The previous post re best board size for foil slalom piqued my interest in regards to a one board solution for wave wind foiling. My thoughts are, in terms of volume, the smallest board you can uphaul. For me that my weight plus 20 litres, or 87 + 20 i.e 107 litres. Width around 66cm and length 180cm.

I think it needs to be considered as a full set up, not just board.
My Tabou pocket air is 97L 170*69. I can uphaul @80kg and have used it with a sail range of 5.7-3.7( I have a 3.3 but haven't used it yet on this board). I ride it strapless 12-22knts. Mainly with AXIS HPS 880 (1100 area) but occasionally HPS 700 (890 area). Short fuse(703mm), progressive 425 tail (227 area), 82cm mast.

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lao shi said..
I think it needs to be considered as a full set up, not just board.
My Tabou pocket air is 97L 170*69. I can uphaul @80kg and have used it with a sail range of 5.7-3.7( I have a 3.3 but haven't used it yet on this board). I ride it strapless 12-22knts. Mainly with AXIS HPS 880 (1100 area) but occasionally HPS 700 (890 area). Short fuse(703mm), progressive 425 tail (227 area), 82cm mast.

Good point, how much difference does the short fuse make?

My full setup is:
Predator 110, 190x68. I use with 5.3, 4.7 & 4.2 in 12 to 22kts mainly with a Slingshot PTM 899 (925 area) but sometimes a Sabfoil WO940 (1100 area) if the base wind is below 12. Long fuse (868mm) PS 340 (184 area) Turbo stab and 103cm mast.

Maybe give the Maverick a look at the below website.
www.reefwarriorsboards.com/foilboard

Whatever you feel comfortable on for your conditions....

weight plus 20L prob makes sense, assuming much of your WWF will be in slog and ride fin conditions

I'm 90kg and 90 litres works just fine. A few minutes to figure out the uphaul technique on the first ride enables all the benefits of the smaller board.

I thought this would be a higher wind alternative to my Alien 115, but there have been no disadvantages in lighter wind, even slogging is doable. With sails 5.3m and smaller, take-off on 115 and 90 is pretty much the same. A lot of recommendations for 20 litres above body weight, but I don't see it necessary.

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obenebo said..
I'm 90kg and 90 litres works just fine. A few minutes to figure out the uphaul technique on the first ride enables all the benefits of the smaller board.

I thought this would be a higher wind alternative to my Alien 115, but there have been no disadvantages in lighter wind, even slogging is doable. With sails 5.3m and smaller, take-off on 115 and 90 is pretty much the same. A lot of recommendations for 20 litres above body weight, but I don't see it necessary.

Can you please describe your light wind takeoff technique? I'm a little heavier and getting a freestyle 115 going in lighter winds has been a struggle

Takeoff technique... combination of foot and sail pumping, unweight the board and bare off on any chop and swell, all in the timing.

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obenebo said..
unweight

That's the magic word !

It really depends on your conditions and skill level and how difficult you want to make it for yourself. Uphauling in waves way more tricky than flat waterand on a very small board requires lots of skill. 20 liters above body weight is a bit small for me... I would go 30KG but at 66 and sail on PPB which is always rough, just dont want it to be too hard.

My mediocre self says that WWF became a lot nore possible when I got a board with a three strap setup with the front two centered and touching. When they were wider than that I had a hard time getting centered and low and feeling ok.

That and a lower area tail with vee made it controllable. I can actually attempt and sometimes make jibes with some push by the swell now if I get the timing right. But I've still got tons to learn.
Being able to pull up with the rear center strap has saved me a bunch now. When I had a wider setup it was much more difficult to get in them so I didn't use them.

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John340 said..

lao shi said..
I think it needs to be considered as a full set up, not just board.
My Tabou pocket air is 97L 170*69. I can uphaul @80kg and have used it with a sail range of 5.7-3.7( I have a 3.3 but haven't used it yet on this board). I ride it strapless 12-22knts. Mainly with AXIS HPS 880 (1100 area) but occasionally HPS 700 (890 area). Short fuse(703mm), progressive 425 tail (227 area), 82cm mast.

Good point, how much difference does the short fuse make?

My full setup is:
Predator 110, 190x68. I use with 5.3, 4.7 & 4.2 in 12 to 22kts mainly with a Slingshot PTM 899 (925 area) but sometimes a Sabfoil WO940 (1100 area) if the base wind is below 12. Long fuse (868mm) PS 340 (184 area) Turbo stab and 103cm mast.

Short fuse works well when comfortably powered but is hard work when overpowered. Allows the bigger 1100 area wing to turn nicely and possibly go a bit quicker but I don't have any quantitative evidence to prove that.
As had been pointed out I do ride this set up with the back foot behind the mast against the kick pad

I'm 62 kg, I like things easy when it comes to up hauling/big seas and winds going to zero, so bit larger board than what I read here, 176x80 114 l, larger bevels on the sides, no cut out, I use standard fuselage from Gong, no special extensions, 70-76 cm depending on stab

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John340 said..

lao shi said..
I think it needs to be considered as a full set up, not just board.
My Tabou pocket air is 97L 170*69. I can uphaul @80kg and have used it with a sail range of 5.7-3.7( I have a 3.3 but haven't used it yet on this board). I ride it strapless 12-22knts. Mainly with AXIS HPS 880 (1100 area) but occasionally HPS 700 (890 area). Short fuse(703mm), progressive 425 tail (227 area), 82cm mast.

Good point, how much difference does the short fuse make?

My full setup is:
Predator 110, 190x68. I use with 5.3, 4.7 & 4.2 in 12 to 22kts mainly with a Slingshot PTM 899 (925 area) but sometimes a Sabfoil WO940 (1100 area) if the base wind is below 12. Long fuse (868mm) PS 340 (184 area) Turbo stab and 103cm mast.

How would you rate the Sabfoil WO940 foil? I see that you use it when wind is below 12kn while I was assuming it is more a fast high wind foil with progressive lift? Reason Im asking is that I will be getting one soon but thought I would need a wing better suited to low wind windfoiling next to it.

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TomDW said..

John340 said..

lao shi said..
I think it needs to be considered as a full set up, not just board.
My Tabou pocket air is 97L 170*69. I can uphaul @80kg and have used it with a sail range of 5.7-3.7( I have a 3.3 but haven't used it yet on this board). I ride it strapless 12-22knts. Mainly with AXIS HPS 880 (1100 area) but occasionally HPS 700 (890 area). Short fuse(703mm), progressive 425 tail (227 area), 82cm mast.

Good point, how much difference does the short fuse make?

My full setup is:
Predator 110, 190x68. I use with 5.3, 4.7 & 4.2 in 12 to 22kts mainly with a Slingshot PTM 899 (925 area) but sometimes a Sabfoil WO940 (1100 area) if the base wind is below 12. Long fuse (868mm) PS 340 (184 area) Turbo stab and 103cm mast.

How would you rate the Sabfoil WO940 foil? I see that you use it when wind is below 12kn while I was assuming it is more a fast high wind foil with progressive lift? Reason Im asking is that I will be getting one soon but thought I would need a wing better suited to low wind windfoiling next to it.

The 940 was my go-to foil until I got my 899. Now, I try to get on the 899 as early as possible. If I was buying new, I get the Sabfoil Medusa 909 as my one foil quiver

Just my 2 cents worth as there has been a lot of good advice provided already
I think looking at the entire kit makes sense but you need to be comfortable with it and I do think it depends on what WWF means to you as there are a few different ways to have fun and different kit performs better for different styles. And I think there are compromises with most changes in gear.

For example,
Downwind carving powered up might have smaller faster foils and smaller boards
While Downwind wave riding with the sail flagged might go better with bigger foils and bigger boards but with tiny sails

I love all the different styles but prefer to take advantage of the reef waves that are about 90 degrees to the wind i get to ride in maui.

I am about 85kg and have a board about 110L that i ride strapless (not good enough to ride with straps) Its about 6ft long and 27 inches wide. I ride with freestyle sails 4.4 and 3.6 from about 15mph to 30 mph and a 3.0 free ride sail up to 40mph. I do have a 5.4 freestyle sail that I bring out when there are no white caps
I ride an SAB 808/325 combo on a custom 830 fuselage unless its too light then I will go to a 835 or even a 940. I should add that I have reduced the distance between the sail and foil by having a custom board made with a more aft mast track and a custom fuselage that moves the foil forward. I think it just loosens things up.
I also prefer a tuttle connection as I find it stiffer and my board shaper says it's a pound or 2 lighter. But I think sailing strapless allows me to avoid moving the foil around by moving my feet instead. Each to their own as tracks and straps have plenty of benefits as well.

I love to carve hard on the wave face, if I don't blow up, as I have a better chance of staying on the wave face with the tighter turning gear. So the smaller foil and and sails help me maximize the fun. The bigger board just lets me get going on the smaller foil and sail easier. I say bigger board but it only weighs 13lb so the swing weight is still pretty low. Hope this long answer helps.

If a picture is worth a 1000 words here you go

That looks awesome!

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Hess said..
Just my 2 cents worth as there has been a lot of good advice provided already
I think looking at the entire kit makes sense but you need to be comfortable with it and I do think it depends on what WWF means to you as there are a few different ways to have fun and different kit performs better for different styles. And I think there are compromises with most changes in gear.

For example,
Downwind carving powered up might have smaller faster foils and smaller boards
While Downwind wave riding with the sail flagged might go better with bigger foils and bigger boards but with tiny sails

I love all the different styles but prefer to take advantage of the reef waves that are about 90 degrees to the wind i get to ride in maui.

I am about 85kg and have a board about 110L that i ride strapless (not good enough to ride with straps) Its about 6ft long and 27 inches wide. I ride with freestyle sails 4.4 and 3.6 from about 15mph to 30 mph and a 3.0 free ride sail up to 40mph. I do have a 5.4 freestyle sail that I bring out when there are no white caps
I ride an SAB 808/325 combo on a custom 830 fuselage unless its too light then I will go to a 835 or even a 940. I should add that I have reduced the distance between the sail and foil by having a custom board made with a more aft mast track and a custom fuselage that moves the foil forward. I think it just loosens things up.
I also prefer a tuttle connection as I find it stiffer and my board shaper says it's a pound or 2 lighter. But I think sailing strapless allows me to avoid moving the foil around by moving my feet instead. Each to their own as tracks and straps have plenty of benefits as well.

I love to carve hard on the wave face, if I don't blow up, as I have a better chance of staying on the wave face with the tighter turning gear. So the smaller foil and and sails help me maximize the fun. The bigger board just lets me get going on the smaller foil and sail easier. I say bigger board but it only weighs 13lb so the swing weight is still pretty low. Hope this long answer helps.

If a picture is worth a 1000 words here you go

That's very cool, top edit and soundtrack. Good to see you keeping the sail-power on in the carves

We need to invent a camera that doesn't shrink the swells

Select to expand quote

Hess said..
Just my 2 cents worth as there has been a lot of good advice provided already
I think looking at the entire kit makes sense but you need to be comfortable with it and I do think it depends on what WWF means to you as there are a few different ways to have fun and different kit performs better for different styles. And I think there are compromises with most changes in gear.

For example,
Downwind carving powered up might have smaller faster foils and smaller boards
While Downwind wave riding with the sail flagged might go better with bigger foils and bigger boards but with tiny sails

I love all the different styles but prefer to take advantage of the reef waves that are about 90 degrees to the wind i get to ride in maui.

I am about 85kg and have a board about 110L that i ride strapless (not good enough to ride with straps) Its about 6ft long and 27 inches wide. I ride with freestyle sails 4.4 and 3.6 from about 15mph to 30 mph and a 3.0 free ride sail up to 40mph. I do have a 5.4 freestyle sail that I bring out when there are no white caps
I ride an SAB 808/325 combo on a custom 830 fuselage unless its too light then I will go to a 835 or even a 940. I should add that I have reduced the distance between the sail and foil by having a custom board made with a more aft mast track and a custom fuselage that moves the foil forward. I think it just loosens things up.
I also prefer a tuttle connection as I find it stiffer and my board shaper says it's a pound or 2 lighter. But I think sailing strapless allows me to avoid moving the foil around by moving my feet instead. Each to their own as tracks and straps have plenty of benefits as well.

I love to carve hard on the wave face, if I don't blow up, as I have a better chance of staying on the wave face with the tighter turning gear. So the smaller foil and and sails help me maximize the fun. The bigger board just lets me get going on the smaller foil and sail easier. I say bigger board but it only weighs 13lb so the swing weight is still pretty low. Hope this long answer helps.

If a picture is worth a 1000 words here you go

Dude pretty sure you have gone from a 945/483 combo to an 808/325 on a custom 830 fuse.. In waves
More than capable of sailing with footstraps BUT why would you bother! Great video love your "strapless" style

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2keen said..

Hess said..
Just my 2 cents worth as there has been a lot of good advice provided already
I think looking at the entire kit makes sense but you need to be comfortable with it and I do think it depends on what WWF means to you as there are a few different ways to have fun and different kit performs better for different styles. And I think there are compromises with most changes in gear.

For example,
Downwind carving powered up might have smaller faster foils and smaller boards
While Downwind wave riding with the sail flagged might go better with bigger foils and bigger boards but with tiny sails

I love all the different styles but prefer to take advantage of the reef waves that are about 90 degrees to the wind i get to ride in maui.

I am about 85kg and have a board about 110L that i ride strapless (not good enough to ride with straps) Its about 6ft long and 27 inches wide. I ride with freestyle sails 4.4 and 3.6 from about 15mph to 30 mph and a 3.0 free ride sail up to 40mph. I do have a 5.4 freestyle sail that I bring out when there are no white caps
I ride an SAB 808/325 combo on a custom 830 fuselage unless its too light then I will go to a 835 or even a 940. I should add that I have reduced the distance between the sail and foil by having a custom board made with a more aft mast track and a custom fuselage that moves the foil forward. I think it just loosens things up.
I also prefer a tuttle connection as I find it stiffer and my board shaper says it's a pound or 2 lighter. But I think sailing strapless allows me to avoid moving the foil around by moving my feet instead. Each to their own as tracks and straps have plenty of benefits as well.

I love to carve hard on the wave face, if I don't blow up, as I have a better chance of staying on the wave face with the tighter turning gear. So the smaller foil and and sails help me maximize the fun. The bigger board just lets me get going on the smaller foil and sail easier. I say bigger board but it only weighs 13lb so the swing weight is still pretty low. Hope this long answer helps.

If a picture is worth a 1000 words here you go

Dude pretty sure you have gone from a 945/483 combo to an 808/325 on a custom 830 fuse.. In waves
More than capable of sailing with footstraps BUT why would you bother! Great video love your "strapless" style

Thanks thats very nice of you to say.

The vid is actually a year old when i was still riding the 835/370 combo.

I find the 808/325 combo even more fun in the carves without giving up much on the low end. In the bigger/faster waves (i have learnt waves vary in speed) i found moving to the smaller foils felt more in control as the foil speed was better suited to the wave speed and size. And the fun factor just keeps going up.

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azymuth said..

Hess said..
Just my 2 cents worth as there has been a lot of good advice provided already
I think looking at the entire kit makes sense but you need to be comfortable with it and I do think it depends on what WWF means to you as there are a few different ways to have fun and different kit performs better for different styles. And I think there are compromises with most changes in gear.

For example,
Downwind carving powered up might have smaller faster foils and smaller boards
While Downwind wave riding with the sail flagged might go better with bigger foils and bigger boards but with tiny sails

I love all the different styles but prefer to take advantage of the reef waves that are about 90 degrees to the wind i get to ride in maui.

I am about 85kg and have a board about 110L that i ride strapless (not good enough to ride with straps) Its about 6ft long and 27 inches wide. I ride with freestyle sails 4.4 and 3.6 from about 15mph to 30 mph and a 3.0 free ride sail up to 40mph. I do have a 5.4 freestyle sail that I bring out when there are no white caps
I ride an SAB 808/325 combo on a custom 830 fuselage unless its too light then I will go to a 835 or even a 940. I should add that I have reduced the distance between the sail and foil by having a custom board made with a more aft mast track and a custom fuselage that moves the foil forward. I think it just loosens things up.
I also prefer a tuttle connection as I find it stiffer and my board shaper says it's a pound or 2 lighter. But I think sailing strapless allows me to avoid moving the foil around by moving my feet instead. Each to their own as tracks and straps have plenty of benefits as well.

I love to carve hard on the wave face, if I don't blow up, as I have a better chance of staying on the wave face with the tighter turning gear. So the smaller foil and and sails help me maximize the fun. The bigger board just lets me get going on the smaller foil and sail easier. I say bigger board but it only weighs 13lb so the swing weight is still pretty low. Hope this long answer helps.

If a picture is worth a 1000 words here you go

That's very cool, top edit and soundtrack. Good to see you keeping the sail-power on in the carves

We need to invent a camera that doesn't shrink the swells

Thanks we just want keep folks pumped about WWF
Your right about the "Shrinking wave issue" especially on wide angle shots. I often stop your vids to get a true appreciation of the conditions. The waves look small in my vid but where almost getting too big for me

Select to expand quote

Hess said..

azymuth said..

Hess said..
Just my 2 cents worth as there has been a lot of good advice provided already
I think looking at the entire kit makes sense but you need to be comfortable with it and I do think it depends on what WWF means to you as there are a few different ways to have fun and different kit performs better for different styles. And I think there are compromises with most changes in gear.

For example,
Downwind carving powered up might have smaller faster foils and smaller boards
While Downwind wave riding with the sail flagged might go better with bigger foils and bigger boards but with tiny sails

I love all the different styles but prefer to take advantage of the reef waves that are about 90 degrees to the wind i get to ride in maui.

I am about 85kg and have a board about 110L that i ride strapless (not good enough to ride with straps) Its about 6ft long and 27 inches wide. I ride with freestyle sails 4.4 and 3.6 from about 15mph to 30 mph and a 3.0 free ride sail up to 40mph. I do have a 5.4 freestyle sail that I bring out when there are no white caps
I ride an SAB 808/325 combo on a custom 830 fuselage unless its too light then I will go to a 835 or even a 940. I should add that I have reduced the distance between the sail and foil by having a custom board made with a more aft mast track and a custom fuselage that moves the foil forward. I think it just loosens things up.
I also prefer a tuttle connection as I find it stiffer and my board shaper says it's a pound or 2 lighter. But I think sailing strapless allows me to avoid moving the foil around by moving my feet instead. Each to their own as tracks and straps have plenty of benefits as well.

I love to carve hard on the wave face, if I don't blow up, as I have a better chance of staying on the wave face with the tighter turning gear. So the smaller foil and and sails help me maximize the fun. The bigger board just lets me get going on the smaller foil and sail easier. I say bigger board but it only weighs 13lb so the swing weight is still pretty low. Hope this long answer helps.

If a picture is worth a 1000 words here you go

That's very cool, top edit and soundtrack. Good to see you keeping the sail-power on in the carves

We need to invent a camera that doesn't shrink the swells

Thanks we just want keep folks pumped about WWF
Your right about the "Shrinking wave issue" especially on wide angle shots. I often stop your vids to get a true appreciation of the conditions. The waves look small in my vid but where almost getting too big for me

Sounds like Silversun Pickups. Nice riding.

I'm currently running the 835 and am interested in your feedback on the 808 vs 835. Also did you try the 707?

Hey Rewind, comparing the 808 and 835 overall I would say they are close enough that I might not get both unless you want something similar

Non the less here are some of the things I noticed
The 808 is more maneuverable, slightly faster and does not loose much on the low end. The 808 seemed to want to stay on its angle of roll a little more than the 835 not to say it is not loose or maneuverable but I would say its a little more stable in roll.

I found the 808 to be heavier in the hand and seems more solid when riding though white water. I am guessing it has more carbon and is a hair thicker and therefore may flex less.

I have no science for any of the above but its just how they compared to me free riding and wave riding. No jumping or free-styling as I am not worthy.