Hi!
I just start foiling, I have been out maybe 12 times. I have a SB Foil 147 (Ultrasonic slalom model maybe year 2018) and a Supercruiser foil. I use to have mastfoot back like Sam Ross Youtube video says. Today was out with 6.9 and try to put mastfoot a lit bit more in the front because I still have problem with Foil who want go out the water when gusts come. I read that my board will work better with a freeride foil but right now I don't want buy another foil because I use 90% fin and 10% foil. I don'thave problem to pump my sail, it s really easy to get foiling but when I put both my feet in the straps , speed increases and foil go up and up and then out the water. I feel like I need a 950 mast insteadof 850. I start to have just front foot in a strap now. Where I use to foil is absolutely no constant wind, can be 10 knots and gust 18 knots. My weight is 93 kg. Somebodyhave same board and foil combination?

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Ventomax said..
Hi!
I just start foiling, I have been out maybe 12 times. I have a SB Foil 147 (Ultrasonic slalom model maybe year 2018) and a Supercruiser foil. I use to have mastfoot back like Sam Ross Youtube video says. Today was out with 6.9 and try to put mastfoot a lit bit more in the front because I still have problem with Foil who want go out the water when gusts come. I read that my board will work better with a freeride foil but right now I don't want buy another foil because I use 90% fin and 10% foil. I don'thave problem to pump my sail, it s really easy to get foiling but when I put both my feet in the straps , speed increases and foil go up and up and then out the water. I feel like I need a 950 mast insteadof 850. I start to have just front foot in a strap now. Where I use to foil is absolutely no constant wind, can be 10 knots and gust 18 knots. My weight is 93 kg. Somebodyhave same board and foil combination?

What size wing is on your supercruiser? If it's the 1700, that's pretty big and it maybe that you just have too much sail up in the gusts. If you aren't having any trouble taking off, you have plenty of power. Something like 10-18 is quite normal where I (and many of us) sail. When you are starting out, it's better to rig for the gusts as the foil will let you glide through the lulls much better than you are used to on a board with a fin. You can use the lulls to either perfect your pumping or rest waiting for a gust to get you back off the water. My bigger friends with big foil wings are using 5.7s and 6.0s in that wind a lot of times if that gives you some reference.

Consider taking off the back straps. Don't worry about using them until you have a bit more experience. As you see a gust coming, you'll be able to move your back foot up and in a bit to help control the extra power.

Also, learn to feather the back hand in gusts. As windsurfers, we're used to stay sheeted in and pull on the back hand to control the sail in a gust. If you start pulling hard with the back hand in a gust, the force will transfer to your back foot which will make the board want to rise even more when you don't want it to. As an aside, make sure your harness lines are balanced, as having them too far forward will make this worse.

Select to expand quote

Ventomax said..
Hi!
I just start foiling, I have been out maybe 12 times. I have a SB Foil 147 (Ultrasonic slalom model maybe year 2018) and a Supercruiser foil. I use to have mastfoot back like Sam Ross Youtube video says. Today was out with 6.9 and try to put mastfoot a lit bit more in the front because I still have problem with Foil who want go out the water when gusts come. I read that my board will work better with a freeride foil but right now I don't want buy another foil because I use 90% fin and 10% foil. I don'thave problem to pump my sail, it s really easy to get foiling but when I put both my feet in the straps , speed increases and foil go up and up and then out the water. I feel like I need a 950 mast insteadof 850. I start to have just front foot in a strap now. Where I use to foil is absolutely no constant wind, can be 10 knots and gust 18 knots. My weight is 93 kg. Somebodyhave same board and foil combination?

I'd suggest learning how to sheet out/open sail during gusts. With a low aspect/high lift design there will be a point where you just have too much sail power and the wing is max'd out and you need to dump power.

Also, try moving your boom up in maybe 1 cm increments, this will give you more mast foot pressure which could help balance things out.

After traditional windsurfing for 30+ yrs, it took me about 50+ days to really understand the geometry of foiling and to reduce breaching. Hang in there!! It's totally worth it, when you get your gear dialed in its a great feeling.

I also agree with no back strap, this will allow you to dance around a lot more and adjust your sail sheeting angle. There is not much need for them as the pressure is so little when you are flying. I've read that Nico won in Tiberius with no back footsteps (!!?!??) and clearly he was going ballz-out-fast.

Slide the stabilizer back.

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tswei99 said..
Also, try moving your boom up in maybe 1 cm increments, this will give you more mast foot pressure which could help balance things out.

fwiw, I find that moving the boom down increases front foot pressure. Moving it up increases back foot pressure.

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Foiling/Sam-Ross-Flight-School-2-0--windfoil-?page=1#10
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Foiling/Trimming-Foil-Gear?page=1#2

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Paducah said..

tswei99 said..
Also, try moving your boom up in maybe 1 cm increments, this will give you more mast foot pressure which could help balance things out.

fwiw, I find that moving the boom down increases front foot pressure. Moving it up increases back foot pressure.

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Foiling/Sam-Ross-Flight-School-2-0--windfoil-?page=1#10
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Foiling/Trimming-Foil-Gear?page=1#2

Right, moving the boom up increases sail mast foot downward pressure, so that would equate to relieving front foot pressure and increasing back foot pressure.

Select to expand quote

tswei99 said..

Paducah said..

tswei99 said..
Also, try moving your boom up in maybe 1 cm increments, this will give you more mast foot pressure which could help balance things out.

fwiw, I find that moving the boom down increases front foot pressure. Moving it up increases back foot pressure.

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Foiling/Sam-Ross-Flight-School-2-0--windfoil-?page=1#10
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Foiling/Trimming-Foil-Gear?page=1#2

Right, moving the boom up increases sail mast foot downward pressure, so that would equate to relieving front foot pressure and increasing back foot pressure.

But his problem is too much lift and he's trying to calm things down. Moving the sail mast base back will have the opposite effect

www.sailworks.com/foil-mast-track-placement

"Your base is too far back if:

You need to lean really far forward to keep the foil level.
It's tough to trim the sail and keep downward pressure on the mast foot.
You keep foiling out.
"

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Paducah said..

tswei99 said..

Paducah said..

tswei99 said..
Also, try moving your boom up in maybe 1 cm increments, this will give you more mast foot pressure which could help balance things out.

fwiw, I find that moving the boom down increases front foot pressure. Moving it up increases back foot pressure.

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Foiling/Sam-Ross-Flight-School-2-0--windfoil-?page=1#10
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Foiling/Trimming-Foil-Gear?page=1#2

Right, moving the boom up increases sail mast foot downward pressure, so that would equate to relieving front foot pressure and increasing back foot pressure.

But his problem is too much lift and he's trying to calm things down. Moving the sail mast base back will have the opposite effect

www.sailworks.com/foil-mast-track-placement

"Your base is too far back if:

You need to lean really far forward to keep the foil level.
It's tough to trim the sail and keep downward pressure on the mast foot.
You keep foiling out.
"

right, I was saying move the boom up to increase downward pressure on sail mast base. its not so much how it affect the feet, but it should help keep the nose of the board down. I have done this as I progressed an find that I sail 3-4" higher boom than for traditional windsurfing.

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tswei99 said..

Paducah said.. snipped a bunch of stuff

right, I was saying move the boom up to increase downward pressure on sail mast base. its not so much how it affect the feet, but it should help keep the nose of the board down. I have done this as I progressed an find that I sail 3-4" higher boom than for traditional windsurfing.

check out this SB thread where a bunch of people say the same thing I am
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/General/Reasons--why-nose-fly-too-much-?page=1#5 (Shifu, Windxtasy, Mark_australia, Sail Repair WA further down)

Digging through this, I found Wing 11's comment and where he quotes Guy Cribb and see where you are coming from. imho, his back foot pressure equals mast base pressure assumes you balance the board by putting pressure into the harness. Otherwise, all else equal, the nose wants to fly as shown in this TWS video below. If you don't, you get the situation shown where the nose flies high. Same thing in foiling, if you raise the boom, you have to compensate by putting more weight on the harness. Most beginning foilers are neither accustomed to the new sensation of having to pressure the front foot and don't typically weight the harness much or at all. As they get used to these new sensations, a higher boom will become more natural. YMMV.



Since in that thread, I reference a Point-7 article, here's another
point-7.com/2015/04/16/slalom-tips-3-boom-height/
"Why does the lower boom offer less power? Lowering the boom is a bit like moving the track more forward. We move our weight more to the front leg, giving less pressure to the back leg, therefore to the fin and to the downwind rail. The board sits more flat, we sit more on the centre of the board depowering our gear. Therefore, if we lower the boom when we feel over powered it will be ideal for gaining extra control."

I love my Supercruiser, have used it on various boards with anything from 3.6 to 8.6m - have foiled the 147, just not with Scruiser - I'm 95+kg

Play with rear wing/stab - I find even middle/neutral setting is WAY too powerful, now I always put bolts almost completely to front of slots ie. flatten the stab off with trailing edge lower, makes it way more comfortable/controllable, trade off is it takes a little more speed to get flying but just pump rear foot down and up she pops

Definitely front wing back flush with mast - some put it forward, leaving a gap with rear screw hole visible - I hated that setup, ruined the balance IMHO

Try sail mast base in centre position and experiment with 0.5 cm adjustments

Hi,
Thank you for all information. I use to have boom really up position, to the max! So maybe this is the problem. I will try next time to move down 3-5 cm, and test. If I have same problem will try to move stab also, right now I use neutral position. Somebody says that move forward front wing (first/second hole) , give more lenght to fuselage so more stable. I just try one time but I feel that was more difficult for me, but I just started foiling so maybe in the future will try again. Anyway thak?sa lot for all info.

Select to expand quote

Ventomax said..
Hi,
Thank you for all information. I use to have boom really up position, to the max! So maybe this is the problem. I will try next time to move down 3-5 cm, and test. If I have same problem will try to move stab also, right now I use neutral position. Somebody says that move forward front wing (first/second hole) , give more lenght to fuselage so more stable. I just try one time but I feel that was more difficult for me, but I just started foiling so maybe in the future will try again. Anyway thak?sa lot for all info.

Moving the wing forward will add more "power" to the foil. That's the idea of the plus style fuses. Power in this case is more pressure forward and flies more easily. I'm pretty sure this is what you are wanting. Experiment with mast base, boom and stab angle instead. Given PeterHands' comments above, stab angle might be the first thing to look at.

Wing forward, stab back is my favorite setup on the Supercruiser.