Am considering getting a bigger foil for light winds. Often get 5-9mph on local lake with the odd 12mph gust and can only get my Neil Pryde RD Flight AL Foil going in gusts above that, maybe 15-18 mph

Appreciate thoughts on which of
A) 2019 Starboard Foil Freeride Aluminium 1100 cm wing
B) Slingshot HG Custom Infinity 84 Foil
C) other
is best in light winds

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oscardog said..
Am considering getting a bigger foil for light winds. Often get 5-9mph on local lake with the odd 12mph gust and can only get my Neil Pryde RD Flight AL Foil going in gusts above that, maybe 15-18 mph

Appreciate thoughts on which of
A) 2019 Starboard Foil Freeride Aluminium 1100 cm wing
B) Slingshot HG Custom Infinity 84 Foil
C) other
is best in light winds

Perhaps the SS Infinity 99 should be on your list of things to consider? I had one out about 9 days ago, in 8-12mph breezes with an 8.0 Ezzy Cheetah. It seemed to fly pretty nicely, even though it was mounted on my Fanatic Falcon LW, which has a deep Tuttle box. The i99 was designed for use on the Levitator boards, but it went just fine on my Fanatic.

Read the NP Pinkie modifications thread, adapters transform the set up.

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oscardog said..
Am considering getting a bigger foil for light winds. Often get 5-9mph on local lake with the odd 12mph gust and can only get my Neil Pryde RD Flight AL Foil going in gusts above that, maybe 15-18 mph

Appreciate thoughts on which of
A) 2019 Starboard Foil Freeride Aluminium 1100 cm wing
B) Slingshot HG Custom Infinity 84 Foil
C) other
is best in light winds

How much do you weigh? What's your biggest sail? Are you oriented more towards racy or freeride - what kind of regular boards do you ride in light wind?

Hi Paducah

Weight is 86kg
Board is Exocet RF AST 91
Have a Maui Aloha 7.5 (no cambers) and a Gaastra Vapor 9.6 (4 cambers)
Happy to foil, don't need to race.

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oscardog said..
Hi Paducah

Weight is 86kg
Board is Exocet RF AST 91
Have a Maui Aloha 7.5 (no cambers) and a Gaastra Vapor 9.6 (4 cambers)
Happy to foil, don't need to race.

Thanks - helps us refine an answer for your style not ours. I"ll let the bigger folks chime in. I imagine you'll get more than a few suggestions for a 1500-1800 wing.

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BSN101 said..
Read the NP Pinkie modifications thread, adapters transform the set up.

Thanks BSN

Any comments on Starboard Super Cruiser 1700cm2?

Oscar, with your current sail and board setup, my recommendation would be the Starboard GTR or Race foil setup over the Starboard Supercruiser. You don't need to be a racer to use these foils. The SB Race foil is more powerful than the GTR and recommended if wanting to foil in the lightest of winds. Using the largest front wing 1000 is recommend for pushing the light winds. It is possible to get the SB Race foil and just buy the GTR fuselage which is 95cm and the larger rear wing and then you have both foils, by just adding 2 more sections to your foil setup. The Race and GTR foils ideally work best with the wider tail board and larger sails 6m -10m. These foil setups give a very smooth, stable foiling experience.... in a locked and loaded way where you can u lean out using the harness lines.

The SB Supercruiser feels quite different to SB Race and GTR, where you almost can get away without using harness lines as your body weight is over the board more. Your back foot on the SB Supercruiser wants to be closer to the center of the board, so if you have a wide tail board you will most likely be riding with the back foot out of the strap in most cases. The SB Supercruiser doesn't feel like it points quite as high as the SB Race or GTR (but still very good). The SB Supercruiser allow you to foil at a crawling pace and really engage in the turns making for a fun surfy feel. It is also possible to use the larger 2000 Ocean on the Supercruiser for even more lift.

Both foil setups are a lot of fun... I feel that ones riding style and gear will determine which Starboard foil to choose.

I own a SG 1100 front with and have foiled on the higher-lift slingshot wings.

Both are great systems! Both companies make interchangeable parts, and that's important as you progress.

1. Price: The SB is a bit more expensive. Some deals can be had towards the end of the year. The slingshot system seems to be a bit cheaper, and toward the end of the season, seem to be even cheaper as shops are trying to clear this year's inventory.

2. Quality: From my observations, SB wins this category. With lots of carbon fibre, the layup is well done. I've run my system into underwater obstacles so many times I can't count. But only scratches exist, and I buff them out over the winter. Slingshot needs to do better in this area. I witnessed 2 Slingshot front wing snap at the bolt holes splitting parts of it in half. Last weekend, I saw two infinity wing delaminate at the leading edge! These were brand new and were not abused by any means.

3. Lift: The bigger wings will give you lots of lift. period. The slingshot infinities (76 and 84) will get you up earlier and with less sail power. But you'll be compromising speed. The SB 1100 wing setup in the 'free-ride' scenario requires a bit more speed or more sail to get into a flight. mostly due to the front wing size. To compare to the infinity's, you'd need to look at the SB super cruiser. During a session with another foiler that had the i76, I flew about the same time he did in the same wind using a bigger sail. we are about the same weight.

4. Speed: The 1100 will win this category hands down. These are high aspect foil wings and topping out at 20+kn has been a lot more fun than going slower with the larger infinitys

5. Maneuverability & gybing: The larger wings win this one. Gybing the 1100 takes a lot more speed and control. Because these are much faster, gybing becomes a little harder due to the fact you can be going faster than the wind is blowing on the downwind part. You sometimes have to push the sail around. The slower and higher lift foils allow for faster sail flips, and since you don't have as much sail to work with, less mass to flip it around.

6. Importance of options: Both companies offer interchangeable parts. In my opinion, this will start to eliminate the smaller, one-off foil sets you see for sale. I started with the GT foil set from SB. I quickly realized what affected what during a flight. I ended up adding the 115 fuse, 1100 front wing, 255 rear stab and the 110cm mast. I now have two complete foil sets. But the one I use 99% of the time now is my hybrid setup: 110cm mast, 115 fuse, 1100 front wing and the 255 stab. This, in my opinion, is the lightest wind setup you can create with SB set and still get fast with long reaches going. If the wind changes, I put on the 800 front wing for faster speeds. If I want more maneuverability, I switch to the GT setup. I AM planning on getting the super cruiser setup for goofing around with lower speeds and less sail. Slingshot (this year) finally figured out that the taller masts and longer fuses seemed to be what people were moving towards. Their systems seems a bit more stable this year, although the quality is still lacking.

7. Availability: Both systems seem to be what most shops have. however, the Slingshot system is producing more and are readily available. The SB system takes a long time to get an order fulfilled. I may have been on the forefront of getting the latest stuff, but it took 5 months to get the 1100 wing... but I think it was brand new at the time.

Summary: Stick with SB or Slingshot. don't go with 'other' many of my foiling friends are frustrated at their foil sets as they couldn't or can't buy optional parts. I love my SB system, and plan to get more parts (Supercruiser) so I can use the same masts I already own. The quality is awesome. However with the slingshot system, you can probably find a great deal out there. Too bad their quality is suffering, but this should be corrected now as they deal with warranties and R&D gets better.

So, if you want cheaper slow and stable foiling, stick with the Slingshot system. If you want most of the speed, modularity and higher quality, go with SB. But that said, I'd look at pairing the 1100 with the setup I have (pick your mast height) (essentially the Race Pro w/ the 1100 front wing).

good luck!

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IndecentExposur said..


So, if you want cheaper slow and stable foiling, stick with the Slingshot system. If you want most of the speed, modularity and higher quality, go with SB. But that said, I'd look at pairing the 1100 with the setup I have (pick your mast height) (essentially the Race Pro w/ the 1100 front wing).

good luck!

The Starboard Supercruiser allows for very slow and stable foiling. The supercruiser comes with the 1700 front wing, however the larger 2000 front wing can be used and I hear there is an even larger front wing in the works.

Thanks IWB and indecent,

I went with the slingshot, got a package of Slingshot Hover Glide Fwind1 Foil set and Infinity 84cm wing. Look forward to trying them out.

These SS wings seem interchangeable whereas the SB Supercruiser is not interchangeable with the other Starboard wings, looks like it is designed as for SUP.

Appreciate all the feedback

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IndecentExposur said..So, if you want cheaper slow and stable foiling, stick with the Slingshot system. If you want most of the speed, modularity and higher quality, go with SB.

Good write-up, thanks.


Slingshot does offer "cheaper slow and stable foiling" which is why it's a perfect beginner foil - last weekend I saw a newbie up foiling in ocean chop 5 secs into his first run - Infinity 76 on a 100L board.

AND...the same SS Infinity wings are unsurpassed for riding and gybing in big chop, swells and waves - nobody I know riding Slingshot in the ocean is complaining that they're too slow, especially when carving downwind or flying back upwind over 2m wind-swells

In 2 years at our most popular foiling wave beach I've seen only Slingshot foils about 90% of the time - I've yet to see a Starboard foil.

Learn with an Infinity 76 and 2 years later rip in the ocean or lake in big chop - on the same wing

I've had a good experience on the Exocet RF91 with Naish WS1 foil. That board is quite happy with the more freeride-oriented foils as there are lots of different footstrap positions, compared to other 91cm race boards with straps right on the rails. Enjoy your new foils!

Some questions for the guys experienced with the SB setup. I am borrowing a friend's SB "Team Kit". It includes 550 and 800 front wings, two stabs 330 and 255, 95 mast, and 75 and 115 fuses. I have already bought his used Falcon Foil 2019 edition. Currently, I'm riding all SS stuff - Levitator with 76 and 84 wings. Love it but I've established that for me, the Ezzy Hydra 8.5 feel a bit large for this setup. That might be related to current skills but the difference between the 7.0 and 8.5 is significant in terms of weight and ease of handling. My goal is to augment my light air capabilities, esp with respect to performance (speed and angles). Eventually, I want to try some course racing but that is not my focus.

It seems to me from these posts that I would be better off with the 1100 for light air (I'm 90 kg) but I'm wondering what the difference is between the 1100 and the 1000, which I take it is a more race-oriented wing. It this a simple matter of the 1100 being a bit easier to ride, maybe a little better in light air take-off, but just less performance potential?

Thanks for any input!

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Fast505 said..

It seems to me from these posts that I would be better off with the 1100 for light air (I'm 90 kg) but I'm wondering what the difference is between the 1100 and the 1000, which I take it is a more race-oriented wing. It this a simple matter of the 1100 being a bit easier to ride, maybe a little better in light air take-off, but just less performance potential?

Thanks for any input!

Hi Fast505,

I have been doing a lot of experimenting with "Regular Foiling Gear" (Exocet RF91, SS Flyer280, SS foils: i76,i84,i99, SB Race Foil M1000) and also "Converts" like SB Go 180L & SB Formula 167L) over last two years and posting a lot on "NW Windtalk". Some also on Seabreeze here.
My Goal is Max Speed & Max Mileage in Light Winds (5mph-20mphG25mph) for "Heavy Dude" (in speedos 205LB/ 93kg, when in gear at 225LB/102kg) with one sail.

I have recently bought SB FR1100 and also posted the comparison after the first session FR1100 vs M1000, some of my thoughts, analysis, graphs and also one of our local Champs in Winduro Racing: Jonathan R Analysis:
Here is the topic and the link:
"Starboard M1000 (Millennium Race) wing vs FR1100 (Free Ride) wing"
groups.io/g/nw-windtalk/topic/starboard_m1000_millennium/81678026
Here is also the picture:



In a nutshell the answer is:
It depends what are Your Goals and Each Goal Priority is?
1) M1000 is a bit faster based on my testing so far,
2) If you want smoother transitions slogging to plaining to pure foiling at the cost of some speed - F1100 might be your better choice
3) stalling (smoother transition down to planing down to slogging) - F1100 might be your better choice
4) Is more your style UP / Down Wind - M1000 will win
5) if BAF (beam reach back and forth) - you may not notice much difference in speeds (at low wind end as per testing so far) unless you analyze my GPS graphs in high resolution.

Details at the link provided above on "NW Windtalk".

1. Buy slingshot i76
2. Do lots of foiling
3. When you are ready for a new challenge buy slingshot i65
4. Do lots of foiling
5. Go back to i76 and realise what an amazing wing it is
6. Do lots of foiling
7. Try i65 again and realise what an amazing wing it is
8. Repeat item 4-7 and realise that you are the only thing holding yourself back, not the gear

As a foiler who started with ss and after two years jumped to sb gt then race... I feel like I have lost 2 years foiling time because I had to buy high aspect foil at very beginning...
That is not because ss is bad but it doesn't suit to my riding expectations.. I use big slalom(big) sails, relatively flat water (lake) conditions and the main goal was going with really light winds.. Now maybe even racing.. So if you have 8.6 sail or bigger and trying to foil on i76 or any other ss wing It won't simply work.. But try high aspect foils like starboard gt or race.. Omg what a difference! So as it is stated above by many others.. Important to ask.. what are your expectations, what is your gear and where are you be sailing...

I think for stable long light wind sessions sb is much better than ss if you are not gonna be foiling in waves and you wanna use small sails like <6m..

Select to expand quote

AwindSurfer said..
As a foiler who started with ss and after two years jumped to sb gt then race... I feel like I have lost 2 years foiling time because I had to buy high aspect foil at very beginning...
That is not because ss is bad but it doesn't suit to my riding expectations.. I use big slalom(big) sails, relatively flat water (lake) conditions and the main goal was going with really light winds.. Now maybe even racing.. So if you have 8.6 sail or bigger and trying to foil on i76 or any other ss wing It won't simply work.. But try high aspect foils like starboard gt or race.. Omg what a difference! So as it is stated above by many others.. Important to ask.. what are your expectations, what is your gear and where are you be sailing...

I think for stable long light wind sessions sb is much better than ss if you are not gonna be foiling in waves and you wanna use small sails like <6m..

You mean that you didn't buy HA in the beginning. SS are low aspect. I think that it also depends on the rider and weight. The Levitator paired with a 84 or 99 wing is great for many beginners. Tell me what setup in the SB range would suit a 245lb beginner? I agree that it would be nice if SS offered HA wings, but I thought that they will in the future with the new fuse.

Select to expand quote

AB_Carve said..
1. Buy slingshot i76
2. Do lots of foiling
3. When you are ready for a new challenge buy slingshot i65
4. Do lots of foiling
5. Go back to i76 and realise what an amazing wing it is
6. Do lots of foiling
7. Try i65 again and realise what an amazing wing it is
8. Repeat item 4-7 and realise that you are the only thing holding yourself back, not the gear

One of the best foil wing posts that I have read you hit the nail on the head its generally the riders ability not the gear!

I went i76 to i84 and you couldn't talk me out of the i84...then went back to i76 (when I could get it dialed in better on the Wizard130) and now the i76 is my go to wing in pretty much everything

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ZeroVix said..

AwindSurfer said..
As a foiler who started with ss and after two years jumped to sb gt then race... I feel like I have lost 2 years foiling time because I had to buy high aspect foil at very beginning...
That is not because ss is bad but it doesn't suit to my riding expectations.. I use big slalom(big) sails, relatively flat water (lake) conditions and the main goal was going with really light winds.. Now maybe even racing.. So if you have 8.6 sail or bigger and trying to foil on i76 or any other ss wing It won't simply work.. But try high aspect foils like starboard gt or race.. Omg what a difference! So as it is stated above by many others.. Important to ask.. what are your expectations, what is your gear and where are you be sailing...

I think for stable long light wind sessions sb is much better than ss if you are not gonna be foiling in waves and you wanna use small sails like <6m..

You mean that you didn't buy HA in the beginning. SS are low aspect. I think that it also depends on the rider and weight. The Levitator paired with a 84 or 99 wing is great for many beginners. Tell me what setup in the SB range would suit a 245lb beginner? I agree that it would be nice if SS offered HA wings, but I thought that they will in the future with the new fuse.

I agree with Awindsurfer, as I have stated many times before. If you're solely gonna go <6m, get a big low aspect foil and you'll be happy if you plan to use a big heavy 8+m cammed sail get a race or freerace foil, the big sail will offbalance the foil, especially in the turns. Big sails also dont like being sailed with the backfoot near the center of the board, but getting the feet out towards the rail will also offbalance the big LA foils.

To answer your question, A 245lbs beginner can fly in below 10 knots with a starboard race 1000, and probably fly through the jibes earlier than if he'd opt for the SS i99 combined with a 9m cammed sail due to the balance issue described above.

I dig the big wings, I have been wingfoiling a lot recently, also at sea / in waves, and the 1500 ish wings (combined with a short fuselage and small 275 stab for me) really make the dream work for surfing down waves & doing manouvre oriented sailing, however, for a heavyweight using a big sail I'm not at all convinced its the best option. I'm also not convinced a HUGE wing offers much in terms of performance over a BIG wing, I've found its often too slow to effectively pump on a swell, 1300-1600 feels like the sweetspot to me. (Fyi, I'm 93kg - 205LBS naked)

AFS 85 cm foil with F1080 wing, I have the older Wind95 with that wing, gets me up in 8-10 knots, even 8-9 knots, I weigh 90 kg/190 lb, now that is on a Goya Bolt 135 which is good because you can get a glide going through the chop ( little or no pumping of sail, 8.0 Aerotech Freespeed). But on the Bolt I do step forward of the front foot strap to keep the board level until I can take off, then step back into foot strap as I just start to lift off.

Select to expand quote

WhiteofHeart said..

ZeroVix said..

AwindSurfer said..
As a foiler who started with ss and after two years jumped to sb gt then race... I feel like I have lost 2 years foiling time because I had to buy high aspect foil at very beginning...
That is not because ss is bad but it doesn't suit to my riding expectations.. I use big slalom(big) sails, relatively flat water (lake) conditions and the main goal was going with really light winds.. Now maybe even racing.. So if you have 8.6 sail or bigger and trying to foil on i76 or any other ss wing It won't simply work.. But try high aspect foils like starboard gt or race.. Omg what a difference! So as it is stated above by many others.. Important to ask.. what are your expectations, what is your gear and where are you be sailing...

I think for stable long light wind sessions sb is much better than ss if you are not gonna be foiling in waves and you wanna use small sails like <6m..

You mean that you didn't buy HA in the beginning. SS are low aspect. I think that it also depends on the rider and weight. The Levitator paired with a 84 or 99 wing is great for many beginners. Tell me what setup in the SB range would suit a 245lb beginner? I agree that it would be nice if SS offered HA wings, but I thought that they will in the future with the new fuse.

I agree with Awindsurfer, as I have stated many times before. If you're solely gonna go <6m, get a big low aspect foil and you'll be happy if you plan to use a big heavy 8+m cammed sail get a race or freerace foil, the big sail will offbalance the foil, especially in the turns. Big sails also dont like being sailed with the backfoot near the center of the board, but getting the feet out towards the rail will also offbalance the big LA foils.

To answer your question, A 245lbs beginner can fly in below 10 knots with a starboard race 1000, and probably fly through the jibes earlier than if he'd opt for the SS i99 combined with a 9m cammed sail due to the balance issue described above.

I dig the big wings, I have been wingfoiling a lot recently, also at sea / in waves, and the 1500 ish wings (combined with a short fuselage and small 275 stab for me) really make the dream work for surfing down waves & doing manouvre oriented sailing, however, for a heavyweight using a big sail I'm not at all convinced its the best option. I'm also not convinced a HUGE wing offers much in terms of performance over a BIG wing, I've found its often too slow to effectively pump on a swell, 1300-1600 feels like the sweetspot to me. (Fyi, I'm 93kg - 205LBS naked)

Another agreement with Awindsurfer. It's so important to understand your style and match that even if the road seems a bit more difficult at first. If your primal urge is to keep up or pass your buddies, respect that. I get that the i76 is a fast wing but the SB race series like most race gear is on a different level. That doesn't make the i76 bad, just different. If, instead, you dream of ocean swell, respect that.

Zerovix, SB make more than just the race series. Their surf series has plenty of big wings. Their S-type Supercruiser goes as big as 2400 which is the same as the i99. I don't sail SB, just an outside observer.
starboardfoils.com/pages/2021-supercruiser

Scaling down my weight from WhiteofHeart, I can play on 1100 just fine and why I'm wary that some people recommend really big wings for small foilers.

Select to expand quote

WhiteofHeart said..

ZeroVix said..

AwindSurfer said..
As a foiler who started with ss and after two years jumped to sb gt then race... I feel like I have lost 2 years foiling time because I had to buy high aspect foil at very beginning...
That is not because ss is bad but it doesn't suit to my riding expectations.. I use big slalom(big) sails, relatively flat water (lake) conditions and the main goal was going with really light winds.. Now maybe even racing.. So if you have 8.6 sail or bigger and trying to foil on i76 or any other ss wing It won't simply work.. But try high aspect foils like starboard gt or race.. Omg what a difference! So as it is stated above by many others.. Important to ask.. what are your expectations, what is your gear and where are you be sailing...

I think for stable long light wind sessions sb is much better than ss if you are not gonna be foiling in waves and you wanna use small sails like <6m..

You mean that you didn't buy HA in the beginning. SS are low aspect. I think that it also depends on the rider and weight. The Levitator paired with a 84 or 99 wing is great for many beginners. Tell me what setup in the SB range would suit a 245lb beginner? I agree that it would be nice if SS offered HA wings, but I thought that they will in the future with the new fuse.

I agree with Awindsurfer, as I have stated many times before. If you're solely gonna go <6m, get a big low aspect foil and you'll be happy if you plan to use a big heavy 8+m cammed sail get a race or freerace foil, the big sail will offbalance the foil, especially in the turns. Big sails also dont like being sailed with the backfoot near the center of the board, but getting the feet out towards the rail will also offbalance the big LA foils.

To answer your question, A 245lbs beginner can fly in below 10 knots with a starboard race 1000, and probably fly through the jibes earlier than if he'd opt for the SS i99 combined with a 9m cammed sail due to the balance issue described above.

I dig the big wings, I have been wingfoiling a lot recently, also at sea / in waves, and the 1500 ish wings (combined with a short fuselage and small 275 stab for me) really make the dream work for surfing down waves & doing manouvre oriented sailing, however, for a heavyweight using a big sail I'm not at all convinced its the best option. I'm also not convinced a HUGE wing offers much in terms of performance over a BIG wing, I've found its often too slow to effectively pump on a swell, 1300-1600 feels like the sweetspot to me. (Fyi, I'm 93kg - 205LBS naked)

But AFAIR, you use a smallish high aspect foil with small sails yourself? What about big *high* aspect foils like a Moses W950 (1600 cm2)?

Select to expand quote

AwindSurfer said..
As a foiler who started with ss and after two years jumped to sb gt then race... I feel like I have lost 2 years foiling time because I had to buy high aspect foil at very beginning...
That is not because ss is bad but it doesn't suit to my riding expectations.. I use big slalom(big) sails, relatively flat water (lake) conditions and the main goal was going with really light winds.. Now maybe even racing.. So if you have 8.6 sail or bigger and trying to foil on i76 or any other ss wing It won't simply work.. But try high aspect foils like starboard gt or race.. Omg what a difference! So as it is stated above by many others.. Important to ask.. what are your expectations, what is your gear and where are you be sailing...

I think for stable long light wind sessions sb is much better than ss if you are not gonna be foiling in waves and you wanna use small sails like <6m..

I am in the same camp as AwindSurfer,
I wasted almost two years on Slingshot Infinity Shovels: i76, i84, i99 (Exocet RF91 & SS Flyer280) while our two local Winduro Champs (Darius & Jonathan) on SB M1000/115+/255 were doing twice the mileage in the same wind as I did (so 100% more than me). We all have GPS watches so we did compare after the sessions. I am much heavier in gear at 225LB than them (162LB & 170LB) but I was still using ~2-3m larger sails than them. After me buying SB M1000/115++/255(-2), we compared again and now Darius does about 50% more mileage than me in the same wind. He has almost 4 years of foiling and just only in last year he did 3000 miles on Lake Washington so most likely almost 10k miles windfoiling in last 4 years.
Now it all goes down to ratios & multiplier factors which I discussed in my Article on NW Windtalk:
Ratios, Multipliers & Science - More Analysis for Geeks - Re: Monday 12/28/20 - light N wind & Sun patrol
groups.io/g/nw-windtalk/topic/79300663

Former Slingshot Infinity Wings and Speed should be considered as Oxymoron.
I recommend you a study from Windfoil Zone:
"Market Shares and Trends in the Windsurf Foiling Industry - WindFoil Zone"
windfoilzone.com/market-shares-and-trends-in-the-windsurf-foiling-industry/

If you check Race Category (Speed Focus) the Slingshot even does not make it to the list !
Keep in mind that even "Ghost Whisperer" was Made by Moses for Slingshot and that one was never promoted by Slingshot for obvious reasons.

To all those "Slingshot Worshipers" I have a bad news. Even "Slingshot Brand" does no longer want to be associated with Infinity Wings and they are discontinued there, while moved to another subsidiary: "Ride Engine" with Manta names under "7 Nation" Parent Company (by Logosz Brothers).
I wrote about it in the past on NW Windtalk on February 11th 2021:
groups.io/g/nw-windtalk/message/71277
Quote:
"Have you been wondering why you no longer can buy Slingshot Infinity Wings in their orange edge coating (unless you find the old stock) but the same wings are available under "Ride Engine" Brand and wings are call Manta and have blue edging ?
Yes, from what I understand the Parent Company 7 Nation decided to move "legacy wings" from Slingshot Subsidiary/Brand into Ride Engine Subsidiary/Brand while Slingshot focuses on further innovation."

To all those "Slingshot Worshipers" If you want to still promote discontinued product you love. Maybe you should start becoming a "Ride E ngine Worshiper" and start calling those wings m76, m84, m99 going forward.

Don't shoot the messenger, tell your feeling to "7 Nation " / Logosz Brothers - Parent Company Owners /CEOs/Chef Architects etc.

I am still using some Slingshot Products like Slingshot Flyer 280 for my e-foil convert system with Slingshot Shovels but my usage becomes less and less.
That is also what is happening around Seattle & Hood River, more and more people now go with Moses Foils over former Slingshot Infinity Foils. Even Hood River Sailworks is now promoting Moses Foils - jab just in the heart of former Slingshot Domination.

Do you want to have "Visual Expression / Comparison" what the difference is between Slingshot Foils and Starboard Race Foils not only in Variable Winds (Winduro Races) but also in Light Winds ?
Just watch Darius video where he is on SB Race Foil while everybody around (mostly on Slingshot foils with the exception of Jonathan) including myself at the end foiling on Slingshot Flyer280 with i84 in the old days (half of Darius mileage).



Do you want to do what Darius does (or at least get close to) or do you want to be any of those Slingshot Foil users in that video Darius says: "Bye, Bye !" and waves his hand to?

Choice is completely Yours !

As a recreational foiler, I would like to say, SS infinity was excellent for learning, particularly i84 and i99, helped me tremendously getting my balance on those foils. I am still not convinced going for a race foil set up since I would prefer to use as small sail possible in lighter wind (12 mph; at 220 lbs pound) despite I know that I will go slower and race foilers will wave at me. Most of the regular WSs are going faster than me anyway but I I like the feeling of levitation and enjoying less physical challenge at my age of over 60. I now sold all of my big sails (>8.2) and I am usually using 7.0 Flyer or 6.3 Goya Fringe. After getting fairly comfortable with foiling with SS foils, I decided to move to Armstrong foils (HS1850, CF2400). These foils perform similar to SS but set-up is easier, carbon foil is 50% lighter and there is no screw corrosion problems. However, I did not feel any significant improvements in performance compared to SS foils. I would still recommend SS (or Ride Engine) anyone beginning to foiling due to cheaper price or Armstrong if cost is not an issue. I love to ride faster but I do not like to use large sails as I see that is required for my body on light wind conditions for race foils from Starboard that are also significantly heavier than Armstrong foil.
I am curious if anyone could share their experience or provide data for comparison of medium to low aspect foils for speed performance among some of the commonly used brands.

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mareks360 said.. Former Slingshot Infinity Wings and Speed should be considered as Oxymoron.If you check Race Category (Speed Focus) the Slingshot even does not make it to the list !

Keep in mind that even "Ghost Whisperer" was Made by Moses for Slingshot and that one was never promoted by Slingshot for obvious reasons.
To all those "Slingshot Worshipers" I have a bad news. Even "Slingshot Brand" does no longer want to be associated with Infinity Wings and they are discontinued there, while moved to another subsidiary: "Ride Engine" with Manta names under "7 Nation" Parent Company (by Logosz Brothers).
I wrote about it in the past on NW Windtalk on February 11th 2021:
groups.io/g/nw-windtalk/message/71277
Quote:
"Have you been wondering why you no longer can buy Slingshot Infinity Wings in their orange edge coating (unless you find the old stock) but the same wings are available under "Ride Engine" Brand and wings are call Manta and have blue edging ?
Yes, from what I understand the Parent Company 7 Nation decided to move "legacy wings" from Slingshot Subsidiary/Brand into Ride Engine Subsidiary/Brand while Slingshot focuses on further innovation."

To all those "Slingshot Worshipers" If you want to still promote discontinued product you love. Maybe you should start becoming a "Ride E ngine Worshiper" and start calling those wings m76, m84, m99 going forward.

Don't shoot the messenger, tell your feeling to "7 Nation " / Logosz Brothers - Parent Company Owners /CEOs/Chef Architects etc.

I am still using some Slingshot Products like Slingshot Flyer 280 for my e-foil convert system with Slingshot Shovels but my usage becomes less and less.
That is also what is happening around Seattle & Hood River, more and more people now go with Moses Foils over former Slingshot Infinity Foils. Even Hood River Sailworks is now promoting Moses Foils - jab just in the heart of former Slingshot Domination.

Do you want to have "Visual Expression / Comparison" what the difference is between Slingshot Foils and Starboard Race Foils not only in Variable Winds (Winduro Races) but also in Light Winds ?
Just watch Darius video where he is on SB Race Foil while everybody around (mostly on Slingshot foils with the exception of Jonathan) including myself at the end foiling on Slingshot Flyer280 with i84 in the old days (half of Darius mileage).

Do you want to do what Darius does (or at least get close to) or do you want to be any of those Slingshot Foil users in that video Darius says: "Bye, Bye !" and waves his hand to?

Choice is completely Yours !

Quite an entertaining rant

We all know that Infinity wings are optimized for carving and transitions and are obviously not race wings - although they're actually comparatively fast in big conditions on the ocean.
Did 23.8 knots downwind on an Infinity 76 on the ocean - 25 knot winds, 2m windswells (5m wavesail).
Happy for someone to post a video going faster and carving hard with a shiny high-aspect foil in similar conditions.

Slingshot must be doing something right - super-stoked that we now have 31 foilers in our Slingshot Frothers Cottesloe group

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azymuth said..

We all know that Infinity wings are optimized for carving and transitions and are obviously not race wings - although they're actually comparatively fast in big conditions on the ocean.
Done 23.8 knots on my Infinity 76 in 20-25 knots winds and 2m windswells (with a 5m wavesail). Happy for someone to post a video going faster and carving harder with a shiny high-aspect foil in those conditions.

Azymuth,

If I were to live in place lie Hood River/ Columbia Gorge (between Oregon & Washington) or back in Sydney or in New Zealand (e.g. Wellington), I would be perfectly happy riding alone or with other Slingshot foil owners - in steady stronger wind conditions with smaller sails.
When you live in Convergence Zone Area, every little bit of efficiency matters. Every little bit of more speed matters because you do not have enough strong steady wind to ride on. You are hungry for speed and mileage.

There is nothing wrong with enjoying former Slingshot Infinity Foils (now Ride Engine Mantas), BUT I Myself lost opportunity to do 50% more mileage that I was always so hungry for living at Lake Washington Seattle area. As of today I am at 479 miles since January 1st 2021 and Spring has just begun and I am clearly at my target to reach 2000 miles on Lake Washington in one year.

BTW If you want to compare what Starboard Race foils are capable in "the right hands", I recommend you watch Sebastian Kordel video when he talks about his personal best at 33 knots and what exactly setup he is using, obviously Starboard Race Foils :
Entire video:


he talks about 33 knots personal best at 3m30s:
?t=210

Again, my feedback was targeted in particular for people for whom Speed and Mileage is important and people who live in challenging wind conditions.

Also some "Reality check" for what is going on in Foil Industry, a "Bigger Picture" that many people may not be necessary aware of.

Hi Mareks 360

We are all 'hanging on the edge' to know more insider info and 'reality check' + bigger picture on the industry :)
Can you add a bit more? please,,

1) Not sure if your where to busy with your own rant, that you didn't notice that Oscar dog, had some good question and they got answered pretty good.

- You might have missed that he was not interested in racing / speed, but just fly / foil time.
- Also if you didn't read through all the replies, - then Oscar did mention he got a SS set up with the 84cm wing.
( Topic done at this point really,,)

2) I can only assume your write up is a bit of a joke and not too serious :) ( It is funny )

3) Slingshot was never in the racing / speed game for the foils. Think they might even take distance from it,,
Just making pure fun functional products really.

Not sure if anybody care.
But the Ride Engine is Slingshots sister brand. The blue / green foils setup has been there for years.
In general my understanding they wanted to cover a different market with those product.
Not really any secret that those are the same identically products as Infinity wings.

For the Moses vs Slingshot Ghost whisperer rant. You might have to dig a bit deeper on this one,, - but I'm sure you can do it with the quality of info you all ready delivered,,

Your lost 50% of your milage as your where using the Slinghot 'shovel foils' - what a bummer :(, sorry to hear this.

I lost 50% of an hour here to write this, - even worse :)

I'm selling Slingshot here in Australia by the way + is one of those "Slingshot Worshipers"

:)

J

I didnt like the first series SS, they were bad. However, the i76 really changed a lot for slingshot in my opinion! Its a great allround wing, usable by most foilers out there. The only people I would recommend something different are the heavier weights needing to ride bigger sails, or everyone who does lake cruising with sails primarily over 6m (so as a light wind option).

I think the main tradeoff for those 4.5-7m sail users is in what you enjoy most, in my experience a well designed high aspect foil is actually more stable than something like a i76, and easier to jibe, but the tradeoff is that its way less playful on swells or windchops, that its harder to do 360's and the like with, and that they are a lot faster! (For a beginner thats most often a negative, faster is scary for most starting out foiling!)

In my opinion a high aspect foil in the 1200-1400cm2 range (like the lokefoil freeride 1300) does the best job for a beginner. Its slower than most HA foils, but still handles big sails well and is more stable and easier to jibe than most LA foils.

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SA_AL said..
As a recreational foiler, I would like to say, SS infinity was excellent for learning, particularly i84 and i99, helped me tremendously getting my balance on those foils. I am still not convinced going for a race foil set up since I would prefer to use as small sail possible in lighter wind (12 mph; at 220 lbs pound) despite I know that I will go slower and race foilers will wave at me. Most of the regular WSs are going faster than me anyway but I I like the feeling of levitation and enjoying less physical challenge at my age of over 60. I now sold all of my big sails (>8.2) and I am usually using 7.0 Flyer or 6.3 Goya Fringe. After getting fairly comfortable with foiling with SS foils, I decided to move to Armstrong foils (HS1850, CF2400). These foils perform similar to SS but set-up is easier, carbon foil is 50% lighter and there is no screw corrosion problems. However, I did not feel any significant improvements in performance compared to SS foils. I would still recommend SS (or Ride Engine) anyone beginning to foiling due to cheaper price or Armstrong if cost is not an issue. I love to ride faster but I do not like to use large sails as I see that is required for my body on light wind conditions for race foils from Starboard that are also significantly heavier than Armstrong foil.
I am curious if anyone could share their experience or provide data for comparison of medium to low aspect foils for speed performance among some of the commonly used brands.

(Bold mine) And another example of "know thyself". The right gear for the right expectations and interests.