Curious about how well the classic Sabfoil - initially the Moses 85 cm mast with 790, 950 and 1100 all with 450 stab - will work on a Severne Predator. Just looking at the Redwing on the net, I get the impression that the 1400 front wing is further forward of the foil mast than the Sabfoil 790 is.

Sceptical to go for a board with Foil box and not two US tracks, but if it works without a heavy back foot it might be an idea to test out. Poor availability of US track windsurfing foil boards in nearby shops or second hand (Oslo, Norway).

A mate uses the Slingshot jack plate adapter (tuttle to track) , he has enough adjustment to get a balanced set up on his Predator.

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Mr Keen said..
A mate uses the Slingshot jack plate adapter (tuttle to track) , he has enough adjustment to get a balanced set up on his Predator.

I use the Slingshot Jack Plate on my Predator and it works well. I use both Slingshot and Sabfoil front foils as they both fit on my Slingshot fuselage. I also shim my stabilizer. My current setup has my foil mast is about 50mm forward of the tuttle box. I like a relatively balanced setup with some front foot pressure. The only problem with the jack plate is the quality of the anodizing. It has failed in multiple spots and is corroding badly. I'm planning to get a local board maker to install twin US tracks on my Predator and ditch the jack plate.

isn't balz riding the predator with tuttle sab?

Yes

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thedoor said..
isn't balz riding the predator with tuttle sab?

I believe that you may be right! I found some recent videos of him where he is using Predator. Could not see any "extra attachment" in that Tuttle box. I am guessing that his front wings have lots of lift / pop. Not sure whether that changes the balance enough, or whether he is shimming a lot. At his skill level, he can make anything work. But I remember him stating that US track was important, since the trend in freestyle foil setup was moving the front wing closer to the foil mast. Since I am not planning any heavy freestyle... not that relevant to me. I just need stuff to be in balance.

He used to windfoil on MB. Seems like he has changed brand.

Mr Keen and John340,
I don't want to buy a new board just to add that Slingshot jack plate adapter to make it work. Besides, it sounds less robust, and I have read stories from people bending it. So, I am a little skeptical to that solution.

But thanks for finding solutions that indeed could work!

I would be careful assuming Balz is riding a production board. He may well be and I seem to remember seeing his 799 paired with a 425 stabiliser on his Severn board. Possible he has done this to get the front foot pressure he is used to

I use Predator 110 with the Sabfoil kit. 799+425 as well as 769+375 ... Both work well, initially I had the 753 fuse but it was really pitch sensitive and have swapped to the 903.

Have also been playing with using the 1 degree mast shim to rake the mast for better take off.

Yes, there's lots of pop with those front wings, takes you by surprise!

Covered in detail here:

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snowsurf said..

thedoor said..
isn't balz riding the predator with tuttle sab?

I believe that you may be right! I found some recent videos of him where he is using Predator. Could not see any "extra attachment" in that Tuttle box. I am guessing that his front wings have lots of lift / pop. Not sure whether that changes the balance enough, or whether he is shimming a lot. At his skill level, he can make anything work. But I remember him stating that US track was important, since the trend in freestyle foil setup was moving the front wing closer to the foil mast. Since I am not planning any heavy freestyle... not that relevant to me. I just need stuff to be in balance.

He used to windfoil on MB. Seems like he has changed brand.

Although tracks certainly allow you more options to get things balanced. I have noticed that I tend to just keep my foil mast in the same spot and use shims/different tails to match balance when switching to different front wings.

Balz has a special pradator. As long as Severne offers only DT foils i doubt they bring a foilboard with rails to the market

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thedoor said..

snowsurf said..

thedoor said..
isn't balz riding the predator with tuttle sab?

I believe that you may be right! I found some recent videos of him where he is using Predator. Could not see any "extra attachment" in that Tuttle box. I am guessing that his front wings have lots of lift / pop. Not sure whether that changes the balance enough, or whether he is shimming a lot. At his skill level, he can make anything work. But I remember him stating that US track was important, since the trend in freestyle foil setup was moving the front wing closer to the foil mast. Since I am not planning any heavy freestyle... not that relevant to me. I just need stuff to be in balance.

He used to windfoil on MB. Seems like he has changed brand.

Although tracks certainly allow you more options to get things balanced. I have noticed that I tend to just keep my foil mast in the same spot and use shims/different tails to match balance when switching to different front wings.

This ^ Shims, mast base, foot straps all move around and just small changes can adjust things out. Riding on a new foil in freerace mode and just a paper thin stab shim (0.4mm) balanced the board out perfectly. Not doubting the utility of tracks but I see less chat about what thedoor said. I know that there are thoughts on the matter of the wing needs to be "x" under the board but, for me at least, once I used a regular fuse, + and ++ on the same board, it really highlighted that there are more valid approaches than that. The difference in wing position on race foils from slalom to VMG can be 10-13 cm or more. And, before someone says that adding a small amount of stab angle will slow the board down, for freeriding, the difference is nil in most cases.

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Paducah said..

thedoor said..

snowsurf said..

thedoor said..
isn't balz riding the predator with tuttle sab?

I believe that you may be right! I found some recent videos of him where he is using Predator. Could not see any "extra attachment" in that Tuttle box. I am guessing that his front wings have lots of lift / pop. Not sure whether that changes the balance enough, or whether he is shimming a lot. At his skill level, he can make anything work. But I remember him stating that US track was important, since the trend in freestyle foil setup was moving the front wing closer to the foil mast. Since I am not planning any heavy freestyle... not that relevant to me. I just need stuff to be in balance.

He used to windfoil on MB. Seems like he has changed brand.

Although tracks certainly allow you more options to get things balanced. I have noticed that I tend to just keep my foil mast in the same spot and use shims/different tails to match balance when switching to different front wings.

This ^ Shims, mast base, foot straps all move around and just small changes can adjust things out. Riding on a new foil in freerace mode and just a paper thin stab shim (0.4mm) balanced the board out perfectly. Not doubting the utility of tracks but I see less chat about what thedoor said. I know that there are thoughts on the matter of the wing needs to be "x" under the board but, for me at least, once I used a regular fuse, + and ++ on the same board, it really highlighted that there are more valid approaches than that. The difference in wing position on race foils from slalom to VMG can be 10-13 cm or more. And, before someone says that adding a small amount of stab angle will slow the board down, for freeriding, the difference is nil in most cases.

After riding a bunch of different setups and playing a bunch of different jack plate and slot positions, it really does seem like the range of rideability is quite large.

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PatK said..
Balz has a special pradator. As long as Severne offers only DT foils i doubt they bring a foilboard with rails to the market

That solves that then, cheers

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PatK said..
Balz has a special pradator. As long as Severne offers only DT foils i doubt they bring a foilboard with rails to the market

Good catch. Thanks for sharing.

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jstone1 said..
I use Predator 110 with the Sabfoil kit. 799+425 as well as 769+375 ... Both work well, initially I had the 753 fuse but it was really pitch sensitive and have swapped to the 903.

Have also been playing with using the 1 degree mast shim to rake the mast for better take off.

Yes, there's lots of pop with those front wings, takes you by surprise!

Covered in detail here:

Did you keep the mast shim, or was that just a temporary experiment?How do you shim a Tuttle mast box and still keep it tight "sideways" / horizontally?

Sabfoil Kraken come with shims for tuttle base (between board & base). Tried it also, no real benefits for me. Shimming stab was more effective.

As MrKeen says the Kraken head can take a shim between it and the bottom of the board. I've kept the 1 degree shim in with the 769+375 as seems to make takeoff from water a bit more immediate. Doesn't affect things once you're airborne of course, just when taxiing...the 799+425 has plenty of low speed lift so doesn't need it.

Agree that the stab shim adjusts the lift of the whole system whether taxiing or in flight.

The rake shim (foil mast and board) made a big difference on small foil/race board setups. I had't even thought of adjusting it on smaller length freeride boards as digging a rail or catching the nose is a lot less likely on a <190cm 70ish wide board.

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aeroegnr said..
...I had't even thought of adjusting it on smaller length freeride boards as digging a rail or catching the nose is a lot less likely on a <190cm 70ish wide board.

Lol, you've not seen my riding then

That said were you shimming the race kit to trim the board's nose UP (so mast raked aft and therefore less takeoff angle of attack when board flat on water but perhaps a more forgiving touchdown at speed), or trimming nose DOWN (which is what I'm doing to increase AOA when board is first moving across water surface and before takeoff) ?

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jstone1 said..

aeroegnr said..
...I had't even thought of adjusting it on smaller length freeride boards as digging a rail or catching the nose is a lot less likely on a

Lol, you've not seen my riding then

That said were you shimming the race kit to trim the board's nose UP (so mast raked aft and therefore less takeoff angle of attack when board flat on water but perhaps a more forgiving touchdown at speed), or trimming nose DOWN (which is what I'm doing to increase AOA when board is first moving across water surface and before takeoff) ?

I've only gone with additional nose UP trim for better touchdowns at speed. Haven't heard much of the latter.

Select to expand quote

Paducah said..

thedoor said..

snowsurf said..

thedoor said..
isn't balz riding the predator with tuttle sab?

I believe that you may be right! I found some recent videos of him where he is using Predator. Could not see any "extra attachment" in that Tuttle box. I am guessing that his front wings have lots of lift / pop. Not sure whether that changes the balance enough, or whether he is shimming a lot. At his skill level, he can make anything work. But I remember him stating that US track was important, since the trend in freestyle foil setup was moving the front wing closer to the foil mast. Since I am not planning any heavy freestyle... not that relevant to me. I just need stuff to be in balance.

He used to windfoil on MB. Seems like he has changed brand.

Although tracks certainly allow you more options to get things balanced. I have noticed that I tend to just keep my foil mast in the same spot and use shims/different tails to match balance when switching to different front wings.

This ^ Shims, mast base, foot straps all move around and just small changes can adjust things out. Riding on a new foil in freerace mode and just a paper thin stab shim (0.4mm) balanced the board out perfectly. Not doubting the utility of tracks but I see less chat about what thedoor said. I know that there are thoughts on the matter of the wing needs to be "x" under the board but, for me at least, once I used a regular fuse, + and ++ on the same board, it really highlighted that there are more valid approaches than that. The difference in wing position on race foils from slalom to VMG can be 10-13 cm or more. And, before someone says that adding a small amount of stab angle will slow the board down, for freeriding, the difference is nil in most cases.

One benefit with the tuttle/foil boxes is that it seems to make the board a bit lighter, . and it is what I have on my wide board already. My impression is that Sabfoil primarily support shimming to change balance (there is no longer fuse than my 90 cm for normal wings), and you can play with stab for speed or stability.

There is a sharper picture of the one and only predator with rails. Found on Insta

Nice find! Here's a pic of where it sits in standard foil box. The track (prototype) version looks a bit further forward but maybe the board is the 95 not the 110 like mine?

Balz rides the smaller version, yes. Have seen him several times at lake Silvaplana