using old sails I havent used for years. I use 1m smaller than windsurfing, my foil is an AFS W85 with F800-1080 wing, which looks similar to your NP foil. I think people using 2m smaller sails than for windsurfing must have very low aspect powerful foils or a lot of technique. I need a bit of speed to get flying. Ultimately, it will be faster than a low aspect foil. Trying to get flying without gaining 6-8 knots of board speed first just results in unstable flying.
Where I am learning it is a bit gusty, so will be trying another spot today. Steady wind should make it a lot easier.
I can water start in the gusts but that does make things interesting when a gust hits when I'm flying.
My last learning point was have the harness lines a long way forward compared to windsurfing, so I can sheet out easily when required. Having them set for windsurfing so I cant sheet out when a gust hits to make the most of the gust seems odd, but so much of foiling technique is the opposite of windsurfing.

ps I use an old Ezzy wave SE 5.8m, Cheetah 7m, and Lions in 6.5m & 7.5m. Having a choice of sails in small increments is useful as when learning having exactly the right amount of power helps.

At 95 kg, my Flyer 7.0 is my most-used sail. You definitely want a 7.0 in your quiver. I also use an adjustable outhaul to extend the sail's range.

Select to expand quote

Grantmac said..
With THAT foil, THAT board and YOUR weight you'll want 7-8m. Also maximum lift on the stabilizer.

Agree, probably 8.0 max, will keep the rig weight down and not be a bear to uphaul. My Aerotech Freespeed 8.0 is my light wind sail 8-12 knots (with max 12 gusts) but I am 86 kg. But it took me a lot of time to get up in those conditions. For you 12-14 knots with an 8.0 should be doable.

Though the foil is really important, and the width of your board too, someone here said for every 10 cm increase in board width you need another meter of sail. I am on a 80 cm Goya Bolt 135 L and AFS W95 foil with F1080 cm2 wing (relatively high aspect) in light winds.

hi
similar weight, supercruiser foil. i use 7.8 no cams up to ~17knt and then switch to 5.7.
additional rule: don't leave the boom !!!. especially when catapulting...

enjoy the trip