I am searching for the perfect foil to do windfoiling, wingfoiling and prone foiling...
So today i borrowed the phantasm wing kit with the 92 mast, the ptm926 and the 710 fuse and i try windfoiling with it.
My board is a home made custom 175 x 65 x 91 litres.
There is a deep Tuttle box and two tracks rail just in front of it. So i can use a short fuselage with it.
There was around 15 knots and i put my 3.7 because my 4.5 died last time.

It is a bit hard to take the flight because the wind was light and it is difficult to translate the power of the sail to the foil because the mast is a bit forward so the board turn left and right when i push with my back foot (yaw in english?)

As soon as the board get a bit off speed the take off is really smooth and happens at really low speed. At low speed the foil is really really tricky in pitch like roller coster thing. But when the speed increases the foil becomes much more stable. Good cruising speed, nice glide feeling, good upwind capabilities. I am really surprised of the stability for a short fuselage. The turns in the swell or when jibing are mind blowing.
I think slingshot have made a brillant front wing/stab combo.
I am not really convinced by the 92 mast : it is really nice, it seems solid and stiff... But in fact it is not stiff at all in the low end where there is the "big foot connections". Because when you fly really high you can feel the fuselage going left and right and dancing underneath! Is it a problem ? I am not sure because it allows you to feel the hight : my fuse is dancing i must go down
It was the same thing with my old GW 101.

So i think the phantasm could be the one if i take the 82 mast with the 710 fuse and the ptm926...
Is 82 enough for windfoiling ?
I am sure it is perfect for winging and good for prone...

for a narrow board like yours the 82 mast should be fine, longer masts are good for wider boards when you lean them over going upwind.

For wind foiling I use: 92cm mast, 872 fuse, ptm926 for 10-15 knots and pfi730 for 15-30 knots

For winging I use: 82cm mast, 710 fuse, ptm926 for 10-10 nots and pfi730 for 20-20 knots

using the 710 fuse for wind foiling is not really recommended, its very pitchy and the yaw issue you mention is not enough board/foil speed.
1000% use the 872 fuse for wind foiling its night and day different. The mast to fuse connection is VERY stiff (I am 90kg) and so nothing is flexing on the 92cm mast its that you do not have foil balanced yet. You also mention a custom board and so you need to spend time dialing in the mast base location and foil location. We all ride different with different heights and body weights so you have to do the trial and error thing.

Once you get a longer fuse and if its too pitchy then move foil back in the tracks.

FYI - I prefer the 82cm mast for winging as I don't need to ride as high, its less draggy and I can jump better with a shorter mast. I like to wind foil in deep ocean swells and I choose the 92cm mast as it covers all peaks and troughs.

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Sandman1221 said..
for a narrow board like yours the 82 mast should be fine, longer masts are good for wider boards when you lean them over going upwind.

With the phantasm set up you can ride as small a board as you like as its been more free foiling tested! Alot of slingshot wind foilers ride with the 103W mast and the Gorge riders foil with the 125W mast on <90liters boards.

thanks for your comments!
CoreAs i have watched your video on the phantasm, great reviews!
I am 62 kg and i am surprised because i found the 92 flexy in the base and you are 90 and you don't!!! Do you think it is due to the short fuselage?
because when i ride at mid height i can lean on the sail and get good speed with stability and ease (and great pleasure ^^) and the mast seems ok. But when i fly really high because of a wave or whatever, i really feel the mast base "twitching". It is really the same feeling i had with the GW 101. I have also a old lokefoil lk1 and it is so stiff you can ride full height and stay stable (the drawback is that you don't really know when you are at max height so you breach ^^)

Or perhaps this flexy feel is because i have the rear foot behind the mast because of my rail track location? (just in front of the deep tuttle, i will try to find a photo)

I have an AFS W95 foil it is very stiff like the Lokefoil, it takes practice to learn how high you can go without breaching, but as long as you have enough speed you can land a breach and keep on going, just takes balance and practice. When the wing is very close to the surface you can feel it (F1080 cm2 wing is easier to feel than F770 cm2 wing) especially in waves when only one wing tip comes out, but it is a subtle feeling so you have to pay attention to your height and feedback from the wing.

yes it takes one or two breaches to get used to the good height of flight!
The afs is known to be really locked. Do you use it in waves? is it manoeuvrable?
the full carbon tbar monobloc are really stiff and light weight.
Lokefoil is developping a range of surffoil and wingfoil and the wings are compatible with the windfoil fuselage/tbar.
In my "one foil quest " i am hesitating between phantasm and lokefoil. Sabfoil could be interested but i am a bit lost with their strange compabilities between fuse and mast, 6 or 8 mm screws etc... besides sabfoil long chord wings can be mounted on phantasm fuse....
This week i will try the new lokefoil 1100 freeride wing which is good for turning apparently.

But i am really really impressed by the ptm926 wing and the 400 stab. Very good speed (for a big wing) and very nice glide feeling with a top manoeuvrability

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Clemop said..
thanks for your comments!
CoreAs i have watched your video on the phantasm, great reviews!
I am 62 kg and i am surprised because i found the 92 flexy in the base and you are 90 and you don't!!! Do you think it is due to the short fuselage?
because when i ride at mid height i can lean on the sail and get good speed with stability and ease (and great pleasure ^^) and the mast seems ok. But when i fly really high because of a wave or whatever, i really feel the mast base "twitching". It is really the same feeling i had with the GW 101. I have also a old lokefoil lk1 and it is so stiff you can ride full height and stay stable (the drawback is that you don't really know when you are at max height so you breach ^^)

Or perhaps this flexy feel is because i have the rear foot behind the mast because of my rail track location? (just in front of the deep tuttle, i will try to find a photo)

I noticed in your pic that you use Tuttle with the AFS system and you obviously use the twin tracks with the phantasm, maybe the flexing
is coming from either the foil to far forward in feel rather than the AFS...maybe its twisting from the twin tracks?

The shorter fuse will have much less twist and after over a year of testing the phantasm the mast to fuse foot is one of the largest in the industry and I cannot foresee that's the issue.

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Clemop said..
yes it takes one or two breaches to get used to the good height of flight!
The afs is known to be really locked. Do you use it in waves? is it manoeuvrable?
the full carbon tbar monobloc are really stiff and light weight.
Lokefoil is developping a range of surffoil and wingfoil and the wings are compatible with the windfoil fuselage/tbar.
In my "one foil quest " i am hesitating between phantasm and lokefoil. Sabfoil could be interested but i am a bit lost with their strange compabilities between fuse and mast, 6 or 8 mm screws etc... besides sabfoil long chord wings can be mounted on phantasm fuse....
This week i will try the new lokefoil 1100 freeride wing which is good for turning apparently.

But i am really really impressed by the ptm926 wing and the 400 stab. Very good speed (for a big wing) and very nice glide feeling with a top manoeuvrability

Yes, use AFS W95 in waves and is very maneuverable, but the largest wing F1080 cm2 does not interact with the waves/swell, which is good for me. AFS also has a line of foils for waves, send them an email and see what they recommend.

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CoreAS said..

Clemop said..
thanks for your comments!
CoreAs i have watched your video on the phantasm, great reviews!
I am 62 kg and i am surprised because i found the 92 flexy in the base and you are 90 and you don't!!! Do you think it is due to the short fuselage?
because when i ride at mid height i can lean on the sail and get good speed with stability and ease (and great pleasure ^^) and the mast seems ok. But when i fly really high because of a wave or whatever, i really feel the mast base "twitching". It is really the same feeling i had with the GW 101. I have also a old lokefoil lk1 and it is so stiff you can ride full height and stay stable (the drawback is that you don't really know when you are at max height so you breach ^^)

Or perhaps this flexy feel is because i have the rear foot behind the mast because of my rail track location? (just in front of the deep tuttle, i will try to find a photo)

I noticed in your pic that you use Tuttle with the AFS system and you obviously use the twin tracks with the phantasm, maybe the flexing
is coming from either the foil to far forward in feel rather than the AFS...maybe its twisting from the twin tracks?

The shorter fuse will have much less twist and after over a year of testing the phantasm the mast to fuse foot is one of the largest in the industry and I cannot foresee that's the issue.

the foil was still in place and tighten at the end of the session. You are right maybe it is because it is too far forward and my back foot is slightly behind the mast. So when i push with it it must apply more torque combined with the front foot pressure and the mast base it must add twist...
I put the mast at the end of the twin tracks near the deep tuttle and in fact i had a bit too much back foot pressure. I have noticed with another foil that "back footed" setup tends to feel a bit twisty.
I will see with the shop if i can sail one more time with it. And try to move the foil a bit forward and see if it is better or not.

I am afraid that buying the long fuselage doesn't solve the problem if it is a matter of foil positionning... or i will have to buy the jack plate adaptator to put it in the dtt ... or maybe it is the perfect reason to make a new board

The problem is the short fuselage.

thanks for your answer
My shop is offering me a deal with 82 mast ptm926 400 stab and 650 fuse for wing and prone and 870 for windfoiling
i'll buy a longer mast later if needed!