Hi all,
Is anyone having success using short mast lengths for shallow water locations? If so keen to hear about setup.
Thanks

Hi Mahi

Good question,

You can for sure use shorter mast for shallower conditions.
But the problem is that it is a lot harder to keep the foil in the water without breaching the surface.

How short mast are you thinking?

60-90cm is all ok, but any shorter, then it gets more difficult.

I use the SS 70 cm mast in shallow water, it is not too bad if you are jonesing for a foil session.

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Sail Repair WA said..
Hi Mahi

Good question,

You can for sure use shorter mast for shallower conditions.
But the problem is that it is a lot harder to keep the foil in the water without breaching the surface.

How short mast are you thinking?

60-90cm is all ok, but any shorter, then it gets more difficult.

Thanks guys for your thoughts.
Hoping to foil a local spot which is about waist deep in places
So maybe a 60-70cm mast is enough seabed clearance?
I havent tried a mast this short before..

I've sailed 45, 60, 70, and 90 cm masts. At low tide, I need the 45 cm, since there are lots of shallow areas at our local spot, with deep areas in between that make walking out far enough very hard. The 45 works ok when it's flat. To get upwind, I have to keep the board touching the water a lot. The 60 cm definitely is easier. Adding another 10 cm with the 70 cm mast makes a surprising difference again, especially when the chop gets higher than 30-40 cm.

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boardsurfr said..
I've sailed 45, 60, 70, and 90 cm masts. At low tide, I need the 45 cm, since there are lots of shallow areas at our local spot, with deep areas in between that make walking out far enough very hard. The 45 works ok when it's flat. To get upwind, I have to keep the board touching the water a lot. The 60 cm definitely is easier. Adding another 10 cm with the 70 cm mast makes a surprising difference again, especially when the chop gets higher than 30-40 cm.

45 is short!
Good to know that this is possible.
Im thinking purely a low tide option too.
May i ask what board width you are using?
Wondering if a narrower board might work better - given less leverage (avoid overpowering foil) plus less drag on the more frequent touchdowns.

Many thanks for the feedback.

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mahi said..
May i ask what board width you are using?
Wondering if a narrower board might work better - given less leverage (avoid overpowering foil) plus less drag on the more frequent touchdowns.

I'm using an older 71 cm wide 117 l slalom board, no straps. You could probably use a wider board, but you might have to stand more to the center, which may not be an option if you want to use straps.

The less drag in touchdowns is probably true. With the relatively long and narrow board, gentle touchdowns do not seem to affect speed much at all. I have foiled Wizards only a couple of times, so I don't really know how they react in touchdowns, but I can imagine that they'd slow down more.

Florida has mostly shallow water. I use 24", 30", and 35" masts there. My favorite is the 35", but I have to use it only in the deeper lakes or when the tide is high in specific deeper spots.

Don't bother with the 15" mast. You will outgrow it in ten minutes. If you want to start short, start with the 24".

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mahi said..

boardsurfr said..
I've sailed 45, 60, 70, and 90 cm masts. At low tide, I need the 45 cm, since there are lots of shallow areas at our local spot, with deep areas in between that make walking out far enough very hard. The 45 works ok when it's flat. To get upwind, I have to keep the board touching the water a lot. The 60 cm definitely is easier. Adding another 10 cm with the 70 cm mast makes a surprising difference again, especially when the chop gets higher than 30-40 cm.

45 is short!
Good to know that this is possible.
Im thinking purely a low tide option too.
May i ask what board width you are using?
Wondering if a narrower board might work better - given less leverage (avoid overpowering foil) plus less drag on the more frequent touchdowns.

Many thanks for the feedback.

45 would likely be a pain in the butt. You will either need to hone flying level or you will be foiling out frequently. When I went from a 90 to 75 temporarily it freaked me out. If you must, then you must - I get it.

Boardsrfr, I haven't sailed the W125 but foil a wider foil specific board. Drag at touchdown is a function of not only width but design and foil/mast rake. Properly trimmed rake means the board skips off its tail rather than hitting flat. Proper foil boards have fuller noses (mine has a pretty pronounced V) so even hard hits aren't spanks on the water. Beveled front rails mean you aren't as likely to trip over the rails either. You are correct generally but I just wanted to add for someone starting out that a wide foilboard will likely behave better on touchdowns than a converted "slapper" (conventional board).

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Paducah said.. You are correct generally but I just wanted to add for someone starting out that a wide foilboard will likely behave better on touchdowns than a converted "slapper" (conventional board).

That may well be correct, but it's not what I have seen. I've done a few windsurfing camps where a bunch of beginners foiled on both Wizards and conventional foil-ready boards (Fanatic Gecko or Blast?). The more spectacular crashes and breaches were on the foil boards. Not that the young and fearless minded . I did not care for the Wizard at all when I tried it in the first few sessions. The Flyer 280 was a different story - windsurfers who like longboards (I do) liked it, some others found it too unstable on the foil.

After a few more foiling sessions, I had another chance to try the Wizard, and that time around, I was surprised that the touchdowns were quite undramatic. I've now gotten to the point where I can control height reasonably well (even with a 45 cm mast if the chop is small enough), and I'm looking forward to try foil-specific boards like the Wizard again soon. It will be interesting to compare them it to the slappers I'm using. I'll hopefully get a few chances in September and October - maybe I'll even get to use the Slingshot freestyle board. I'd also love to try a setup with a race foil (or Starboard GT-R or similar) and a 95 cm wide foil board, but those are a rare sight where I foil.

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boardsurfr said..

Paducah said.. You are correct generally but I just wanted to add for someone starting out that a wide foilboard will likely behave better on touchdowns than a converted "slapper" (conventional board).

That may well be correct, but it's not what I have seen. I've done a few windsurfing camps where a bunch of beginners foiled on both Wizards and conventional foil-ready boards (Fanatic Gecko or Blast?). The more spectacular crashes and breaches were on the foil boards. Not that the young and fearless minded . I did not care for the Wizard at all when I tried it in the first few sessions. The Flyer 280 was a different story - windsurfers who like longboards (I do) liked it, some others found it too unstable on the foil.

After a few more foiling sessions, I had another chance to try the Wizard, and that time around, I was surprised that the touchdowns were quite undramatic. I've now gotten to the point where I can control height reasonably well (even with a 45 cm mast if the chop is small enough), and I'm looking forward to try foil-specific boards like the Wizard again soon. It will be interesting to compare them it to the slappers I'm using. I'll hopefully get a few chances in September and October - maybe I'll even get to use the Slingshot freestyle board. I'd also love to try a setup with a race foil (or Starboard GT-R or similar) and a 95 cm wide foil board, but those are a rare sight where I foil.

I was referring to not foil-ready but foil. My "foil ready" slalom board spanks a bit harder when coming down - it's a lot flatter under the front. Both boards from the same shaper.

Given your enjoyment of speed, you'd get a kick out of something like the GT-R. Anything 85-95 will be fine. A nice 10-15 day will suffice. The acceleration of a race type foil is a blast in light winds.

This video at 3:30 when he kicks into the back strap. That's a Loke foil/Exocet RF81 (carbon version) and wave sail.

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Paducah said..
Given your enjoyment of speed, you'd get a kick out of something like the GT-R. Anything 85-95 will be fine. A nice 10-15 day will suffice. The acceleration of a race type foil is a blast in light winds.

Nice video. I almost got the GT-R, but it would have reduced the days where I could possibly foil by more than half. Our home launch would be foilable only around high tide. In the summer, sailing elsewhere is anywhere between a PITA (for example due to traffic jams from tourists) and impossible (launch restrictions). The wind typically shows up for about 3-4 hours, so it would be a miss on many days.
Outside of summer, we spend 3 months at other spots where the water is very shallow. One of them (Cape Hatteras) is just deep enough for 60 cm masts, the other (Bird Island Basin in Texas) might be sailable with 90 cm, but you'd have to know exactly where the shallow spots are, which I don't. I've sailed there perhaps a hundred times, but usually with fins shorter than 30 cm (and still managed to ruin a fin when sailing 20 meters away from where it would have been deep enough).

I used to sail Bird Island with formula gear. With a 60cm fin, I was OK, but the 70cm fin always ticked the bottom. For foiling, I would not want to run a foil mast longer than about 45cm.

Thanks everyone for the info - very helpful