I'm finning and foiling on my old 90's-era sails - a mix of North Sails - Idra (single-cam, 5.0), Infinity (single-cam, 3.6, 4.3), Pyro (2-cam, 6.0). The Infinities and the Idra are getting pretty threadbare, and becoming worrisome that one is going to blow out on me out on the water one of these days.

I'm in Hatteras, and have found a few used/consignment sails, and am contemplating whether they might be a sensible purchase.

I'm about 137 lbs, have a Slingshot Wizard 125 for foiling, and mainly on fin on my 70 liter Seatrend ATV any more. (When it's plenty windy.). If I get on the water 6-10 times in a year, it's been a good year, so I'm very much of the used mindset.

The sails under consideration are:

- Simmer SCR 5.0 - 4 cambers - seems a bit extreme, but maybe good for foiling? 5.0 is probably my most-used sail, overall, but I' not sure a full-on race sail is going to be very flexible for this most-used size? (This sail is 2-3 years old, but doesn't appear to have ever been used.)
- AeroTech Aerofoil 5.7 - 2 cambers - probably the size I need the least, as my 6.0 Pyro is 2 cams and is my newest sail, so it's in good shape. But, worthy of consideration. This sail is in pretty good shape.
- AeroTech AirX 4.7 - no cams, but as a newer sail, this might be a good replacement for my old Idra 5.0, perhaps? (Granted, the Idra has a cam, but it's a pretty floppy sail, overall). This one is also in pretty good shape.
- North Voodoo 4.7 - no cams - this is a 2006-2008 era sail, but is of course at least 15+ years newer than my Infinities (but they are each single cam sails, and I like them a awful lot, I'm just losing structural trust in them...) This one is pretty well used, but no rips, tears, panel replacements, etc.
- North Voodoo 4.0 - no cams. This one is also well-used, but has no apparent structural problems.

These are all SDM sails. I have North flex-top sails of appropriate length for these sails. (I think the Simmer is made for a constant-curve mast, though...)

Anyway, I'm not itching to buy, but if any of these make sense, they're available at-hand right now.

Thanks for any input!

Jim

I think you will experience a massive increase in handling and performance (low and high end) if you spend a bit more and get some newer equipment. Probably you will need only 1 or 2 sails.

Your foil board is not designed for cammed sails.

There are some sails like the Ezzy Cross that are very suitable for both foil and fin. Very stable and easy to rig.

I have the Ezzy Hydra Pro's from 2021 (8,5 and 7,0), had issues air gybing them in foil so I had the weird extra part removed.
Now they are similar to the Ezzy Hydra Sport (8,1 and 6,7). Hydra's in 2022 no longer in the range, they moved to the Cross.

With the bottom cut I love using them in fin and foil now. Really pleasant blasting sails, very stable in gusts, very big wind range. Strong built. Light.

I don't know about the wind speeds you will use your equipment but with the right sail size for foil and fin you can cover a huge range with just 1 sail. I can use the 6.7 from 11 -18 knots wind in foil, from 16-24 knots in fin with 90kg.
Probably other brands have options too. I think Point 7 has a hybrid sail with 1 cam.

I have been using Areotech Freespeed sails, and now more recently a Phantom sails, for years for foiling, they are all SDM constant curve sails, so make sure you have CC masts, or check with Areotech to see what those sails use. Great support from the Aerotech crew at Sandy Point.

Of those, imho, the Aerotech AirX and it should work fine on an rdm. The Voodoo 4.0 is too small and the Simmer is definitely a no-no for what you are doing. The Voodoo 4.7 should work on an rdm but I'd be concerned about its lifespan if the AirX is in good shape. btw, rdm is definitely preferable since I'm spending your money.

There's nothing wrong with a cammed sail on your rig if you get a proper freeride foil sail (e.g Sailworks Flyer, Severne Foil Glide). But those are very different than a fin slalom race sail in design and feel.

At our size, a 4.7, maybe 5.4 and 6.5 would be a nice quiver with some overlap. When you are more skilled, you could go 4.7-6.0/6.5. For where we live I'd hesitate to go smaller than 6.5 or there will be a lot of summer days where you'll be frustrated.

The 4.0 really wouldn't be useful for foiling until the wind is 20+ consistently and it sounds like you'll be finning in those conditions. While you are spending money, if you want to keep finning, keep an eye out for a modern 85ish l board. 70 is small except for those absolutely ripping days (again, imho). The newer board will have much more range than the ATV and much easier to sail.

Again, spending money that's not mine - echoing Robertos: spending money on better gear gets you a lot more time on the water. And the time you are on the water is easier and more fun. It's super common for when people upgrade their gear to say, "wow, I really wish I'd done this a while ago."

The Aerofoil is the only one I'd look at, and I'd look hard if the price were right. It's very similar in outline to Sandman's Freespeeds, and similar in build quality too. Works well on both fin and foil, and tunable. The AirX are just not all that stable, no matter what the size, although more recent versions may be a little better.They tend to sit very flat so the low-end isn't brilliant. Definitely a price-point offering although they do have the merit of being very light. Voodoo 4.7 is a very good size for foiling, but at that age you can't reasonably expect many more years from it.

Jims, I'm unfamiliar with the sails you mentioned. But any sail less than 5 years old, with no cams and relatively high aspect ratio will be good. 5 batten onshore wave / bump and jump sails like the Severne Gator, Naish Force 5 and Duotone Supersession will work well on foil and fin. Every brand makes one.

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Awalkspoiled said..
The Aerofoil is the only one I'd look at, and I'd look hard if the price were right. It's very similar in outline to Sandman's Freespeeds, and similar in build quality too. Works well on both fin and foil, and tunable. The AirX are just not all that stable, no matter what the size, although more recent versions may be a little better.They tend to sit very flat so the low-end isn't brilliant. Definitely a price-point offering although they do have the merit of being very light. Voodoo 4.7 is a very good size for foiling, but at that age you can't reasonably expect many more years from it.

Completely missed that one when originally responding to his post. Yes, that would be a good option, too.

Thanks All for the input and advice. I ended up going with the 5.7 Aerofoil, and the 4.7 Air X. It sounds like the Aerofoil is a pretty safe bet, and would be a good size in my quiver - my 5.0 is old and floppy, and my 6.0, while a decent sail, just feels a bit weird to foil on - it seems to create a lot of lift, and the board feels like it's sort of hunting around the whole time I'm up on the foil with the 6.0. (It's kind of old school in that it has a pretty long boom, too, so I seem to have to hold it in a pretty forward position to get things to balance out.) The 4.7 Air X sounds a bit less of a certain win, but for the price, and it's pretty darned good condition, I figured it'd be worth a gamble, and if not, I should be able to sell it sometime.

Unfortunately, I didn't get anything in the low-4 range, which is really where I sort of most need something, as I'm reaching a point of some concern about heading out in seriously windy conditions on them given their age and condition, but the truth is, I'm far more likely to find myself foiling in the 5-6 range than I am finning in the 3-4 range, so I'll just keep my eye out for something smaller as time goes by.

Thanks Again for everyone's help - it is very reassuring to be able to come here and get good advice!

Can you send me the lead on the 5.0 SCR?

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jims said..
Thanks All for the input and advice. I ended up going with the 5.7 Aerofoil, and the 4.7 Air X. It sounds like the Aerofoil is a pretty safe bet, and would be a good size in my quiver - my 5.0 is old and floppy, and my 6.0, while a decent sail, just feels a bit weird to foil on - it seems to create a lot of lift, and the board feels like it's sort of hunting around the whole time I'm up on the foil with the 6.0. (It's kind of old school in that it has a pretty long boom, too, so I seem to have to hold it in a pretty forward position to get things to balance out.) The 4.7 Air X sounds a bit less of a certain win, but for the price, and it's pretty darned good condition, I figured it'd be worth a gamble, and if not, I should be able to sell it sometime.

Unfortunately, I didn't get anything in the low-4 range, which is really where I sort of most need something, as I'm reaching a point of some concern about heading out in seriously windy conditions on them given their age and condition, but the truth is, I'm far more likely to find myself foiling in the 5-6 range than I am finning in the 3-4 range, so I'll just keep my eye out for something smaller as time goes by.

Thanks Again for everyone's help - it is very reassuring to be able to come here and get good advice!

I had a look on Aerotech's web site. Both the 5.7 and 4.7 look like good purchases. The 5.7 Aerofoil should be a good light wind sail, but at your weight, I recon you'll really enjoy using the 4.7 Air X in anything over 12 kts

Ooh, the Aerofoil is a really comfy sail! I used it for 2-3 hours today in winds in the 15-22 mph range. It's sweet spot seemed to be around 17-20 for me, but I was able to get it up and going in as low as 14-15. (I presently suck at pumping in lower winds, so I'm sure there's lower-end room for improvement there!) But, even for my limited skill, it pumps really well, is much more stable when on the foil than my other sails, and I had several nearly-foiling gybes on it today. (The closest I've ever come - the first 1/2-2/3 was on the foil, then the last bit was down on the water, but I was still able to get the board and sail to come around and complete the turn w/o getting dumped.)

Once the wind and gusts started getting above 20 mph, it started becoming a bit of a handful, and I came in and went down to a smaller sail. (Unfortunately, I didn't go to the 4.7 AirX- I went with a 5.0 instead, but wish now that I'd at least given the 4.7 a try...) I subsequently had to go down even smaller, to my 4.3, which I've used the most for foiling thus far. I was not able to come nearly as close to making a gybe on the 5.0 or the 4.3 as I'd been on the 5.7 Aerofoil. I was also comfortably in the harness and the rear foot straps w/ the 5.7 today - everything just felt really well balanced when using that sail. (almost like it was made for foiling, LoL... :-)

Anyway, the Aerofoil was a very good buy, as it turns out! If I ever come across the next size up for sale (6.5, I think), I'd be very likely to get it. I wish they'd made it in a smaller size, too!

5.7-6.5 is not a big enough gap to be worth looking at. Go 5.7-7.5 instead.

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phoilingphil said..
Can you send me the lead on the 5.0 SCR?

www.foxwatersports.com

This is in Buxton, NC. It's in their collection of consignment sails.

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Grantmac said..
5.7-6.5 is not a big enough gap to be worth looking at. Go 5.7-7.5 instead.

I totally agree. I've been using 5.2 to 7.0 all year and I don't think I've ever really wanted or needed to use a sail in between. There were two times in which I rigged down to 5.2 too soon, but those were bad decisions. Rigging from 7.0 to 6.0 would have worked but it wasn't necessary. I have foil specific sails with two cambers each, which I believe helps me control the sail better as winds increase.

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Grantmac said..
5.7-6.5 is not a big enough gap to be worth looking at. Go 5.7-7.5 instead.

Ugh, I swore an oath to myself that I'd never again sail anything larger than 6.0, LoL. :-) I like the 5.7 enough, however, that I'd consider the same sail in a 7.5 if I one came up for sale...

I agree about the gap. I run 5.0 then 7.0. I have a 6.0 and 5.7 but never need them.