My whole gear is focused around light-medium wind, a Starboard race 115+ with 800 front/330 back on an old formula and it works like a charm with my 9.0-7.0 cam sails in 8-25knot conditions. There's an upcoming 3 day 20-35 forecast and I'm wondering if borrowing one of my mates wave/fsw sails of 5.5sqm makes any sense ? Anyone tried pairing such gear and had success ?

What is "success"?
It works.
You lose wind range, comfort, and angles.
You gain easy rigging, lighter rig, easier sail flip.

A couple guys in Seattle are doing that, even with the big 1000 wing. What they do, however, is shim the stab for reduced down angle so that the foil stays under better control when the speed increases. One guy uses a 4.5 with his SB Race foil.

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Dishpet said..
My whole gear is focused around light-medium wind, a Starboard race 115+ with 800 front/330 back on an old formula and it works like a charm with my 9.0-7.0 cam sails in 8-25knot conditions. There's an upcoming 3 day 20-35 forecast and I'm wondering if borrowing one of my mates wave/fsw sails of 5.5sqm makes any sense ? Anyone tried pairing such gear and had success ?

Yeah sure, works very well, I often used my Lokefoil race with small wavesails (2.0-4.9). However, in 20-35 knots I'd ideally be on a 3.5ish sail instead of the 5.5 (I personally would rig upto a meter smaller than that even). 5.5m works already very well for 10-20 knots for the racefoil and 95kg.

Only thing is the formula might be more comfortable to ride strapless, or use an old slalomboard, that would probably be more comfortable than the formula alltogether.

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WhiteofHeart said..

Dishpet said..
My whole gear is focused around light-medium wind, a Starboard race 115+ with 800 front/330 back on an old formula and it works like a charm with my 9.0-7.0 cam sails in 8-25knot conditions. There's an upcoming 3 day 20-35 forecast and I'm wondering if borrowing one of my mates wave/fsw sails of 5.5sqm makes any sense ? Anyone tried pairing such gear and had success ?

Yeah sure, works very well, I often used my Lokefoil race with small wavesails (2.0-4.9). However, in 20-35 knots I'd ideally be on a 3.5ish sail instead of the 5.5 (I personally would rig upto a meter smaller than that even). 5.5m works already very well for 10-20 knots for the racefoil and 95kg.

Only thing is the formula might be more comfortable to ride strapless, or use an old slalomboard, that would probably be more comfortable than the formula alltogether.

I'm stuck with the formula, straps off it is. Would an old 95 SB fuse be preferable or not ?

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Dishpet said..

WhiteofHeart said..

Dishpet said..
My whole gear is focused around light-medium wind, a Starboard race 115+ with 800 front/330 back on an old formula and it works like a charm with my 9.0-7.0 cam sails in 8-25knot conditions. There's an upcoming 3 day 20-35 forecast and I'm wondering if borrowing one of my mates wave/fsw sails of 5.5sqm makes any sense ? Anyone tried pairing such gear and had success ?

Yeah sure, works very well, I often used my Lokefoil race with small wavesails (2.0-4.9). However, in 20-35 knots I'd ideally be on a 3.5ish sail instead of the 5.5 (I personally would rig upto a meter smaller than that even). 5.5m works already very well for 10-20 knots for the racefoil and 95kg.

Only thing is the formula might be more comfortable to ride strapless, or use an old slalomboard, that would probably be more comfortable than the formula alltogether.

I'm stuck with the formula, straps off it is. Would an old 95 SB fuse be preferable or not ?

Both have pros and cons, I'd use the 115+ if its balanced with the formula, just be prepared to stand a lot further forward than you are used to with the racing sails. Strapless it shouldnt really matter much anyway. I dont know if you expect big swell or something like that? Maybe then the 95 might be preferred.

Hey Dish, you formula board probably has a finbox that is way back there, probably completely behind the back footstrap location. If so, then a foil with a long fuselage (115, for example) might balance out. Definition of "balance": front wing at or near the midpoint between back and front footstraps (or feet). The race foil geometry places the front wing further from the strut than freeride foils do. You might get lucky and have the front wing at or near the midpoint between front and back footstraps. (The 95 fuselage might actually be too short and might locate the front wing too far aft for a formula board.)

I have been going through this issue myself. I am trying to mate a Moses Race foil to a Mike's Lab formula board with a more-forward finbox. The board has just one footstrap position--not adjustable. The front wing is too far forward of the mid point between front and back footstraps. To foil it under control I have to ride strapless by standing in front of the footstraps. It makes for a nice sweet ride, but I'd rather be in the straps (old formula habits are hard to break).

One trick that the Seattle guys use is to use "negative" shims that reduce the down angle of the stab. This keeps the foil more stable with changing speeds, and has the effect of making it feel like the front wing is further aft. I will be experimenting with this next spring.

But you gotta measure it to see exactly where your front wing is located relative to your footstraps. Three years ago I made a youtube that shows you how to do this. The youtube shows a freeride foil with a forward-raked strut, but most foils are 90 degrees, so you don't need to use a right-angle tool like I showed. The youtube shows my formula board with the more-forward finbox and a freeride foil with 88 cm fuselage, which balances nicely.

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segler said..
Hey Dish, you formula board probably has a finbox that is way back there, probably completely behind the back footstrap location. If so, then a foil with a long fuselage (115, for example) might balance out. Definition of "balance": front wing at or near the midpoint between back and front footstraps (or feet). The race foil geometry places the front wing further from the strut than freeride foils do. You might get lucky and have the front wing at or near the midpoint between front and back footstraps. (The 95 fuselage might actually be too short and might locate the front wing too far aft for a formula board.)

I have been going through this issue myself. I am trying to mate a Moses Race foil to a Mike's Lab formula board with a more-forward finbox. The board has just one footstrap position--not adjustable. The front wing is too far forward of the mid point between front and back footstraps. To foil it under control I have to ride strapless by standing in front of the footstraps. It makes for a nice sweet ride, but I'd rather be in the straps (old formula habits are hard to break).

One trick that the Seattle guys use is to use "negative" shims that reduce the down angle of the stab. This keeps the foil more stable with changing speeds, and has the effect of making it feel like the front wing is further aft. I will be experimenting with this next spring.

But you gotta measure it to see exactly where your front wing is located relative to your footstraps. Three years ago I made a youtube that shows you how to do this. The youtube shows a freeride foil with a forward-raked strut, but most foils are 90 degrees, so you don't need to use a right-angle tool like I showed. The youtube shows my formula board with the more-forward finbox and a freeride foil with 88 cm fuselage, which balances nicely.

You're right about the box being way aft, that's why I've stuck with the 115/115+ so far. I can shim the stab, that's good. I'll have 2-3 days of high wind conditions to experiment with these settings. Thanks for the tip and video.

Let us know how it goes. Any feedback about this will help me in my future tunings and shimmings.

I apologize... read original post again.
For high wind, like 26 knot gusts, a wave or freeride sail probably will not work well.
A freeride or wave 5 meter is similar to a 7-7.5 racing tail for wind speed.
For high wind and racefoils, you really need 4.7-5.8 full race sails.
A 4.2 rec sail would shorten your range and make your rig very twitchy.

I've used a 4.2 wave sail with a formula board and the 95 fuse. It worked well with the mast base at the front of the short track and I could still use the footstraps. The 115+ is a different beast though so as WOH says you will have to stand in front of the straps. A 255 stabiliser would also help rather than the 330. Have fun and let us know how you go.

100Kg starboard race 115+, 255 -2, ala delantera de 1000, con tabla de formula y vela de 5m en 20 nudos y olas producidas por el viento. Es agradable tanto contra el viento como a favor del viento! ahora si la superficie del agua esta plana se aguanta un poco mas! Nunca he podido superar los 20 nudos de velocidad maxima!!

It's the "255 -2" for a 5m sail that works for foilarg. With that long of a fuselage and the plus designation to locate the front wing even further foward, you have to shim the stab at a smaller down angle to keep the foil under control with a small sail. This lets you stand further aft in the footstraps.

Guys in Seattle are doing exactly this with their SB race foils and small sails.

If you run a really big sail (8.5 and up) you get enough mast base pressure to allow a bigger stab down angle (zero or plus shim) so that you can stay aft in the footstraps.

Segler, gracias!! mi estabilizador es 255 -2, y lo uso con calza 0 grados! dices que es mejor con 5m de vela usar el -0.5 grados? en mas de 20 nudos de viento!

Hey foilarg, I think you have to experiment with the shims and see what works for your combination of sail and wind. In general, however, flattening the stab down angle such that it is nearer to the angle of attack of the front wing is what you have to do with small sails.