I take no pleasure in posting this video but believe folks should hear about my experiences with SAB's Warranty Support. And in talking to others I can say I am not alone.

Sorry to hear your foil delaminated Adrian.
Keep pushing through the right channels and fingers crossed you get a positive outcome.

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2keen said..
Sorry to hear your foil delaminated Adrian.
Keep pushing through the right channels and fingers crossed you get a positive outcome.

Thanks, for me it is as much about what is done once and issue is discovered. Nothing is perfect and people make mistakes but what the company/person does afterwards to try and make things right is what is important. SAB has just gone silent.

Have you contacted them directly? I had one case in the past with windsurf gear where I first went through the shop, and got nowhere. I eventually got in contact with the US distributor (a different shop), and got much better responses from them. Your shop and situation is different, but it might be worth a try.

That's a bummer, hope that you can get in touch with them and get it sorted.

Puzzling that SAB has gone silent with Sailworks.

At home I use only SABfoil/Moses stuff, purchased from Sailworks. I have had good luck with quality. No issues at all, including a 940 wing.

Hopefully you get a positive resolution.

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boardsurfr said..
Have you contacted them directly? I had one case in the past with windsurf gear where I first went through the shop, and got nowhere. I eventually got in contact with the US distributor (a different shop), and got much better responses from them. Your shop and situation is different, but it might be worth a try.

Good advise,
I did contact them directly regarding my issues with my mast last year and did get a slow conversation going. But their response never wavered from it being past the 6 month warranty period. Problem is that the defect was slow to develop.
I trust Bruce at Sailworks totally and when it tells me that he has contacted them 4 times without a response and advised me to expect a slow response, I believe him.

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segler said..
Puzzling that SAB has gone silent with Sailworks.

At home I use only SABfoil/Moses stuff, purchased from Sailworks. I have had good luck with quality. No issues at all, including a 940 wing.

Hopefully you get a positive resolution.

I agree my 683, 790 and 945 have stood up to reef impacts like champs but the 940 split open with out any impacts to the reef. However I have seen the decaying of the MOSES decals on other masts and even the wings. And I know one foiler who also took it up with SAB but got the same answer I did. But it's really the slow response that needs to be addressed.

Time to switch to Slingshot. Great performance and the best warranty support in the business.

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jdfoils said..
Time to switch to Slingshot. Great performance and the best warranty support in the business.

Great warranty support, sure. But when I used Slingshot, they really needed it. I had one split front wing and three broken fuses. For the fuses, the root cause was poor engineering (mast directly on fuse, without any other structural support; just 2 screws with a direct steel-aluminum connection; uniform fuse thickness with extra holes). Good warranty support does not make up for breaking down on the water due to poor engineering, and risking loosing or damaging your other gear.

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boardsurfr said..

jdfoils said..
Time to switch to Slingshot. Great performance and the best warranty support in the business.

Great warranty support, sure. But when I used Slingshot, they really needed it. I had one split front wing and three broken fuses. For the fuses, the root cause was poor engineering (mast directly on fuse, without any other structural support; just 2 screws with a direct steel-aluminum connection; uniform fuse thickness with extra holes). Good warranty support does not make up for breaking down on the water due to poor engineering, and risking loosing or damaging your other gear.

The phantasm line fixed all of those well known problems with the hover glide.

You forgot to mention the supplied hardware manufactured from Swiss cheese Ti.

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boardsurfr said..

jdfoils said..
Time to switch to Slingshot. Great performance and the best warranty support in the business.

Great warranty support, sure. But when I used Slingshot, they really needed it. I had one split front wing and three broken fuses. For the fuses, the root cause was poor engineering (mast directly on fuse, without any other structural support; just 2 screws with a direct steel-aluminum connection; uniform fuse thickness with extra holes). Good warranty support does not make up for breaking down on the water due to poor engineering, and risking loosing or damaging your other gear.

I forgot I had a hover and the fuselage broke. Slingshot did replace it after I sent them a photo and sales info, which I thought was fair. However I had to rely on my friends snorkelling expertise to find the front wing.

Adrian, 6 months warranty period does not sound right. I just read the Warranty Policy from the Sabfoil website. In summary they warrant for 2 years with a whole lot of qualifications. Given you bought the foil in March, if it has no obvious reef dings, then you have a sound claim for replacement.

Does Sailworks agree you have a valid claim?

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John340 said..
Adrian, 6 months warranty period does not sound right. I just read the Warranty Policy from the Sabfoil website. In summary they warrant for 2 years with a whole lot of qualifications. Given you bought the foil in March, if it has no obvious reef dings, then you have a sound claim for replacement.

Does Sailworks agree you have a valid claim?

Warranty periods are often country specific. The Sabfoil website specifically mentions a EU directive, so they may not give US customers a 24 months warranty. Of course, they should mention this on their web site...

I just noticed that Sabfoils is headquartered in Italy. That might explain the slow responses to some extent. Our company does business in dozens of countries, and responses from Italy tend to be a lot slower than from most other countries. I would not expect timely responses in the summer, and especially in August, from any Mediterranean country. So getting an answer may simply require more patience - and perhaps a few more tries to contact them, since they may find too many emails to handle when they return from a long summer vacation.

August is vacation month in Europe. Pretty much the whole continent shuts down in August.

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John340 said..
Adrian, 6 months warranty period does not sound right. I just read the Warranty Policy from the Sabfoil website. In summary they warrant for 2 years with a whole lot of qualifications. Given you bought the foil in March, if it has no obvious reef dings, then you have a sound claim for replacement.

Does Sailworks agree you have a valid claim?

Thanks for looking into the warranty period for me.

The sailworks team, I have known Bruce before he started sailworks, has been working this for me. I actually purchased the 940 in January and had it shipped to me when I got to Maui in late March. It was fine the first dozen times I used it in April. When I got back in June it blew apart. So I contacted Bruce who said I if I wanted to submit a claim I needed to do it within 6 months of the purchase date. So I did, and Bruce has been working it for me through the American Distributor since. However I will follow up with Bruce to get clarification on the Warranty period as he is the one with the experience in this area.

Thanks again

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Hess said..

John340 said..
Adrian, 6 months warranty period does not sound right. I just read the Warranty Policy from the Sabfoil website. In summary they warrant for 2 years with a whole lot of qualifications. Given you bought the foil in March, if it has no obvious reef dings, then you have a sound claim for replacement.

Does Sailworks agree you have a valid claim?

Thanks for looking into the warranty period for me.

The sailworks team, I have known Bruce before he started sailworks, has been working this for me. I actually purchased the 940 in January and had it shipped to me when I got to Maui in late March. It was fine the first dozen times I used it in April. When I got back in June it blew apart. So I contacted Bruce who said I if I wanted to submit a claim I needed to do it within 6 months of the purchase date. So I did, and Bruce has been working it for me through the American Distributor since. However I will follow up with Bruce to get clarification on the Warranty period as he is the one with the experience in this area.

Thanks again

No worries, please keep the forum informed on the progress of your claim. My 940 arrived last week and I really enjoyed my first outing on it on the weekend. It would be good to know your problem is an isolated quality incident and not a systematic issue.

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John340 said..

Hess said..

John340 said..
Adrian, 6 months warranty period does not sound right. I just read the Warranty Policy from the Sabfoil website. In summary they warrant for 2 years with a whole lot of qualifications. Given you bought the foil in March, if it has no obvious reef dings, then you have a sound claim for replacement.

Does Sailworks agree you have a valid claim?

Thanks for looking into the warranty period for me.

The sailworks team, I have known Bruce before he started sailworks, has been working this for me. I actually purchased the 940 in January and had it shipped to me when I got to Maui in late March. It was fine the first dozen times I used it in April. When I got back in June it blew apart. So I contacted Bruce who said I if I wanted to submit a claim I needed to do it within 6 months of the purchase date. So I did, and Bruce has been working it for me through the American Distributor since. However I will follow up with Bruce to get clarification on the Warranty period as he is the one with the experience in this area.

Thanks again

No worries, please keep the forum informed on the progress of your claim. My 940 arrived last week and I really enjoyed my first outing on it on the weekend. It would be good to know your problem is an isolated quality incident and not a systematic issue.

OK I have no explanation for this but Bruce (Sailworks) got back to me and advised me that the Warranty Period in EU is 2 years and the Warranty period in North America is 6 months. This makes no sense to me unless the EU has legal minimum warranty requirements. But I trust Bruce's knowledge.

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Hess said..
OK I have no explanation for this but Bruce (Sailworks) got back to me and advised me that the Warranty Period in EU is 2 years and the Warranty period in North America is 6 months. This makes no sense to me unless the EU has legal minimum warranty requirements. But I trust Bruce's knowledge.

Yes, the EU has a minimum 2 year warranty period, which can be reduced to 1 year for used goods. In theory, you could probably start a legal case since the web site makes a very general "2 year warranty" statement, but in practice, the only thing that would really work legally would be a class action suit, for which you'd need more claimants that they have customers to get any lawyer interested.

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Hess said..

John340 said..

Hess said..

John340 said..
Adrian, 6 months warranty period does not sound right. I just read the Warranty Policy from the Sabfoil website. In summary they warrant for 2 years with a whole lot of qualifications. Given you bought the foil in March, if it has no obvious reef dings, then you have a sound claim for replacement.

Does Sailworks agree you have a valid claim?

Thanks for looking into the warranty period for me.

The sailworks team, I have known Bruce before he started sailworks, has been working this for me. I actually purchased the 940 in January and had it shipped to me when I got to Maui in late March. It was fine the first dozen times I used it in April. When I got back in June it blew apart. So I contacted Bruce who said I if I wanted to submit a claim I needed to do it within 6 months of the purchase date. So I did, and Bruce has been working it for me through the American Distributor since. However I will follow up with Bruce to get clarification on the Warranty period as he is the one with the experience in this area.

Thanks again

No worries, please keep the forum informed on the progress of your claim. My 940 arrived last week and I really enjoyed my first outing on it on the weekend. It would be good to know your problem is an isolated quality incident and not a systematic issue.

OK I have no explanation for this but Bruce (Sailworks) got back to me and advised me that the Warranty Period in EU is 2 years and the Warranty period in North America is 6 months. This makes no sense to me unless the EU has legal minimum warranty requirements. But I trust Bruce's knowledge.

In addition to the 2 years in the EU (and UK), goods should last a reasonable length of time. You would expect something like a TV or laptop to last more than the minimum of 2 years. The battery in a laptop might have a reasonable lifespan of 3 years, but the screen etc should last 4-5(?). Subject to normal wear and tear etc.
I'd expect any windsurf kit to last 4 years of reasonable use, lightweight carbon boards maybe 2-3. 3 2 hour sessions a week. Not wave kit in Fiji though. Carbon foils the same. Higher performance kit will be less than HD freeride.

I've never had to test out this though, stuff I have had fail has always been within the 2 years (usually months), and older kit has been reasonable wear and tear.

6 months is standard in the USA? Thats appalling.

there is no "standard" in the US. in fact, there is no generalized legal requirement to provide a written warranty for any consumer goods like in the EU. of course this doesn't mean that manufacturers might not offer one (and if they do, depending on the sector they'll charge extra for it). there is also a concept of implied warranty, but good luck enforcing that.

Good News! SAB has offered me a full refund for the 940. Unfortunately it was too slow and took too much effort from Sailworks.

I believe nothing is perfect and mistakes happen; however what a person/company does next to resolve a problem is what is important. SAB finally stood behind their product which does restore my confidence in SAB; but I believe their ISO 9001 Warranty process needs to be reviewed.

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Hess said..
Good News! SAB has offered me a full refund for the 940. Unfortunately it was too slow and took too much effort from Sailworks.

I believe nothing is perfect and mistakes happen; however what a person/company does next to resolve a problem is what is important. SAB finally stood behind their product which does restore my confidence in SAB; but I believe their ISO 9001 Warranty process needs to be reviewed.

Good to hear. Are you replacing like for like?

Cool, I'll have the busted one.

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Hess said..
I believe their ISO 9001 Warranty process needs to be reviewed.

Good to hear that you get a refund. But as of the slow response, I still think it's due to summer in Italy, not to any ISO rules.

It's summer here too. It's peak season during which that equipment is not available for use. I had a slow warranty experience with another company (detailed here in an another thread), and it cost me the bulk of my season on that gear. They finally delivered, but I still won't be buying more from that company, and this story gives me pause in considering a purchase from SAB.

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boardsurfr said..

Hess said..
I believe their ISO 9001 Warranty process needs to be reviewed.

Good to hear that you get a refund. But as of the slow response, I still think it's due to summer in Italy, not to any ISO rules.

From the little bit I know it sounds like Sailworks must work through the US importer. Here is my stab at the time line.

I notified Sailworks June 12th of the issue and provided the additional info and pictures June 16th. I know Sailworks submitted the claim promptly
I was passed an email to the US importer that, SAB notified US importer July 27th that warranty claim had been received and they would advise shortly.
Sailworks received approval from SAB/Importer on August 25 and passed it on to me the same day.
So my assessment is that the Warranty claim was with the US importer for at about 6 weeks and with SAB for about 4 weeks. Not sure what the Importer is responsible for but nothing further was requested from me.
I also know when I contacted SAB directly for my pervious claim, on the 101 mast I bought second hand. Their return correspondence was never longer than a week.

Bottom line. SAB did the right thing and Warrantied the product. Their process is too slow. If this would have been a 2 or 3 week process I would have no problem with it. Given, from all the SAB equipment I have seen and used this delamenation was a rare event.

Between this thread and the fact that they don't let US owners participate in the mast trade in program makes it seem like they really don't want our business here in the States.

I went through similar issues with Starboard and haven't bought another starboard product since. it's a shame because I really like their foils but this will probably be the last Sabfoil I buy.

Just an update
After a few Correspondence with support@sab they advised that their investigation reviled the delay in the warranty claim was due to a breakdown in communications. SAB have now modified their process where the seller/store can deal directly with SAB on warranty issues.
Good news is I got the warrantied foil and I am pumped to get on it

Summer in Italy, especiallly August, means they shut down for vacation. Pretty much all of Europe shuts down in August (except for hotels and restaurants and resorts). Vacation to them is a religion with very few non-believers.