I made this video to try and explain what I am having fun doing. But would like to start a discussion of other folks experience with equipment when Wave Foiling
I switched from the SAB 790/450 to the SAB 945/483. Smaller with higher aspect and thinner profile. I find it is still great in low wind and really rides the wave nicely without having as much "drag". Wondering what others have been using?
Also I find that going downwind and down the swell gives me less apparent wind to power up the sail when I want to do a heel side carve. Wondering if newer wave sails or maybe even freestyle sails might offer something different.

Similar set up in Cabarete, even the wind direction, reef position...when foiling there, i avoid main reef break and ride swell / waves just off.
With my new much shorter board i think i will try to ride closer if not inside, work in progress.
in Miami, our reef/ sand bar waves on small side, so you can ride the waves
relatively safely. The only enemies are Sargasso and low tide. My front wings are similar to your, from Gong, but stab is smaller, Q what fusilage are you using, better what's length from tip of front wing to trailing adge of stab? I use Goya fringe and cypher, for now those are my fav

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Hess said..Also I find that going downwind and down the swell gives me less apparent wind to power up the sail when I want to do a heel side carve. Wondering if newer wave sails or maybe even freestyle sails might offer something different.

Excellent vid Hess, super-clear display of carving the waves
Using a bigger sail will give you more power downwind to crank heel-side carves - in the conditions in your video I'd probably use a 5 or 5.9m.
Another advantage of using bigger sails is being able to water-start 100% of the time.

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azymuth said..

Hess said..Also I find that going downwind and down the swell gives me less apparent wind to power up the sail when I want to do a heel side carve. Wondering if newer wave sails or maybe even freestyle sails might offer something different.

Excellent vid Hess, super-clear display of carving the waves
Using a bigger sail will give you more power downwind to crank heel-side carves - in the conditions in your video I'd probably use a 5 or 5.9m.
Another advantage of using bigger sails is being able to water-start 100% of the time.

Thanks Azymuth, your right if I prefer riding with a big enough sail that allows me to easily water start. As I then have more power when traveling down wind for that heel side carve. I never have a problem of not being able to sheet in and power through on the upwind toe side carve as the wave helps with apparent wind. I just love using the small sails, its stupid but I find the 4.8 to be sooo big now. And the 5.6 rarely gets used. Just spoiled in when Maui.
Just wondering if a freestyle sail like the Cypher might be better, could go a little bigger and still have a small sail feel with the shorter booms. Or does a 3 batten wave sail vs a 4 batten "on shore" wave sail work better with that downwind/low wind condition? Ezzy let me to try his prototype 2.8m on a gnarly day, it had longer booms so more to pull on and not as twitchy as a regular 2.8. But no swell to try that day.

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miamiwindsurfe said..
Similar set up in Cabarete, even the wind direction, reef position...when foiling there, i avoid main reef break and ride swell / waves just off.
With my new much shorter board i think i will try to ride closer if not inside, work in progress.
in Miami, our reef/ sand bar waves on small side, so you can ride the waves
relatively safely. The only enemies are Sargasso and low tide. My front wings are similar to your, from Gong, but stab is smaller, Q what fusilage are you using, better what's length from tip of front wing to trailing adge of stab? I use Goya fringe and cypher, for now those are my fav

Hey thanks for the input. The tide also dictates where/when I ride the swell but there are a few spots with better foiling swell and no reef. Just crowded with Wingers. And I am always getting in their way :)

The Gong line looks cool, wondering which foil you are using? The 945 has an aspect of 6.9 and a thin profile so it feels so good on the wave and once you are up glides though the lulls. If I want to just ride a swell in with gentle turns I can pretty much flag the sail. It "feels" the wave better than the 790/450 lower aspect thicker profile and is more manageable on a bigger face.

I use the recommended 900mm fuse which almost goes to the front of the wing and a little past the back of the stabilizer. Not in Maui so I can't measure it foe you

Do you find the Fringe or the Cypher better when requiring power to carve the downwind heel side carve? Is either better in low wind?

Looks like you have a WindFoilers paradise there Adrian.
Definitely one place on my bucket list
I think the potential for Windfoiling in Waves is huge and I hope we see some young pro's get onboard.
I think modern wave sails are fit for purpose, no change required there.
I think the future is medium aspect foils. Foils that allow you to breach a tip with no penalty. The Slingshot 926 is incredible for that, I can carve with 100 to 200mm of tip out no problem. Ideally for Wave Windfoiling I think a span of around 800mm is the go, 1000 to 1200 cm square.
900 seems a standard size fuse, I would love to see shorter options to loosen up pitch stability. Not sure but 850, 800 and 750 would seem like reasonable options. All bringing the stabiliser closer to the mast.
As for boards, mast base near the front straps, foot straps near the centre line and foil forward allowing a compact riding position.
Keep posting Adrian, love to see what other people are doing

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Hess said..

miamiwindsurfe said..
Similar set up in Cabarete, even the wind direction, reef position...when foiling there, i avoid main reef break and ride swell / waves just off.
With my new much shorter board i think i will try to ride closer if not inside, work in progress.
in Miami, our reef/ sand bar waves on small side, so you can ride the waves
relatively safely. The only enemies are Sargasso and low tide. My front wings are similar to your, from Gong, but stab is smaller, Q what fusilage are you using, better what's length from tip of front wing to trailing adge of stab? I use Goya fringe and cypher, for now those are my fav

Hey thanks for the input. The tide also dictates where/when I ride the swell but there are a few spots with better foiling swell and no reef. Just crowded with Wingers. And I am always getting in their way :)

The Gong line looks cool, wondering which foil you are using? The 945 has an aspect of 6.9 and a thin profile so it feels so good on the wave and once you are up glides though the lulls. If I want to just ride a swell in with gentle turns I can pretty much flag the sail. It "feels" the wave better than the 790/450 lower aspect thicker profile and is more manageable on a bigger face.

I use the recommended 900mm fuse which almost goes to the front of the wing and a little past the back of the stabilizer. Not in Maui so I can't measure it foe you

Do you find the Fringe or the Cypher better when requiring power to carve the downwind heel side carve? Is either better in low wind?

Cypher does have some magic over fringe, extra pump power but at the same time easy to depower... but to be sure I need to put more time on it. I have 4 front wings for my foil from Gong. 1300-1500 with thin profile ~1.6 cm ,90-95cm wing span, feel just right,length of foil 86cm(custom),front wing is very forward and on my new board I moved mast track back,mast foot back/fin box forward, so all the power just under my feet all the time.. super sensitive, took 6-8 sessions to get more comfortable, was scared I went too far with the design...but now feels better and better. And even in Miami my big sail now is 5.1... anything bigger just feels wrong. This is from someone who used 11m2 sail one season during formula years and I'm 135 lb...

Gong just released fuselage extensions specifically for windfoiling. I have only a couple of sessions on their 1600cm2 96cm wing: it definitely is carvy, fast and can manage a tip out without ventilation.

I just got an older 3 batten ezzy taka and I am enjoying it so far, still need more time on it to know for sure. The lighter weight is so noticeable when carrying the gear and out on the water. The design has so much broad seam shaping that it is almost like a cambered sail. The sail has nearly its full depth when at rest. It can be set really full and the battens will still rotate. These features help keep the power on in the lulls.
Everything is a compromise in this life. Because of that stability it does not have that burst of power when pumped like my classic wave sails do. It is powerful when pumped but it is missing the bounce at the end of the stroke similar to the Flyer I wore out. I also notice it pop over when I heli tack, but to be fair it is a very soft pop.
So Far/Overall I feel like it is well suited to the big wing small sail approach and light air wave foiling.
For wave foiling I choose to rig smaller than the aussie crew. If I can water start easy it is way more sail than I want when surfing. Because of this my uphauling skills are the bomb and I am working on my light air water start skills.
I think most wave sails are too hard to inflate, and have too much twist for light air wave foiling.
I want to try a freestyle sail next.
Casey Treichler is using kids sails to get smaller and lighter sails and I bet that approach has merrit.

What length foil masts are you guys using? Also Hess, what's the tail width on that custom board?

TIA

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miamiwindsurfe said..

Hess said..

miamiwindsurfe said..
Similar set up in Cabarete, even the wind direction, reef position...when foiling there, i avoid main reef break and ride swell / waves just off.
With my new much shorter board i think i will try to ride closer if not inside, work in progress.
in Miami, our reef/ sand bar waves on small side, so you can ride the waves
relatively safely. The only enemies are Sargasso and low tide. My front wings are similar to your, from Gong, but stab is smaller, Q what fusilage are you using, better what's length from tip of front wing to trailing adge of stab? I use Goya fringe and cypher, for now those are my fav

Hey thanks for the input. The tide also dictates where/when I ride the swell but there are a few spots with better foiling swell and no reef. Just crowded with Wingers. And I am always getting in their way :)

The Gong line looks cool, wondering which foil you are using? The 945 has an aspect of 6.9 and a thin profile so it feels so good on the wave and once you are up glides though the lulls. If I want to just ride a swell in with gentle turns I can pretty much flag the sail. It "feels" the wave better than the 790/450 lower aspect thicker profile and is more manageable on a bigger face.

I use the recommended 900mm fuse which almost goes to the front of the wing and a little past the back of the stabilizer. Not in Maui so I can't measure it foe you

Do you find the Fringe or the Cypher better when requiring power to carve the downwind heel side carve? Is either better in low wind?

Cypher does have some magic over fringe, extra pump power but at the same time easy to depower... but to be sure I need to put more time on it. I have 4 front wings for my foil from Gong. 1300-1500 with thin profile ~1.6 cm ,90-95cm wing span, feel just right,length of foil 86cm(custom),front wing is very forward and on my new board I moved mast track back,mast foot back/fin box forward, so all the power just under my feet all the time.. super sensitive, took 6-8 sessions to get more comfortable, was scared I went too far with the design...but now feels better and better. And even in Miami my big sail now is 5.1... anything bigger just feels wrong. This is from someone who used 11m2 sail one season during formula years and I'm 135 lb...

Thanks this is great info, I would be interested in an update on the Cypher. I think the freestyle sail option might have some merit. With some sail makers they are lighter than the wave sail but with more low end power and a tighter leech. While the boom length is shorter. I think I will have to try one in swell. However, 2keen has probably tried freestyle sails foiling and is opting for the wave sail.

I also find the liveliness of the kit improves moving the mast back, I use a tuttle and no straps; but any idea of the distance from the back of the mast track to the front tuttle bolt would be on your new board?

I am still not sure which Gong foils you are using or their aspect ratio. I ask because I moved to the SAB 945/483 combo (1300cm2 wave foil) and love how it behaves on the swell. If I don't have enough wind to sheet in on a downwind heel side carve its still fun as it seems to generate more speed/power from the wave than my 790/450; which I love as well. Wondering if you are riding the Gong high aspect foils?

Thanks again

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2keen said..
Looks like you have a WindFoilers paradise there Adrian.
Definitely one place on my bucket list
I think the potential for Windfoiling in Waves is huge and I hope we see some young pro's get onboard.
I think modern wave sails are fit for purpose, no change required there.
I think the future is medium aspect foils. Foils that allow you to breach a tip with no penalty. The Slingshot 926 is incredible for that, I can carve with 100 to 200mm of tip out no problem. Ideally for Wave Windfoiling I think a span of around 800mm is the go, 1000 to 1200 cm square.
900 seems a standard size fuse, I would love to see shorter options to loosen up pitch stability. Not sure but 850, 800 and 750 would seem like reasonable options. All bringing the stabiliser closer to the mast.
As for boards, mast base near the front straps, foot straps near the centre line and foil forward allowing a compact riding position.
Keep posting Adrian, love to see what other people are doing

Really appreciate the time and your input. Thanks.

All the young guns in Maui are on the wings doing big tricks and carving up the waves, way sexier than the few old guys on the windfoils, and they are going to influence anyone watching on line. Which is great as any foiling is fun.

But your right, swell windfoiling is a blast and you get way more rides than on a windsurfer, specially in ****ty conditions. Its probably easier than learning a foiling jibe, as you don't switch your feet. Unfortunately even the foil manufacturers are not spreading the word. You need to come to Maui and influence folks

I could not find the aspect ratio for the 926 but I think it is close the 6.9 of the 945 and I find tip breaches are no big deal as well. AlsoI think this aspect ratio (medium?) does seem to work great on a wave. I found that I could loosen up the foil will different stabilizers, the higher aspect, thin profile and small stabilizer loosened things up. But it is a trade off with forgiveness and low wind capability. Excited to see what the manufactures come up with as it is still early days in the sport, but would like to see more interest/development in the Wave Windfoiling.

Keep Carving

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utcminusfour said..
I just got an older 3 batten ezzy taka and I am enjoying it so far, still need more time on it to know for sure. The lighter weight is so noticeable when carrying the gear and out on the water. The design has so much broad seam shaping that it is almost like a cambered sail. The sail has nearly its full depth when at rest. It can be set really full and the battens will still rotate. These features help keep the power on in the lulls.
Everything is a compromise in this life. Because of that stability it does not have that burst of power when pumped like my classic wave sails do. It is powerful when pumped but it is missing the bounce at the end of the stroke similar to the Flyer I wore out. I also notice it pop over when I heli tack, but to be fair it is a very soft pop.
So Far/Overall I feel like it is well suited to the big wing small sail approach and light air wave foiling.
For wave foiling I choose to rig smaller than the aussie crew. If I can water start easy it is way more sail than I want when surfing. Because of this my uphauling skills are the bomb and I am working on my light air water start skills.
I think most wave sails are too hard to inflate, and have too much twist for light air wave foiling.
I want to try a freestyle sail next.
Casey Treichler is using kids sails to get smaller and lighter sails and I bet that approach has merrit.

Thanks for the input. I am more with the Aussies, did I say that out loud , when it comes to sail power. I prefer to reef swell ride with a sail I can water start easily, as it gives me more to hang onto on downwind heel side carve. The toe side carve always has plenty of power because of the upwind apparent wind. Come to think of it being powered up when riding across a downwind swell also feels better. Probably because you are moving downwind on the swell.

Also be interested in what you think of a freestyle sail. After all the heli tack is a freestyle move

Have fun on the water

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Hess said..
I made this video to try and explain what I am having fun doing. But would like to start a discussion of other folks experience with equipment when Wave Foiling
I switched from the SAB 790/450 to the SAB 945/483. Smaller with higher aspect and thinner profile. I find it is still great in low wind and really rides the wave nicely without having as much "drag". Wondering what others have been using?
Also I find that going downwind and down the swell gives me less apparent wind to power up the sail when I want to do a heel side carve. Wondering if newer wave sails or maybe even freestyle sails might offer something different.

Great rides. Nice to see a fellow Canadian foiler shredding the beautiful maui waves

I've yet try the 945 but looks like a good option and very glidey. Must be great for light wind days also. Just a bit bigger then my go to 799 wing at 1100cm2. What do you like better about the 483 vs the 450 is it just better paired with the 945?

I've also been trying to use more sail power this year and riding the waves like a wave sailor the 799 has definitely allowed this with its suprising upper and lower wind limit. I believe we can make 3ft conditions look almost as fun as the pros windsurfing maui on a mast high day. We are not even scratching the surface with this kind of freeride wave windfoiling. And dont be afraid to use a long mast as long as its stiff enough my 111cm carbon mast really allows you to crank the board over to extreme angles. Most of the former windfoilers now wingers never progressed to the point of craving downwind with speed and power and would use too short a mast making breaches more common and making them more reluctant to push there level, now winging is nice and slow for them.

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CAN17 said.. Most of the former windfoilers now wingers never progressed to the point of craving downwind with speed and power and would use too short a mast making breaches more common and making them more reluctant to push there level, now winging is nice and slow for them.

Have to agree with you Connor, perhaps some will come back to sails and learn to use the power when the wing fad tapers off
For your Great Lakes and our ocean windswells I reckon windfoiling downwind rocks.
I get winging if you've got big lumpy waves.

gong just came out with high aspect wings, not sure if i even want one yet, it would be almost back to race foils and I'm not after top speed or using bigger sails. Most used curve xl 1500cm2 89cm, very forgiving, huge range, pops in air easy but a bit draggy. Second veloce XLT 1350cm2 91cm, i recently got fluid h XXL 1950 cm2 105cm, can't say it is wow yet,still testing, but once in the air and you pump it or sail, you can stay foiling in almost no wind.

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miamiwindsurfe said..
gong just came out with high aspect wings, not sure if i even want one yet, it would be almost back to race foils and I'm not after top speed or using bigger sails. Most used curve xl 1500cm2 89cm, very forgiving, huge range, pops in air easy but a bit draggy. Second veloce XLT 1350cm2 91cm, i recently got fluid h XXL 1950 cm2 105cm, can't say it is wow yet,still testing, but once in the air and you pump it or sail, you can stay foiling in almost no wind.

Remind me what tails you are using?

Fluid M stab feels the best for now

Wave sail vs Freestyle sail is interesting
I haven't had the opportunity to try a freestyle sail nor the want because I am so happy with my wave sails. I find my 3 battern Simmer Tricera's perfect for my style of foiling.
I think the most suitable sail will be dictated by your intended use.
Hopefully the link to Point 7 works which suggests Freestyle sails aren't ideal in waves

point-7.com/2018/04/23/freestyle-sail-waves/?q=%2F2018%2F04%2F23%2Ffreestyle-sail-waves%2F&v=9b7d173b068d

Of course nothing is black and white. To complicate things further Severn have brought out a Foilstyle sail
Not sure if it is closer to a freestyle sail or a wave sail

Cypher is a freestyle-foil sail according to Goya marketing, might be better than fringe. Need few more sessions as in wrote to confirm. Since I changed all elements(board/sail/ foil) for my light wind set up, it takes longer to figure out how it all works..

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miamiwindsurfe said..
Fluid M stab feels the best for now

Their various wing and stab lines seem to work well together. I'm winging a Veloce combo (XL wing, L tail) that I'm also going to use for windfoiling with a fuselage extension.

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CAN17 said..

Hess said..
I made this video to try and explain what I am having fun doing. But would like to start a discussion of other folks experience with equipment when Wave Foiling
I switched from the SAB 790/450 to the SAB 945/483. Smaller with higher aspect and thinner profile. I find it is still great in low wind and really rides the wave nicely without having as much "drag". Wondering what others have been using?
Also I find that going downwind and down the swell gives me less apparent wind to power up the sail when I want to do a heel side carve. Wondering if newer wave sails or maybe even freestyle sails might offer something different.

Great rides. Nice to see a fellow Canadian foiler shredding the beautiful maui waves

I've yet try the 945 but looks like a good option and very glidey. Must be great for light wind days also. Just a bit bigger then my go to 799 wing at 1100cm2. What do you like better about the 483 vs the 450 is it just better paired with the 945?

I've also been trying to use more sail power this year and riding the waves like a wave sailor the 799 has definitely allowed this with its suprising upper and lower wind limit. I believe we can make 3ft conditions look almost as fun as the pros windsurfing maui on a mast high day. We are not even scratching the surface with this kind of freeride wave windfoiling. And dont be afraid to use a long mast as long as its stiff enough my 111cm carbon mast really allows you to crank the board over to extreme angles. Most of the former windfoilers now wingers never progressed to the point of craving downwind with speed and power and would use too short a mast making breaches more common and making them more reluctant to push there level, now winging is nice and slow for them.

Thanks Can17, I don't know what I am doing but it sure is fun. I agree the 3ft swell does feel much bigger on a foil, but I don't think I will be showing up the boys/girls at Hookipa any time soon. I actually find that if I get in the steep section of a wave, around where its breaking, it does not end well, unless I am turning on it. Because its tough to ride down the line on a 5ft vertical wall because the board hits the wall - yikes

I find the 450 is not as loose and has more drag basically detuned the 945. So it also is not as forgiving in the corners, more sensitive. On the wave the 945 feels smaller than 1300, maybe its the thin profile or the higher aspect but it just behaves so well on a smooth swell and carves nicely on the bottom, it also makes the swell feel even bigger than I found on the 790. I found with the high efficiency of the 945 it is better in light winds than the 790. The 790 has a lower take off speed but if you can pump or use a swell to get up the 945 will glide through lower lulls and ride swells longer.

I agree with the mast length, I ride a 101 in maui and would go longer but it does limit how low the tide can be on the reef before I go out so I do use the 85 for those days

Oh I better add that I tried the 483 stabilizer with the 790 and it was like foiling on ball bearings they did not pair well for me. So i will stick with the manufactures recommendations in the future.

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2keen said..
Wave sail vs Freestyle sail is interesting
I haven't had the opportunity to try a freestyle sail nor the want because I am so happy with my wave sails. I find my 3 battern Simmer Tricera's perfect for my style of foiling.
I think the most suitable sail will be dictated by your intended use.
Hopefully the link to Point 7 works which suggests Freestyle sails aren't ideal in waves

point-7.com/2018/04/23/freestyle-sail-waves/?q=%2F2018%2F04%2F23%2Ffreestyle-sail-waves%2F&v=9b7d173b068d

Of course nothing is black and white. To complicate things further Severn have brought out a Foilstyle sail
Not sure if it is closer to a freestyle sail or a wave sail

Hmmm, interesting it is. Too bad I am not Yoda and I am not sure I want to "Feel the Force" of a Freestyle sail on a wave.
From what I can tell the new Severn Foil Freek is more of a Freestyle sail. Designed with Balz

From what I can tell if you compare most Freestyle Sails with wave sails they are now are lighter, more stable, tighter leech, bigger foot, more powerful with a higher aspect, but don't have the off switch like a wave sail. However overall they are probably more suited to foiling according to some sail makers.
On a swell I think I would like more power going downwind down the line into a heel side carve(on a foil I just out run the wind more) but it might be too much going up wind into a toe side carve especially if it is harder to depower. I think I am just going to have to see if I can demo a freestyle sail in Maui and find out if the extra power/pop of a freestyle sail is going to be too much on a reef swell. Heck its not like I am not having a blast on my wave sails already.
Thanks for the discussion.

Had another go at Goya 5.1 Cypher.
Comparing to both banzai/fringe more power. Also much lighter, depower much better than banzai, and overall more playful, less physical. Definitely a keeper. Now I also was testing Gong fluid t xxl 1950cm2/ 105 cm. Once in the air it keeps on gliding with almost no wind, but harder/stickier to get going and if you let your guard for a sec it could get out of control easy, a bit draggy too even though 1.6 cm max thickness. I will use it for light none gusty days and smother water conditions. Wish I bought one size down fluid t xl 1550cm2, think that wing will have much better range and more well behaved

Great Vid Hess! Maui looks yummy!

I love seeing how much you move your feet. I do similar and love having the options!

I find it interesting that you want sail power for the heel side turn back up wind and up wave.

I have noticed that if I am flagged or keep my hands forward on the boom I turn WAY faster into the wind. The sail load if sheeted in the fights the turn. I sheet in at the end of the turn and at that point there is plenty of apparent. I have even been throwing my windward hand upwind and into the turn to help the turn. I just learned that from this video at :14 seconds


Are you talking about the same turn or moment? Or are you talking about the moments before the turn while hauling ass straight downwind and down the line?

I can see wanting some sail power to lean against as you sail down wind and down the line. It is hard to come by in winds less than 20. Your Maui swells are moving fast so you still have that situation even with the stronger winds. That's why I mentioned the Taka because it keeps it's shape in a lull so the flow may stay attached longer and turn back on sooner.

I personally have learned to love shutting the apparent off and just surfing down the line with the sail either layed down or flagged. It feels just like regular surfing to me. I kinda prefer flagged for going down the line because when the sail is forward you can see the wave better . It is easier to press down vertically through the mast for some three legged stability and good pitch control. The weight of the rig is further forward so you get help controlling the breach right when you need it. The apparent wind can shift around all it wants and the sail just aligns to it and you don't have to move much. You are also free to turn quickly in either direction without sail handling so you can respond to the changing wave. I am still in the pampers stage on my wave riding but these are my impressions so far. I am also riding 2-3' 8 second rollers on a inlet sandbar with side on winds of 20 or less so a little different set up than yours!

I am also puzzeled about the comments regarding freestyle sails not shutting off, how can they be easy to duck if they don't depower?

2Keen,
Those Simmers look sweet! I have no doubt they are perfect for what you do.

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utcminusfour said..
Great Vid Hess! Maui looks yummy!

I love seeing how much you move your feet. I do similar and love having the options!

I find it interesting that you want sail power for the heel side turn back up wind and up wave.

I have noticed that if I am flagged or keep my hands forward on the boom I turn WAY faster into the wind. The sail load if sheeted in the fights the turn. I sheet in at the end of the turn and at that point there is plenty of apparent. I have even been throwing my windward hand upwind and into the turn to help the turn. I just learned that from this video at :14 seconds

Are you talking about the same turn or moment? Or are you talking about the moments before the turn while hauling ass straight downwind and down the line?

I can see wanting some sail power to lean against as you sail down wind and down the line. It is hard to come by in winds less than 20. Your Maui swells are moving fast so you still have that situation even with the stronger winds. That's why I mentioned the Taka because it keeps it's shape in a lull so the flow may stay attached longer and turn back on sooner.

I personally have learned to love shutting the apparent off and just surfing down the line with the sail either layed down or flagged. It feels just like regular surfing to me. I kinda prefer flagged for going down the line because when the sail is forward you can see the wave better . It is easier to press down vertically through the mast for some three legged stability and good pitch control. The weight of the rig is further forward so you get help controlling the breach right when you need it. The apparent wind can shift around all it wants and the sail just aligns to it and you don't have to move much. You are also free to turn quickly in either direction without sail handling so you can respond to the changing wave. I am still in the pampers stage on my wave riding but these are my impressions so far. I am also riding 2-3' 8 second rollers on a inlet sandbar with side on winds of 20 or less so a little different set up than yours!

I am also puzzeled about the comments regarding freestyle sails not shutting off, how can they be easy to duck if they don't depower?

Thanks for the input, I don't have Dion's skill, so I think my turns start lower on the swell but using the power of the swell to accelerate into the carve. I also believe the arc of my carves are longer as I am moving a bit faster. Hence I like to have the sail powered up when going through the heel side carve. I just like the feeling of G's when carving harder and I need something to hang onto so I won't fall in. So down the line downwind has me outrunning the wind probably why I find it more fun when I have plenty of wind to water start easily. Its just what I prefer; its all good.

I think your right the more sail is depowered the closer it feels to pure surfing (surfers don't use sails) its more like what most of the wingers like to do. Also lots fun! Again its probably just me but I like to use the power in the sail to go through the carves. Probably why I am liking the SAB 945 on the swell more than the SAB 790. I also find the higher aspect 945 is much more manageable when accelerating down the swell. I don't think its ever breached on me coming down a face; even when white knuckling on some bigger waves/swells.

I have never used a freestyle sail but 2Keen sent me a link with some pro's explanation why a wave sail was better than freestyle in the waves. The main reason the quoted was that a freestyle sail did not depower as well as a wave sail. But I am not sure reef wave windfoiling is quite the same, so I am interested in trying a freestyle sail as some sail makers like it for foiling.

Have a great day

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BullroarerTook said..
What length foil masts are you guys using? Also Hess, what's the tail width on that custom board?

TIA

Sorry for the slow reply I missed the question earlier, my Robets GT is 24 inches wide at the tail. and the back of the tule box is less than inch from the back of the board. Rob says it helps with early take off.

I use a 101 cm mast most of the time but when the tide is low I will go to a 85 cm mast.

Cool thanks.

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utcminusfour said..
Great Vid Hess! Maui looks yummy!

I love seeing how much you move your feet. I do similar and love having the options!

I find it interesting that you want sail power for the heel side turn back up wind and up wave.

I have noticed that if I am flagged or keep my hands forward on the boom I turn WAY faster into the wind. The sail load if sheeted in the fights the turn. I sheet in at the end of the turn and at that point there is plenty of apparent. I have even been throwing my windward hand upwind and into the turn to help the turn. I just learned that from this video at :14 seconds

Are you talking about the same turn or moment? Or are you talking about the moments before the turn while hauling ass straight downwind and down the line?

I can see wanting some sail power to lean against as you sail down wind and down the line. It is hard to come by in winds less than 20. Your Maui swells are moving fast so you still have that situation even with the stronger winds. That's why I mentioned the Taka because it keeps it's shape in a lull so the flow may stay attached longer and turn back on sooner.

I personally have learned to love shutting the apparent off and just surfing down the line with the sail either layed down or flagged. It feels just like regular surfing to me. I kinda prefer flagged for going down the line because when the sail is forward you can see the wave better . It is easier to press down vertically through the mast for some three legged stability and good pitch control. The weight of the rig is further forward so you get help controlling the breach right when you need it. The apparent wind can shift around all it wants and the sail just aligns to it and you don't have to move much. You are also free to turn quickly in either direction without sail handling so you can respond to the changing wave. I am still in the pampers stage on my wave riding but these are my impressions so far. I am also riding 2-3' 8 second rollers on a inlet sandbar with side on winds of 20 or less so a little different set up than yours!

I am also puzzeled about the comments regarding freestyle sails not shutting off, how can they be easy to duck if they don't depower?

Hey I took a second read of your post and the vid. Firstly I will never be that good as him but I am sure I have as much fun as he does

The one handed heel side turn (;14) looks to be completed with near zero sail pressure and likely feels more like surfing, as you described. He also completes some heel side carves (:39) using some power in the sail, albeit not to initiate the turn, which is more what I try to do. IMHO I would say he is sort of "foil surfing" the wave using mostly the power of the wave more like a Winger. Not that I am any good at it but what l like to do on the down wind heel side carve is initiate the carve with the power in the sail. So I start the carve totally sheeted out going down wind along the swell (see 2:06) and sheet in and turn 180 degrees. Hope that helps describe what I like to do, not that its better its just what I am having fun doing.

The downwind down the line heel carve is when I am looking to maximize the power in the sail as I find even when I have enough wind to water start easily I want more power to carve heel side with my wave sails. I prefer my new freestyle sails for this, as they have more low end power and turn ON faster than my 4 batten wave sails.

I have gotten to love my SAB 945/483 combo. I have used the 450 stabilizer on the 945 and I found it more forgiving but did not like the added drag or how it detuned the turning. Wondering if folks have tried the 945 with other stabilizers on swells??

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I have 4 front wings for my foil from Gong. 1300-1500 with thin profile ~1.6 cm ,90-95cm wing span, feel just right,length of foil 86cm(custom),front wing is very forward and on my new board I moved mast track back,mast foot back/fin box forward, so all the power just under my feet all the time.. super sensitive, took 6-8 sessions to get more comfortable, was scared I went too far with the design...but now feels better and better. And even in Miami my big sail now is 5.1... anything bigger just feels wrong. This is from someone who used 11m2 sail one season during formula years and I'm 135 lb...

The AFS F1080 cm2 wing profile is just under 1.6 cm., 800 cm wide, and it is my light wind wing 8-12 knots max, I weight 182 lbs/82 kg. So I am surprised you are on much larger wings considering your weight, assuming wings 1300-1500 were cm2.