Hi there I am new to foiling. I have Naish 1150 foil. I have noticed that I need almost the same amount of wind/ power to take off as in normal windsurfing to get planning. I am 88 kg. Thinking of adding 2019 XL Naish wing to the setup (to take off at lower speed / less wind). Just wondering if anyone tried it?

I had 2 sessions with 1570 XL 2019 wing and 2020 fuse/ rear stab. It is the most stable set up I have, compared to the 1150 2020 wing it takes up with less speed and it keeps flying with very little wind. I weigh 77 kgs. and used a 6.6 and 5.7 sails. For learning the large wing is easier because will allow you to do everything more slowly, better use large wing and small sail for starting.

Old 1220 wing, I use about 1.7 meter smaller sail for windfoiling compared to windsurfing.
Easy to foil when it's almost impossible to waterstart.

I'm still learning, went from the WS1, to the surf wing and now the full 1150 set up. I found the WS1 hard to control when the wind picked up, but then I was getting up around 22 knots which is probably as fast as you should go on that setup.

I found the 1150 long fuse more stable and as easy to fly as the others. I'm 90kg, 5.0 sail, Hover 122. I reckon I need 13 knots to get it flying.

80 days in, I have never approached 16 knots on the original wing. Excess drag occurs right around then, for me anyways.
Still thinking of the 600 scam kitesurf wing.

What type of board, volume, width.

I am using an old slalom board and finding when using a small sail in marginal wind I need to pump to get going as the narrow tail sinks creating more drag and I have got less power to drive board up onto wing.
Once up on the foil the small sail has enough drive and as a begginer I am not sure I would want more m2 to deal with.
I tried a foil board once with the same size sail and it just popped up onto the wing effortlessly.

Thanks guys. My board is Hover 145. I started few months ago. I had only 2 or 3 sessions with sustained flights with 1150 wing. In all cases it was between 15 and 20 knots. I could not get it flying with less as I am poor at pumping. XL wing has 36% more area than 1150 based on simplified calc it should generate the same lift with approx 15% less speed. Do you think it is significant difference?
I have tried WS1 with 2020 setup but it was in small winds so I didn't feel improvement.
The XL wing looks thick is it draggy/difficult to get going to takeoff speed?

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powersloshin said..
I had 2 sessions with 1570 XL 2019 wing and 2020 fuse/ rear stab. It is the most stable set up I have, compared to the 1150 2020 wing it takes up with less speed and it keeps flying with very little wind. I weigh 77 kgs. and used a 6.6 and 5.7 sails. For learning the large wing is easier because will allow you to do everything more slowly, better use large wing and small sail for starting.

Thank you this is exactly what I am thinking of doing. I appreciate your feedback.

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Andrzej said..
Thanks guys. My board is Hover 145. I started few months ago. I had only 2 or 3 sessions with sustained flights with 1150 wing. In all cases it was between 15 and 20 knots. I could not get it flying with less as I am poor at pumping. XL wing has 36% more area than 1150 based on simplified calc it should generate the same lift with approx 15% less speed. Do you think it is significant difference?
I have tried WS1 with 2020 setup but it was in small winds so I didn't feel improvement.
The XL wing looks thick is it draggy/difficult to get going to takeoff speed?

I'd stick with what you have, your weight is about the same as mine and the board volume significantly bigger. I reckon you might have something set up not quite right. I have my foil mast in the middle, rear strap near the back, sail mast toward the back. If I used mine in 20 knots I would go so fast my brain would melt!

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remery said..

Andrzej said..
Thanks guys. My board is Hover 145. I started few months ago. I had only 2 or 3 sessions with sustained flights with 1150 wing. In all cases it was between 15 and 20 knots. I could not get it flying with less as I am poor at pumping. XL wing has 36% more area than 1150 based on simplified calc it should generate the same lift with approx 15% less speed. Do you think it is significant difference?
I have tried WS1 with 2020 setup but it was in small winds so I didn't feel improvement.
The XL wing looks thick is it draggy/difficult to get going to takeoff speed?

I'd stick with what you have, your weight is about the same as mine and the board volume significantly bigger. I reckon you might have something set up not quite right. I have my foil mast in the middle, rear strap near the back, sail mast toward the back. If I used mine in 20 knots I would go so fast my brain would melt!

I have foil mast fully forward as per marking in the board for heavy/beginner. Sail mast foot is either in the middle or towards the back . If it's windy enough to waterstart I can takeoff no problem but then I have to go with the sail open to as it is too much power. If it is less windy I can not get flying. I will keep working on the pumping when this whole lockdown is over and we are allowed to go out again

Hover 122, WS-1 1220 wing.
76 kg.
Foil mast 1" from very back.
Sail mast base forward of center.
Front straps full forward.
Rear strap one hole from forward.
Takes about 13 knots to get foiling with 5.0 sail. With 6.5 sail, maybe 11 knots.
5.0 for me tops out at 20 knots of wind, 6.5 from 15 - 20 depending which 6.5.
At 71, I'm getting too old for serious pumping and am rethinking the light wind option.

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LeeD said..
Hover 122, WS-1 1220 wing.
76 kg.
Foil mast 1" from very back.
Sail mast base forward of center.
Front straps full forward.
Rear strap one hole from forward.
Takes about 13 knots to get foiling with 5.0 sail. With 6.5 sail, maybe 11 knots.
5.0 for me tops out at 20 knots of wind, 6.5 from 15 - 20 depending which 6.5.
At 71, I'm getting too old for serious pumping and am rethinking the light wind option.

So for more lift I need to move mast foil towards the back?

I never said that.
I get too much lift when the wind nears 18 mph, which is nearly every day I go foiling.
I rig when it's 5-12 or so. Within 3 runs, the wind turns to gusts of 20, I'm on 5.0, I come in and switch to my freestyle board fully powered.
There have been a handful of days the wind stays at 5-12. Those, I'm pumping to get up in a puff and drop right down after the puff. Lots of work.

I have my foil mast in the middle lined up with the arrows. The sail mast toward the back. The rear footstrap is a fair way back so I can put my foot in front of I have to. For some reason I like to be in the straps. Once I get moving at maybe fast walking speed, I just push on the rear foot a couple of times it it come up no problem.

Here is everybody guessing about balance again. Don't guess. Measure. You have to get the front wing at the mid-point between front and back foot before you can do anything else. Slingshot says this, Sailworks says this, they all say this.

Here is a way to measure it:

I have my back straps removed. Perhaps I dont have enough pressure on the back foot.

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segler said..
Here is everybody guessing about balance again. Don't guess. Measure. You have to get the front wing at the mid-point between front and back foot before you can do anything else. Slingshot says this, Sailworks says this, they all say this.

Here is a way to measure it:

Thank you I am aware of this guideline I have checked my measurements already .

I can check where my rear footstrap is for you, I'm pretty sure it s at the back or second back holes.

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Andrzej said..
Hi there I am new to foiling. I have Naish 1150 foil. I have noticed that I need almost the same amount of wind/ power to take off as in normal windsurfing to get planning. I am 88 kg. Thinking of adding 2019 XL Naish wing to the setup (to take off at lower speed / less wind). Just wondering if anyone tried it?

I did not see anyone recommend working on the technique of pumping both the sail and the foil.

Anyway I am here to find out how to translate Naish Thrust foil sizes: M, L, XL, into sizes that other people use (looks like they use square mm plan) 1150?
Naish 1150 foil - I have a Large foil - is this that size?
Also Medium and XL

I found an overview on naishusa.com. XL wing was 1572sq cm. So sizes changed a bit to 2020.( naishusa.com/blogs/naish-foil-guide/2019-thrust-foil-guide)

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Peer78 said..
I found an overview on naishusa.com. XL wing was 1572sq cm. So sizes changed a bit to 2020.( naishusa.com/blogs/naish-foil-guide/2019-thrust-foil-guide)

Peer,
Thanks - that was what I needed.
I got these numbers from it on the four wings I own:

Medium = span 60.5cms
Area 1032 sq cms
85 = my weight KGs

I should sell the Medium wing; could add it the the mast and base I have for sale:
www.seabreeze.com.au/Classifieds/Foiling-Foil-Wings-Masts-etc/~l52eq/2018-Naish-Thrust-55-cm.aspx
[Can't spare a fuselage at the moment or I could make a set]

Happy to report that I had my first run with Naish XL wing yesterday. Works very well it is amazing how early it does take off and how stable it is. Thanks for the advice

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Andrzej said..
Happy to report that I had my first run with Naish XL wing yesterday. Works very well it is amazing how early it does take off and how stable it is.

At what wind speed does it take off? What sail size are you on?
I weigh ~85kg , my largest sail is 6.0 and I'm looking for a windfoil light wind kit For 8-16 knots

Those who can pump foil and sails got a big advantage. If you only rely on board speed to foil, this is almost similar speed of windsurfing and as soon as the board foil there is not a big margin of foiling comfortably and be overpower.
I guess this is different with race foil?

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lech_waldemar said..

Andrzej said..
Happy to report that I had my first run with Naish XL wing yesterday. Works very well it is amazing how early it does take off and how stable it is.

At what wind speed does it take off? What sail size are you on?
I weigh ~85kg , my largest sail is 6.0 and I'm looking for a windfoil light wind kit For 8-16 knots

Have a Slingshot i84, it's great for 8-16 knots. I have 7m sail and am 82kgs. The i99 would be even better for a 6m sail and 85 kg.

Andrezej, I have the 1220 cm2 1st gen Naish foil. It was OK. I upgraded to the 1570cm2 2019 foil and like you, found it far better for what I wanted. Wind speed to get flying is down around 11 knots. I have also tried a mates Slingshot i84, and think it's got a little better go in lighter winds and seems a little easier to control - slower to manouver. If you want to get your min wind speed lower for take off, start looking at foil specific sails. I love the Naish Lift, but there are lots of others out there with good low wind performance. Problem I think is that foil specific sails can tend to have a narrow wind range.

After close to 90 days on Naish 1220, I finally switched to Kitewing 600, less than half the area.
Same low end, still need 12 knots breeze with a 5.2, a pump or two more, in breeze too light to waterstart easily.
Haven't lost any low end, because I shed 2 lbs and a ton of drag.

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oscardog said..

lech_waldemar said..

Andrzej said..
Happy to report that I had my first run with Naish XL wing yesterday. Works very well it is amazing how early it does take off and how stable it is.

At what wind speed does it take off? What sail size are you on?
I weigh ~85kg , my largest sail is 6.0 and I'm looking for a windfoil light wind kit For 8-16 knots

Have a Slingshot i84, it's great for 8-16 knots. I have 7m sail and am 82kgs. The i99 would be even better for a 6m sail and 85 kg.

Actually in 16 knots I am planing on my 107l freeride ws board and 6.0 sail so what I am looking for is windfoil combo for a typical light summer breeze at the place where I live (southern Sweden) ~13 knots in average. After some research last night, Slingshot I84 is on the first place on the wishlist. I am not sure though, which board to chose. Slingshot Levitator looks to me too radical, too short. On the other hand there may be compatibility issues with other brands. JP Freefoil and Fanatic Stingray have both long sail mast tracks and foil tracks, different footstraps positions fore speed or freeride setup. What board do you have oscardog?

The board you choose should reflect rider characteristics.
If you're young, fit, active, and full of energy and aspirations, go tiny, like a 5'10" x 28" at volume of your weight plus 25 liters.
If you're old, feeble, lazy, weak and injured, choose the biggest Formula board you can find.
As for foils, a high aspect foil has much less drag than a low aspect delta wing. For early planing and foiling, it's still debatable which works more efficiently.

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lech_waldemar said..

oscardog said..

lech_waldemar said..

Andrzej said..
Happy to report that I had my first run with Naish XL wing yesterday. Works very well it is amazing how early it does take off and how stable it is.

At what wind speed does it take off? What sail size are you on?
I weigh ~85kg , my largest sail is 6.0 and I'm looking for a windfoil light wind kit For 8-16 knots

Have a Slingshot i84, it's great for 8-16 knots. I have 7m sail and am 82kgs. The i99 would be even better for a 6m sail and 85 kg.

Actually in 16 knots I am planing on my 107l freeride ws board and 6.0 sail so what I am looking for is windfoil combo for a typical light summer breeze at the place where I live (southern Sweden) ~13 knots in average. After some research last night, Slingshot I84 is on the first place on the wishlist. I am not sure though, which board to chose. Slingshot Levitator looks to me too radical, too short. On the other hand there may be compatibility issues with other brands. JP Freefoil and Fanatic Stingray have both long sail mast tracks and foil tracks, different footstraps positions fore speed or freeride setup. What board do you have oscardog?

lech_waldemar,

I have an Exocet RF91 board the AST version , I think it's great and have a blast foiling. However, its the only foil board I have so not able to compare with other boards. I think the board selection is less important than foil, as one is floating in the air and other working hard in the water.

If I had 13knots average "light" winds, might consider i76 instead of i84.
I have a slingshot gamma 68 as well. I would be on that if was confident of 13 knots. The i84 is much better in 8-10knots, but the smaller wings are much faster as the wind picks up. See Azymuths videos, he loves the i65, and regularly foils the i76.

When i bought the Slingshot foils, could get the Gamma and i84 plus fuselage and mast for same price as the i84 plus fuselage and mast. Maybe you can as well.

Happy foiling, post a video of foiling in Sweden.

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oscardog said..

lech_waldemar,

I have an Exocet RF91 board the AST version , I think it's great and have a blast foiling. However, its the only foil board I have so not able to compare with other boards. I think the board selection is less important than foil, as one is floating in the air and other working hard in the water.

If I had 13knots average "light" winds, might consider i76 instead of i84.
I have a slingshot gamma 68 as well. I would be on that if was confident of 13 knots. The i84 is much better in 8-10knots, but the smaller wings are much faster as the wind picks up. See Azymuths videos, he loves the i65, and regularly foils the i76.

When i bought the Slingshot foils, could get the Gamma and i84 plus fuselage and mast for same price as the i84 plus fuselage and mast. Maybe you can as well.

Happy foiling, post a video of foiling in Sweden.

thank you for your input oscardog,

today is one of those typical summer days, the breeze has not been strong enough to get me planing 100% of the time on my 6.0 sail and I dreamed away to next summer seeing myself croising on foil.
I have located a shop that has Slingshot foils 2 hour drive from my place and they have some foils for test.
Hopefully I'll have something to report soon.