Hi all,

What are considered ideal front-wing sizes for beginner wind foiling ?

I recently purchased a complete foil for windsurfing via Facebook. The seller listed it as Simmer Black Cruz, which comes with a 1100 cm2 front wing according to the Simmer website. However the size in the kit I received was 1600 cm2. The mast is 85 cm, and fuselage 75 cm.

Is that ok for wind foiling, or is it meant for wing foiling only?

I'm unfamiliar with their foils but the infinity 76, which many have learned on (including me), is similar foil area at 1534cm2. And I've used the monster 99 as a beginner which is more like 2200cm2.

The design is quite different though as it looks like the simmer is more mid aspect than low aspect like the infinity. With more area and more mid aspect you should be able to get going in lighter wind, and it will limit your top speed some (which can be good for a beginner). The 1100 in comparison will feel more slippery and fast.

Fuselage length I don't know, that's when you see a lot of wingfoil setups going with a shorter fuselage. It looks like they make a 65cm (shorter) for winging, and their cruz page says that the 75cm is for windfoiling simmerstyle.com/product/blackbird-cruz/I think there are a couple people here that have used simmer foils so they can probably shine more light on this.

Congrats dedekam! You are starting your windfoil journey!

We need some more info to really advise you well. What is your weight? Your local conditions? Your skill level as a fin windsurfer? What size board? Cambered or wave sails and what size. What are you trying to do? For instance, course race in the olympic style, ride ocean swell with the smallest sail or mow the lawn in flat water?

I'm 100 kg and ride wave/freestyle sails 5.2 or smaller in ocean swell. My biggest wing has a span over a meter and area of 2100 cm^2 and my smallest wing a span of 799 and an area of 1100cm^2. There are others here who think my small wing is too big. The point is there is a big range in optimum wing sizes that depend on your variables and objectives.

In general bigger wings are good for beginners. In your case I wouldn't be surprised if the bigger wing you were shipped is going to be just right for your beginning stages and then you can keep it for your light air wing. Let us know more so we help you better.

That wing size sounds ideal for learning and once you're adept you'll probably really like the 1100 which may be a rebadged SABfoil or Zeeko. I do think 75cm is pretty short for windfoiling and if you can source the 95cm version (or even the 85) I bet you'd have an easier time.

hers an earlier thread about it:www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Foiling/Simmer-Blackbird-Cruz-freeride-foil?page=1

Unless you're 100 kg+ and usually have light winds, the setup should be fine to get started. The 1100 would have been a bit small to get started, unless you are very light. The 75 cm fuselage will make it a bit harder to maintain stable flight height, but that's usually a problem for most beginners. You can definitely use the gear to get started, and later think about getting a longer fuse and/or smaller front wing.

The front foil size is fine. I learnt on a 1500 front foil. You may find the 75cm fuselage challenging. Wind foilers typically use a +90cm fuselage.

Thank you guys, lots of useful and interesting comments. Sounds like the 1600 front wing is just fine.
I am an 80 kg. intermediate windsurfer, sailing 95+ liters freeride and freewave boards.

Totally new to foiling, I bought it for light winds in order to get more time on water. I do have a foil ready board but plan to buy a dedicated foil board, second hand if possible but what size?

Also I don't even know what sail sizes I am likely to use, the wind range will be around around 8-14 knots.

foiling allows a wide range of sails, I would probably go with a sail a bit bigger to start and head up wind to control board height

I like this video for beginner wind foiler

I just checked and the fuselage is actually 95 cm.

Which is what I want judging by the replies in this thread. Thanks again, very enlightening!

~130 litres X 75 wide is a good size to start on (eg Alien 125 or 145, Stingray 125 or145, Wizard 130, Levitator, JP 135). Foil specific boards make a difference over foil ready windsurfing boards. The extra width and thickness in the tail and foil mast / foot strap / sail mast position geometry helps with learning stable flight and transitions. With your weight, a 130ltre and a 6m wave sail, you should get going in 10 to 12kts.

Select to expand quote

John340 said..
~130 litres X 75 wide is a good size to start on (eg Alien 125 or 145, Stingray 125 or145, Wizard 130, Levitator, JP 135). Foil specific boards make a difference over foil ready windsurfing boards. The extra width and thickness in the tail and foil mast / foot strap / sail mast position geometry helps with learning stable flight and transitions. With your weight, a 130ltre and a 6m wave sail, you should get going in 10 to 12kts.

Sounds good, my largest wave sail is 5.9.

I also started on a big (1700cm2) wing, and it worked well, so I figured i'd share:

So, I went from ~10 total hours ever of finning split over 3 years, straight into windfoiling because its cool! First (used) gear was a Slingshot Dialer 145 + SPG Albatross 250 (surf/pump specific ~90cm span, 1800cm2, very roll reactive) foil with a noddle 75cm mast + a piece of junk 7.5m sail from the 80's. It was terrible, and I was never able to keep it on foil for more than a few seconds.

After ~8 frustrating sessions, I bit the bullet and ordered an Axis PNG1300(1700cm2) + 90cm fuse + 90&68cm 19mm masts. My thought process was that a wider span foil meant more stability, and I wanted maximum stability. Also, I'm 100Kg, and there's a lot of light wind where I sail, so a 1700cm2 wing they advertised as a "absolute glider" sounded about right. It was a game changer! First time using it, I uphauled, popped on the foil, and kept it flying for half a mile, on the literal first try. Since then, I've sailed the PNG1300 in everything from 4-25kts, flatwater and chop. A big 1300 span pump wing is very non-optimal for wind >15 kts: With a windsurfing rig, it is very easy to push the wing wayyy faster than it's "cruising speed" of about 10kts, and you basically have to start trimming the board with the nose lower than the tail to keep it in the water, making things extremely twitchy. It also is like wrestling an alligator in choppy water because the wing is in different parts of the wave at the same time, causing the board to get thrown around unexpectedly.

But for all that, the big wing was amazing for maximizing my time-on-foil, and therefore great for progression. It's a bit like riding around on a big heavy beach cruiser, very easy and comfortable, compared to a fast twitchy road bike (race foil), or tiny maneuverable BMX bike (freestyle/jumping foil).