This year, I have primarily been using my "shortish" freeride board (Tabout Magic Carpet 125) and Low to mid aspect foils Sabfoil 1100, 790, 950 on a Sabfoil 85 mast. As they get more dialed in, the 1100 and 790 works better on that board than my JP 135.

A few days ago, I figured that I should try the F4 Racing foil Medium size (2018-ish, 900/870cm2, 1000 fuse, integrated Front wing and fuse), on my JP 135 and Ezzy Cheetah 6.5. The average wind was a bit too light (8 knots), but I had some gusts (10-12) that helped me up on the foil, and then I just stayed up. What a different experience from the freeride foils. Extremely stable, quiet and fast for the wind strength, ... and apparently unaffected by wake and small chop.

So, I was thinking... maybe I can get going in ever lower wind on the Large wing of that Racing set - getting up in 6 knots wind with some pumping. But I have so far not been lucky in finding one. I could try to see if my Severne Turbo 7.5 would help in low wind, but not sure if it has the same low end as the Cheetah 6.5 to get going. Have so far not been thinking seriously about using my Ezzy Cheetah 8.5 for foiling. Until I get the opportunity to test these sail options, I have been thinking of Sabfoil options.

I have a Sabfoil M103K mast waiting to be used - marketed as fast/racing. If I buy a fuse and stab, I belive that I could use that mast with a Sabfoil Blade 1000 or Red Devil 874. Would these give me an even earlier lift, and similarly quiet, stable and fast cruising? This would be much cheaper than getting a new F4 set with "Large" or similar.

I am thinking of fast cruising, not racing/competing, in 7-15 knots.

Sounds like you want something that goes faster than your 1100 in lightwind? I suspect if the goal is speed in light winds you would want a small foil/big sail option

Try the Turbo. Cheetahs are nice fin sails but the lack of cams becomes apparent when using the bigger sizes. 1m2 is a noticeable difference, too. The big cheetah may take off a touch sooner but i suspect the draft moving about once in the air won't be pleasant in a gust plus I suspect the turbo will pump a bit better having some built in shape.
From severne's website:
With 2 cams to enhance foil stability, the Turbo is a lightweight performance freeride sail.

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thedoor said..
Sounds like you want something that goes faster than your 1100 in lightwind? I suspect if the goal is speed in light winds you would want a small foil/big sail option

Yes, faster than the 1100 and for that I am willing to sacrifice maneuverability - this is for cruising/touring.

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Paducah said..
Try the Turbo. Cheetahs are nice fin sails but the lack of cams becomes apparent when using the bigger sizes. 1m2 is a noticeable difference, too. The big cheetah may take off a touch sooner but i suspect the draft moving about once in the air won't be pleasant in a gust plus I suspect the turbo will pump a bit better having some built in shape.
From severne's website:
With 2 cams to enhance foil stability, the Turbo is a lightweight performance freeride sail.

I know that the Turbo will convert gusts into speed better - at least on my slalom boards. Will try.

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snowsurf said..
This year, I have primarily been using my "shortish" freeride board (Tabout Magic Carpet 125) and Low to mid aspect foils Sabfoil 1100, 790, 950 on a Sabfoil 85 mast. As they get more dialed in, the 1100 and 790 works better on that board than my JP 135.

A few days ago, I figured that I should try the F4 Racing foil Medium size (2018-ish, 900/870cm2, 1000 fuse, integrated Front wing and fuse), on my JP 135 and Ezzy Cheetah 6.5. The average wind was a bit too light (8 knots), but I had some gusts (10-12) that helped me up on the foil, and then I just stayed up. What a different experience from the freeride foils. Extremely stable, quiet and fast for the wind strength, ... and apparently unaffected by wake and small chop.

So, I was thinking... maybe I can get going in ever lower wind on the Large wing of that Racing set - getting up in 6 knots wind with some pumping. But I have so far not been lucky in finding one. I could try to see if my Severne Turbo 7.5 would help in low wind, but not sure if it has the same low end as the Cheetah 6.5 to get going. Have so far not been thinking seriously about using my Ezzy Cheetah 8.5 for foiling. Until I get the opportunity to test these sail options, I have been thinking of Sabfoil options.

I have a Sabfoil M103K mast waiting to be used - marketed as fast/racing. If I buy a fuse and stab, I belive that I could use that mast with a Sabfoil Blade 1000 or Red Devil 874. Would these give me an even earlier lift, and similarly quiet, stable and fast cruising? This would be much cheaper than getting a new F4 set with "Large" or similar.

I am thinking of fast cruising, not racing/competing, in 7-15 knots.

The reason why I am mentioning the Red Devil, is that Sabfoil is stating a great low end for this foil (7-9 knots), while having a great high end. Not sure whether the low end is a typo on their website.

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Paducah said..
Try the Turbo. Cheetahs are nice fin sails but the lack of cams becomes apparent when using the bigger sizes. 1m2 is a noticeable difference, too. The big cheetah may take off a touch sooner but i suspect the draft moving about once in the air won't be pleasant in a gust plus I suspect the turbo will pump a bit better having some built in shape.
From severne's website:
With 2 cams to enhance foil stability, the Turbo is a lightweight performance freeride sail.

Yes I recently did try my 9.5 cheetah, and compared to the 9.0 HGO or 8.0 Foil glide, it felt very soft with a shifty center of effort. It felt extremely soft when trying to pump on to the foil compared to either. This was on 900/115+

Also the mast I used with the cheetah was an 80% sdm. Much better for fin.

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snowsurf said..

thedoor said..
Sounds like you want something that goes faster than your 1100 in lightwind? I suspect if the goal is speed in light winds you would want a small foil/big sail option

Yes, faster than the 1100 and for that I am willing to sacrifice maneuverability - this is for cruising/touring.

If you already have the 103K mast, then I would look into either the blade or the red devil with the 1m fuse. It isn't clear to me if the red devil fuse is compatible with 103K mast

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snowsurf said..
I am thinking of fast cruising, not racing/competing, in 7-15 knots.

Optimal fast cruising in light 7-15 knot winds is a worthwhile quest
Being able to upwind at 20, reach at 25 in 15 knots.
Still retaining good maneuverability so downwind carving ocean groundswell is possible.

Kind of reducing (in size and expense) the full race gear by some margin I guess.
Minimum board width, sail size, foil size?

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azymuth said..

snowsurf said..
I am thinking of fast cruising, not racing/competing, in 7-15 knots.

Optimal fast cruising in light 7-15 knot winds is a worthwhile quest
Being able to upwind at 20, reach at 25 in 15 knots.
Still retaining good maneuverability so downwind carving ocean groundswell is possible.

Kind of reducing (in size and expense) the full race gear by some margin I guess.
Minimum board width, sail size, foil size?

Sounds like a dream... No groundswell here, sadly, so no downwind carving in light wind.

I was planning to use the JP 135 (85 wide) and Cheetah 6.5 Turbo 7.5 for this.
Foil size/type/model... you tell me.

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thedoor said..

snowsurf said..

thedoor said..
Sounds like you want something that goes faster than your 1100 in lightwind? I suspect if the goal is speed in light winds you would want a small foil/big sail option

Yes, faster than the 1100 and for that I am willing to sacrifice maneuverability - this is for cruising/touring.

If you already have the 103K mast, then I would look into either the blade or the red devil with the 1m fuse. It isn't clear to me if the red devil fuse is compatible with 103K mast

For Red Devil fuse, Sabfoil states R8 Fuse to Mast Connection, and lists several of the "classic" (not red devil) masts as compatible. M103K is not sold anymore, so not on that list.

What I struggle to belive, is that the Sabfoil Red Devil 874 has take off speed as low as 7-9 kn (with a top end of 30 kn), ref. this page: sabfoil.com/en/products/red-devil-874.

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snowsurf said..

thedoor said..

snowsurf said..

thedoor said..
Sounds like you want something that goes faster than your 1100 in lightwind? I suspect if the goal is speed in light winds you would want a small foil/big sail option

Yes, faster than the 1100 and for that I am willing to sacrifice maneuverability - this is for cruising/touring.

If you already have the 103K mast, then I would look into either the blade or the red devil with the 1m fuse. It isn't clear to me if the red devil fuse is compatible with 103K mast

For Red Devil fuse, Sabfoil states R8 Fuse to Mast Connection, and lists several of the "classic" (not red devil) masts as compatible. M103K is not sold anymore, so not on that list.

What I struggle to belive, is that the Sabfoil Red Devil 874 has take off speed as low as 7-9 kn (with a top end of 30 kn), ref. this page: sabfoil.com/en/products/red-devil-874.

No idea how they calculate those estimates but I would take them with a grain of salt. There are too many other variables eg stab, deck geometry, shims, fuse length etc. Their site says my daily driver has a take off speed of 13-15 knots but I reckon for me with pumping its prob closer to 8-10 knots

I know gps is only an estimate. My point is more that ideally you would demo before buying one. But as mentioned with the low end its either big sail or big foil

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thedoor said..

snowsurf said..

thedoor said..

snowsurf said..

thedoor said..
Sounds like you want something that goes faster than your 1100 in lightwind? I suspect if the goal is speed in light winds you would want a small foil/big sail option

Yes, faster than the 1100 and for that I am willing to sacrifice maneuverability - this is for cruising/touring.

If you already have the 103K mast, then I would look into either the blade or the red devil with the 1m fuse. It isn't clear to me if the red devil fuse is compatible with 103K mast

For Red Devil fuse, Sabfoil states R8 Fuse to Mast Connection, and lists several of the "classic" (not red devil) masts as compatible. M103K is not sold anymore, so not on that list.

What I struggle to belive, is that the Sabfoil Red Devil 874 has take off speed as low as 7-9 kn (with a top end of 30 kn), ref. this page: sabfoil.com/en/products/red-devil-874.

No idea how they calculate those estimates but I would take them with a grain of salt. There are too many other variables eg stab, deck geometry, shims, fuse length etc. Their site says my daily driver has a take off speed of 13-15 knots but I reckon for me with pumping its prob closer to 8-10 knots

The biggest variables are rider weight and pumping ability/fitness. Try as I might @ 230 lbs. I need more like 10 knots of boards speed to get the 799 flying where my bigger wings are more like 8 knots. Anyone notice the nice heli tack at 37 seconds! Roland and I are chattering more about it here
www.instagram.com/p/C-ifmGcSqBX/

Great "illustration"... and that tack... made me wonder what was going on until you flipped the sail.

I had forgotten to start Waterspeed on my Apple Watch, so no tracking of speed for the round with the old race foil. Will try the bigger Turbo 7.5 to test the difference next time.

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utcminusfour said..

thedoor said..

snowsurf said..

thedoor said..

snowsurf said..

thedoor said..
Sounds like you want something that goes faster than your 1100 in lightwind? I suspect if the goal is speed in light winds you would want a small foil/big sail option

Yes, faster than the 1100 and for that I am willing to sacrifice maneuverability - this is for cruising/touring.

If you already have the 103K mast, then I would look into either the blade or the red devil with the 1m fuse. It isn't clear to me if the red devil fuse is compatible with 103K mast

For Red Devil fuse, Sabfoil states R8 Fuse to Mast Connection, and lists several of the "classic" (not red devil) masts as compatible. M103K is not sold anymore, so not on that list.

What I struggle to belive, is that the Sabfoil Red Devil 874 has take off speed as low as 7-9 kn (with a top end of 30 kn), ref. this page: sabfoil.com/en/products/red-devil-874.

No idea how they calculate those estimates but I would take them with a grain of salt. There are too many other variables eg stab, deck geometry, shims, fuse length etc. Their site says my daily driver has a take off speed of 13-15 knots but I reckon for me with pumping its prob closer to 8-10 knots

The biggest variables are rider weight and pumping ability/fitness. Try as I might @ 230 lbs. I need more like 10 knots of boards speed to get the 799 flying where my bigger wings are more like 8 knots. Anyone notice the nice heli tack at 37 seconds! Roland and I are chattering more about it here
www.instagram.com/p/C-ifmGcSqBX/

Oh yeah weight for sure for take off/stall speed. Wondering about top end. Weight must have much less of an impact?

Weight increases the ability to carry sail, its faster on the top end. Speed sailing and IQ highlight this. If I ever go there I will have my size going for me.

Hello,
here is my small add to the discussion, I am 76kg for 1,82m average level.
my base quiver was a magic carpet 120 with I84 (former hover glide user) and WM899/799/699 +m92 mast using wavescape 6,2 to 3,7 with this quiver I was foiling starting at 10kts passing the low patch at 8kts. I change the board to find back the feeling of wizard 105 on Jp freefoil 105 (the narrower shape is clearly mutch pleasant) I will foil around 10-12kts the 6,2 would need extra power to get the few kts lost example skyscape 6,4 could be a good replacement option.
since I add the M95(tuttle) mast +fuselage F1010 and the w1000/800/740/607 that I mount on a falcon 148l 85 wide and 235 long, sail for below 10kts a switchblade 7,8 (lighter and more convenient than a pure slalom sail) and above a Skyblade 7,0 until 15-18kts (after it is survival mod for my weight would need a smaller foil sail or switch on the original kit)
It get me few session to set the all system and now I foil at 8kts passing the low patch at 6kts.
comparing both kit the jp low end is save by the I84 but speed is super slow and not fun compare to the falcon setup where you are much faster and up wind ability is greater that allow to be able to explore more the area
Down side with my weight if the wind increase I need to reduce the front wing really quickly to avoid an uncomfortable come back with a sail near of the freefly to avoid over powered foil that just uncontrollable.