First impression after trying the moses 799/450 combo on my custom 880 stringy fuse, GW 111 mast. Windfoiling on a 4.2 wave sail. Gusts to 25kts. 2-3ft waves, 1 degrees Celsius.

The way the 799 turns is a lot of fun, has good glide and speed on the waves and a carvy but secure feeling in the turns which allowed me to really bank the board over with tight turns. I was carving really hard and expecting some ventilation from the tips, never happened. Not sure if its because I'm used to the 90cm alu mast on these bigger wings but I would always hear and feel something happening on the old infinity 76 when banking over that hard.

The stall speed is amazing for a 1100cm2 wing. Pops out of the water easy and gets going I'd say as early as wings like the infinty 76/moses 790 and is much faster!

Probably needs a extra +0.5 deg shim to balance out the same as my 720. But was pretty good by just moving the uj back a couple cm.

It reached great upwind angles maybe even better then my other wing 720 Balz pro. Have to do more testing to see.

Merry Christmas

Physically, that looks similar in dimensions to a wing I'm using and that size is a ball of fun for the under 80kg crowd (probably for heavier, too, but I can't say) Like you said, surprising how they keep gliding even in low wind. Thanks for the report.

I was about to complain about how cold it is for me but at least the temps here have been in double digits.

The Moses 799 wing (1100 cm2) is remarkably similar to the AFS 1080 cm2 wing, both 800 mm wide and nearly the same surface areas and aspect ratios. I have been enjoying the F1080 especially in light winds, pumps great when in-flight. Have you tried pumping the Moses 799 wing in the air to keep going in light winds when the gust passes?, guessing it should, Merry Christmas!

The majority of advanced wing and windfoilers around Berkeley Ca are using 1100 sized front foils, weights from 67 kg thru 90 kg. All different brands.
All have other sizes, but 1100 seems used most often for winds of 10-21.

Select to expand quote

Sandman1221 said..
The Moses 799 wing (1100 cm2) is remarkably similar to the AFS 1080 cm2 wing, both 800 mm wide and nearly the same surface areas and aspect ratios. I have been enjoying the F1080 especially in light winds, pumps great when in-flight. Have you tried pumping the Moses 799 wing in the air to keep going in light winds when the gust passes?, guessing it should, Merry Christmas!

Haven't tryed pumping it much but felt more pumpable then my 720 or infinity 76, was kinda trying to see how slow it could go and expecting it to drop but it just keeps going with little input. I think it will be a nice wing for down wind 360s. Can definitely see why it's Balz Muller's wing of choice for windfoiling. Felt so nice riding waves on starboard tack carving heel side. Felt like a winger the way it can carve tight turns downwinding but your going windsurf speed

Select to expand quote

Paducah said..
Physically, that looks similar in dimensions to a wing I'm using and that size is a ball of fun for the under 80kg crowd (probably for heavier, too, but I can't say) Like you said, surprising how they keep gliding even in low wind. Thanks for the report.

I was about to complain about how cold it is for me but at least the temps here have been in double digits.

It was a bit chilly on the hands but luckily the east wind was pushing the warm water from the nuke plant into the bay so a few tacks upwind I could dunk the hands in for a minute then good for another 20-30 min, was on the water for over 2.5hrs. Gotta love nuclear power
Water feels 10-15C warmer by the plant and looks steamy like a hot tub.

Anyone else got nice sand beaches beside nuke plants?

Yes, I believe 1100 cm2 is the sweet spot for wing area for my weight of 95 kg.

When I was first learning with a AFS-2 and F700 (779 cm2) wing, it was a bit of a struggle. When I tried the F800 (1120 or 1080 cm2) wing the first time, it was voices from heaven. Extremely rangy and floaty and just plain nice. I foiled all over Lake Mojave on that wing with sails from 5.0 to 7.0.

Now I have been riding Moses. The 950 (1350 cm2) wing is really rangy and relaxing (those same voices), while the 720 (750 cm2) wing really requires attention and keeping the hammer down. I just got a 940 (1100 cm2), but have not been out on it yet. Winter here.

Most foilers don't care a lot about speed. I care a little bit. The 950 is not particularly fast, while the 720 is blazing fast if trimmed right. I expect the 940 to be pretty fast while still providing glide through lulls with a wide range of boat speeds. I need this because most of my foiling is in gorge gusty conditions.

It would be interesting to compare the 799 wing to the 940. Same area, different aspect ratios.

Comparison to 940 would be very interesting. My favorite frontwing is 950, was able to get a used 940 for more speed. 799 was not on my wish list. I prefer wings with more wing span (higher aspect).
Question, what stab would be nice for these 1100 area wings for windfoiling? 425 is ok? I only have the 450.
I weigh 78kg.

The 799 and 899 pump really well, as windfoil pumping goes



Any stabilizer should work. I prefer the 450 because it gives me the front foot pressure I want. However, if you currently ride your wings with the 425 you should be good. My impression is that the 799 and 899 are very lifty and many people tone that lift down by using a smaller stabilizer that does not lift so much.

PS: I never tried the 425 but suspect it lifts less than the 450. I tried the 399 and I would have needed the foil mast at least 3 inches further forward for it to work for my set up

Are these Mose wings compatible with SlingShot's new Phantasm fuselages?

Select to expand quote

OldGuy3 said..
Are these Mose wings compatible with SlingShot's new Phantasm fuselages?

Yes
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Foiling/Phantasm-730-compatibility-on-moses-fuse

I tone down the liftiness of the 950 and 720 wings with the 450 stab by shimming it to a LOWER down angle. I will probably do that same thing with the 940 wing when I get out on it. -3C here today. It will be a while.

I always shim to lower down angles because I prefer to control lift with my back foot. I don't like a lot of front foot pressure because it is far too hard to keep under control in the gusty gorge conditions I foil in.

When I bought the 940 wing, Sailworks said that the 450 stab is fine for all three wings. Just shim to suit. Yes, a smaller stab, such as the 425, will be faster. However, a shimmed lower down angle is also faster.

Select to expand quote

CAN17 said..
First impression after trying the moses 799/450 combo on my custom 880 stringy fuse, GW 111 mast.

Can you elaborate on the "custom 880 stringy fuze"? What is that? And, is a custom fuse necessary to use the 799/450 combo with the GW 111?

Select to expand quote

segler said..
I tone down the liftiness of the 950 and 720 wings with the 450 stab by shimming it to a LOWER down angle. I will probably do that same thing with the 940 wing when I get out on it. -3C here today. It will be a while.

I always shim to lower down angles because I prefer to control lift with my back foot. I don't like a lot of front foot pressure because it is far too hard to keep under control in the gusty gorge conditions I foil in.

When I bought the 940 wing, Sailworks said that the 450 stab is fine for all three wings. Just shim to suit. Yes, a smaller stab, such as the 425, will be faster. However, a shimmed lower down angle is also faster.

You know trimming for backfoot pressure goes against all advice everywhere.

Select to expand quote

lwalker said..

CAN17 said..
First impression after trying the moses 799/450 combo on my custom 880 stringy fuse, GW 111 mast.

Can you elaborate on the "custom 880 stringy fuze"? What is that? And, is a custom fuse necessary to use the 799/450 combo with the GW 111?

It's made by Jim in the gorge. finish is amazing and my mast never gets loose in the fuse now like it did in my moses fuse. He beefed it up a bit for more strength(im using 30mm bolts for mast). I got jim to put the mast plug 1.77" further back from the front wing compared to moses 900. Now 4" from where the wing arch starts to the front of the mast socket. About 7.2" from trailing edge of my 799 to leading edge of mast. This fuse gives me more front foot pressure, everything balances nicely now. Kinda suprising that some guys like to shim for more backfoot pressure to each his own I guess. Everyones setup/riding style is different, I am using wave sails 3-5.4m on a short board 5'10 long(wizard 105) and the mast track is very close to the nose and my straps/dance floor takes up most of the board, most people think I'm about to go winging until I rig up the sail

Select to expand quote

CAN17 said..

lwalker said..

CAN17 said..
First impression after trying the moses 799/450 combo on my custom 880 stringy fuse, GW 111 mast.

Can you elaborate on the "custom 880 stringy fuze"? What is that? And, is a custom fuse necessary to use the 799/450 combo with the GW 111?

It's made by Jim in the gorge. finish is amazing and my mast never gets loose in the fuse now like it did in my moses fuse. He beefed it up a bit for more strength(im using 30mm bolts for mast). I got jim to put the mast plug 1.77" further back from the front wing compared to moses 900. Now 4" from where the wing arch starts to the front of the mast socket. About 7.2" from trailing edge of my 799 to leading edge of mast. This fuse gives me more front foot pressure, everything balances nicely now. Kinda suprising that some guys like to shim for more backfoot pressure to each his own I guess. Everyones setup/riding style is different, I am using wave sails 3-5.4m on a short board 5'10 long(wizard 105) and the mast track is very close to the nose and my straps/dance floor takes up most of the board, most people think I'm about to go winging until I rig up the sail

I'm forever accursed with a 5 foot long board (Wizard 103 - and the deck is indeed like a dance floor). Hard to go to anything longer after this.

Faff wrote, "You know trimming for backfoot pressure goes against all advice everywhere."

Not exactly. No less than Bruce Peterson himself trims for backfoot pressure. When, like me, you get really tired of correcting for foilouts (breaches) in gusty conditions, you move the trim to the back foot so you can keep foiling rather than swimming. It is not a lot of back foot, just a little, enough to haul the foil up into flight at low speed. As the speed increases the front wing increases lift, and the balance moves forward. I like to have equal feet at higher speed.

No question that foilers who prefer front foot pressure are really good at this sport. I applaud them. When I tried front foot, as advised by everybody except BP, I always burned out my front leg and was always on the ragged edge of foilouts. Too many crashes at speed.

Do what works for you. Back foot works for me.

Select to expand quote

segler said..
Faff wrote, "You know trimming for backfoot pressure goes against all advice everywhere."

Not exactly. No less than Bruce Peterson himself trims for backfoot pressure. When, like me, you get really tired of correcting for foilouts (breaches) in gusty conditions, you move the trim to the back foot so you can keep foiling rather than swimming. It is not a lot of back foot, just a little, enough to haul the foil up into flight at low speed. As the speed increases the front wing increases lift, and the balance moves forward. I like to have equal feet at higher speed.

No question that foilers who prefer front foot pressure are really good at this sport. I applaud them. When I tried front foot, as advised by everybody except BP, I always burned out my front leg and was always on the ragged edge of foilouts. Too many crashes at speed.

Do what works for you. Back foot works for me.

What's your foiling gybe percentage?

I feel like we've been through this before quite extensively in other topics
Anyway back on track. Anyone else try the 799 yet?

Mine is 0% because I don't even try. I just come down and do a regular on-water jibe. 100% that way.

BP's jibe percentage is 100%, many times with one hand.

Select to expand quote

segler said..
Mine is 0% because I don't even try. I just come down and do a regular on-water jibe. 100% that way.

BP's jibe percentage is 100%, many times with one hand.

Then BP is the exception that proves the rule.

Select to expand quote

Faff said..

segler said..
I tone down the liftiness of the 950 and 720 wings with the 450 stab by shimming it to a LOWER down angle. I will probably do that same thing with the 940 wing when I get out on it. -3C here today. It will be a while.

I always shim to lower down angles because I prefer to control lift with my back foot. I don't like a lot of front foot pressure because it is far too hard to keep under control in the gusty gorge conditions I foil in.

When I bought the 940 wing, Sailworks said that the 450 stab is fine for all three wings. Just shim to suit. Yes, a smaller stab, such as the 425, will be faster. However, a shimmed lower down angle is also faster.

You know trimming for backfoot pressure goes against all advice everywhere.

Hi, I almost allways use a skim when its 18+ knots with my 799/399 setup, with its amazing lift it goes fast right up high, and its preferably to control that lift with skimming the backving with 0,5 or 1,5 skim for less lift. I love my SAB 799/399 setup - went from 790/450 to 799/399 and my impression is that the 799 is faster, glides better when jibing, all over more fun when youre past the jibe learning level. Best regards for Norway

Select to expand quote

OttoMot said..

Faff said..

segler said..
I tone down the liftiness of the 950 and 720 wings with the 450 stab by shimming it to a LOWER down angle. I will probably do that same thing with the 940 wing when I get out on it. -3C here today. It will be a while.

I always shim to lower down angles because I prefer to control lift with my back foot. I don't like a lot of front foot pressure because it is far too hard to keep under control in the gusty gorge conditions I foil in.

When I bought the 940 wing, Sailworks said that the 450 stab is fine for all three wings. Just shim to suit. Yes, a smaller stab, such as the 425, will be faster. However, a shimmed lower down angle is also faster.

You know trimming for backfoot pressure goes against all advice everywhere.

Hi, I almost allways use a skim when its 18+ knots with my 799/399 setup, with its amazing lift it goes fast right up high, and its preferably to control that lift with skimming the backving with 0,5 or 1,5 skim for less lift. I love my SAB 799/399 setup - went from 790/450 to 799/399 and my impression is that the 799 is faster, glides better when jibing, all over more fun when youre past the jibe learning level. Best regards for Norway

you using tuttle or track mast?

I use track with the converter, cant be bothered to start changing where the mast is though - maybee in the future. Using track for winging, then it goes all the way in front of the track. I experienced the skimming one of the first times on my new setup 799/399 in 20-30 knots conditions, I would go up at once and stay all the way up - not able to do nothing about it(my sail mast is then all the way in front), then i skimmed the wrong way and it still was awful , then when changing it the other way the - back wing pointing more upwards in the front - it became perfect. When i say perfect it meens that i dont feel any presure front or back foot, I was able to do turns and jibe again - it was a big difference - more than I would have imagined.

Select to expand quote

OttoMot said..
I use track with the converter, cant be bothered to start changing where the mast is though - maybee in the future. Using track for winging, then it goes all the way in front of the track. I experienced the skimming one of the first times on my new setup 799/399 in 20-30 knots conditions, I would go up at once and stay all the way up - not able to do nothing about it(my sail mast is then all the way in front), then i skimmed the wrong way and it still was awful , then when changing it the other way the - back wing pointing more upwards in the front - it became perfect. When i say perfect it meens that i dont feel any presure front or back foot, I was able to do turns and jibe again - it was a big difference - more than I would have imagined.

Foiling is a game of centimetres. When something is off you know it