Struggling to break 20 knots. I'm on an IQ foil, starboard foil 147 and my biggest sail is a Duotone E Pace 6.6. Have tried running deep, have tried reaching, have tried -1 shim and have tried both fuselages but I just can't get past 19 knots. I'm pushing as hard as I can so it's not a case of backing off. Any suggestions?

Bigger sail

What he said^^^

what kind of wind strength are you trying to do it in?

Maybe you need more down hall because your leach is to tight and less out hall for more power down wind wind

How much do you weigh? Flat water or rough? How high are your riding?

What may help is if you can get a GPS with audible call out to see what's actually working for you. A cheap or used android phone, waterproof pouch and this app works: www.windsporttracker.com

Select to expand quote

AUS 814 said..
Bigger sail

Yep. Fastest way around the course is money. So, while you're spending get a slalom setup, and you'll skip right past 20kts.

Or, if you don't want to spend money, spend time finishing your foil.


My buddy swears he got an extra 1.5-2kts of speed by doing similar stuff to his foil. Of course, doing this means your gear may no longer be IQ Foil one-design compliant depending on how far you go.

Yeah unless you're in strong wind a bigger sail is probably a solution, unless you are oversheeting the sail?

IQFoil setup with 0 shim/115+(-2 rear wing) easily crosses 20 knots reaching or downwind with a 9.0. I say easily as I could do it without much experience. Pushing mid 20s is where it really takes skill/balls. You also may have overshimmed it with -1.

But I also understand not wanting to plunk down $$$ for the race rig. If you do get a big sdm rig be careful as I'm on my third mast and don't go out as far as I did without friends around.

Select to expand quote

aeroegnr said..
Yeah unless you're in strong wind a bigger sail is probably a solution, unless you are oversheeting the sail?

IQFoil setup with 0 shim/115+(-2 rear wing) easily crosses 20 knots reaching or downwind with a 9.0. I say easily as I could do it without much experience. Pushing mid 20s is where it really takes skill/balls. You also may have overshimmed it with -1.

But I also understand not wanting to plunk down $$$ for the race rig. If you do get a big sdm rig be careful as I'm on my third mast and don't go out as far as I did without friends around.

Yeah, I missed the bit about the -1 shim. If your using that with a -2 stabiliser you might have removed too much pitch stability, and made it too back foot biased, which won't help the scenario with the iq foil set up. Try using at least the 0 shim, preferably the 0.5 or +1 you want to get some lift happening so you're not spending downwind legs pitching up and down. It ain't fast.

I'd still be using a bigger sail though, unless we're talking 20+ knots of wind

go down hill!

Select to expand quote

dohertpk said..
Struggling to break 20 knots. I'm on an IQ foil, starboard foil 147 and my biggest sail is a Duotone E Pace 6.6. Have tried running deep, have tried reaching, have tried -1 shim and have tried both fuselages but I just can't get past 19 knots. I'm pushing as hard as I can so it's not a case of backing off. Any suggestions?

just send it and you will go faster. I was yesterday with my 800 wing, 0 shim, 6.0 Flyer FR in less than 13 knots (with occasional 15-17 gusts) and my top speed was 24 knots. I was not going for speed, just practicing my gibes. I weigh 75 kilos. As it gets windy we tend to point upwind but doing that doesn't increase top speed by much. I do the same so I also need to send it (it can be scary, right?).

Find some flat water. I'm mostly on freeride foils and sails in chop and quite slow, but broke through 20 knots with a 5.6 m freestyle sail in one of the few flat water sessions with my GT-R+ setup (800 front wing, 95+ fuse).

I also would not worry too much about going very deep. With a fin, that's what you have to do for top speeds, but the speed difference for foils between 90 and 130 degrees is a lot less. With limited experience, you're probably more comfortable at a smaller downwind angle, and therefore faster. The smaller sail will also work better closer to a beam reach, since very deep angles require larger sails due to less apparent wind.

If I am pushing for speed I try to channel Nico Goyard hang down on the harness lines with knees bent while on a beam reach.

Select to expand quote

dohertpk said..
Struggling to break 20 knots. I'm on an IQ foil, starboard foil 147 and my biggest sail is a Duotone E Pace 6.6. Have tried running deep, have tried reaching, have tried -1 shim and have tried both fuselages but I just can't get past 19 knots. I'm pushing as hard as I can so it's not a case of backing off. Any suggestions?

Without any video or stills, how do you expect to get any decent replies? Its obviously a technique issue, assuming your kit is in decent shape. and you arent sailing in waves Are there any other foilers where you sail who could help?

Select to expand quote

thedoor said..
If I am pushing for speed I try to channel Nico Goyard hang down on the harness lines with knees bent while on a beam reach.

Your Braver than I am . If I'm going for speed, I get out of the harness and try to channel less fear

The video on cleaning up the wing was interesting, I know on one of my AFS wings, S670 I recall, I was sliding my hand over the brand new wing and felt a bump, about 1 cm x 2 cm on the topside trailing edge, carefully sanded with a block to get flush with surrounding surface, had to sand off the carbon twill layer in the high spot to do that. That high spot would definitely of affected the flow of water over the wing. Funny thing is the extra material was under the outer carbon twill layer. The F770 wing had some extra material in several spots too, but that material was on top of the carbon twill.

So at least run your hand over both surfaces of the wing to feel for bumps, and the leading and trailing edges, could have a bumpy wing that is slower because of the imperfections.

Cheers all. Sounds like a bigger sail is called for. Have had my 6.6 out in about 20 knots and still can't crack that 20 knot ceiling. I'm not sure an extra few knots would justify a couple of hundred euro...my skiff needs a new kite...

Select to expand quote

dohertpk said..
Cheers all. Sounds like a bigger sail is called for. Have had my 6.6 out in about 20 knots and still can't crack that 20 knot ceiling. I'm not sure an extra few knots would justify a couple of hundred euro...my skiff needs a new kite...

If you're in 20 knots with that sail and not breaking 20 knots on the foil then something else is probably off, honestly.

Your biggest asset to going faster is more time on the water, put the hours in and it will happen with the gear you already have, in time you will cruise at 20

Yeah, if you're not cruising around/over 20knots down breeze in 20 knots of wind, then something else is not right.
these Sam Ross clips are good to watch to pick up tips:




one little thing with the instructional video, don't stay hooked into the back strap with an iq foil, you'll die.

Hes not on an iq foil, and he's not out in 20knots of wind either. But you can see his speeds despite not being out in 20knts, he still cruises straight over 20knots speed wise.

Select to expand quote

Subsonic said..
He's not on an iq foil, and he's not out in 20knots of wind either. But you can see his speeds despite not being out in 20knts, he still cruises straight over 20knots speed wise.

Nice video. But while he is not on the IQ board, it's pretty likely that he uses a GT-R setup, with the same 800 front wing that the IQ foils use. Perhaps the board is narrower and the fuse shorter, but that should mostly affect upwind angles. Seems that shorter fuses and narrower boards are often used in slalom foiling.
For anyone who struggles to break 20 knots on a foil, it's quite impressive how easy he makes 23 knots look.

Select to expand quote

boardsurfr said..

Subsonic said..
He's not on an iq foil, and he's not out in 20knots of wind either. But you can see his speeds despite not being out in 20knts, he still cruises straight over 20knots speed wise.

Nice video. But while he is not on the IQ board, it's pretty likely that he uses a GT-R setup, with the same 800 front wing that the IQ foils use. Perhaps the board is narrower and the fuse shorter, but that should mostly affect upwind angles. Seems that shorter fuses and narrower boards are often used in slalom foiling.
For anyone who struggles to break 20 knots on a foil, it's quite impressive how easy he makes 23 knots look.

He's using the 1100 Freeride - he mentions it in the comments of the video below. IQs use 900 not 800.

"95 Vertical (Foil Mast) 115 standard fuselage, 1100 Front wing (Freeride) 255 Rear wing"

A big aspect of speed on the foil is sail trim. Try going flatter in the outhaul and more loose leech. I crossed 30 knots a few times on my freeride kit (105L F-One board, F-One Levo 900cm2 foil and 4.9 S2Maui Dragon) in 18-22ish knot wind. If I run the sail full with little downhaul like most people run their foiling setup I cant even come close and stay stuck around 23-24 knots when really pushing it. Outhaul might be a bit of personal preference here, but downhaul is paramount for top speed and acceleration! I run more outhaul because it stabilises the sail in gusts, gives more more confidence to keep pushing the speed.

Also get rid of your uphaul rope, that got me an extra 2-3 knots of speed.

Select to expand quote

WhiteofHeart said..
A big aspect of speed on the foil is sail trim. Try going flatter in the outhaul and more loose leech. I crossed 30 knots a few times on my freeride kit (105L F-One board, F-One Levo 900cm2 foil and 4.9 S2Maui Dragon) in 18-22ish knot wind. If I run the sail full with little downhaul like most people run their foiling setup I cant even come close and stay stuck around 23-24 knots when really pushing it. Outhaul might be a bit of personal preference here, but downhaul is paramount for top speed and acceleration! I run more outhaul because it stabilises the sail in gusts, gives more more confidence to keep pushing the speed.

Also get rid of your uphaul rope, that got me an extra 2-3 knots of speed.

Thanks Whiteofheart
This is great advise as always, thanks for sharing

Hey Dohurtpk.... good luck and hope you have make 20 knots before long. I regularly cruise at 20kts now.

And more ... as part of this thread I've done 1 run at 30knots now.
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Foiling/F4Foils-Tuning-Tips-Towards-30-knots-?page=1

I still need to try more downhaul, as I have never been good at rigging that way, I like power!

For me, I like smooth water, which means you might need to travel upwind from your launch site.
Gain confidence in the harness, with an adjustable line length... it really helps to be able to stand away from the sail.
Get into theback strap, it helps stabilise the board but takes guts!
Micro movments to balance your foil and sail.

Here area few videos





The thing that surprises me the most is my top speeds... 26kt +/- 1.5knots on race to slalom foils. I've still got a lot of work to do to be able to push past 30kts more often!

I hit 19.7 knots this evening...getting there. I forgot to mention on I'm on the IQ junior kit. It has the aluminium rather than the carbon mast. That has to be worth a few knots!

Select to expand quote

dohertpk said..
I hit 19.7 knots this evening...getting there. I forgot to mention on I'm on the IQ junior kit. It has the aluminium rather than the carbon mast. That has to be worth a few knots!

So you also have the 800 front wing that comes with the junior kit?

Select to expand quote

dohertpk said..
I hit 19.7 knots this evening...getting there. I forgot to mention on I'm on the IQ junior kit. It has the aluminium rather than the carbon mast. That has to be worth a few knots!

Thanks for mentioning that you are on the junior kit. With the 800 front wing and 255-2 tail wing, it's exactly what I was using yesterday. That was only my second time with this combo, and I noticed some differences to the larger (330?) tail wing that came with my GT-R. Taking off seemed harder, and the minimum speed for stable flight seemed a couple of knots higher. I tried to look up the suggested shim, but only found references to use the 0 degree shim as default.

The IQ foil junior web page clarified that. The 0 degree shim is suggested for the 115+ fuse, the +1 shim for the 95+ fuse. Since I was on the 95+, the 0 degree shim I used was not quite enough for the wind.

Interestingly, I got exactly the same top (2 second) speed of as you yesterday (with the 85 cm carbon mast, but I got the same speeds before with the 85 cm alu mast). I have to work on the "bending the knees/dropping your weight" that Sam Ross talks about in the "Increasing flight speed" video. I also noticed that he has the boom quite high, which should help hanging on the boom and loading up the sail. The other thing to work on is the "rigid body stance" when the knees are bent. In windsurfing, rigid stance typically means straight legs, and bend knees means flexible knees to even out chop. I still try to do the same when foiling, which typically leads to too much changes in flight height.

Select to expand quote

boardsurfr said..

dohertpk said..
I hit 19.7 knots this evening...getting there. I forgot to mention on I'm on the IQ junior kit. It has the aluminium rather than the carbon mast. That has to be worth a few knots!

So you also have the 800 front wing that comes with the junior kit?

No - it came with a 900 wing.

Select to expand quote

boardsurfr said..

dohertpk said..
I hit 19.7 knots this evening...getting there. I forgot to mention on I'm on the IQ junior kit. It has the aluminium rather than the carbon mast. That has to be worth a few knots!

Thanks for mentioning that you are on the junior kit. With the 800 front wing and 255-2 tail wing, it's exactly what I was using yesterday. That was only my second time with this combo, and I noticed some differences to the larger (330?) tail wing that came with my GT-R. Taking off seemed harder, and the minimum speed for stable flight seemed a couple of knots higher. I tried to look up the suggested shim, but only found references to use the 0 degree shim as default.

The IQ foil junior web page clarified that. The 0 degree shim is suggested for the 115+ fuse, the +1 shim for the 95+ fuse. Since I was on the 95+, the 0 degree shim I used was not quite enough for the wind.

Interestingly, I got exactly the same top (2 second) speed of as you yesterday (with the 85 cm carbon mast, but I got the same speeds before with the 85 cm alu mast). I have to work on the "bending the knees/dropping your weight" that Sam Ross talks about in the "Increasing flight speed" video. I also noticed that he has the boom quite high, which should help hanging on the boom and loading up the sail. The other thing to work on is the "rigid body stance" when the knees are bent. In windsurfing, rigid stance typically means straight legs, and bend knees means flexible knees to even out chop. I still try to do the same when foiling, which typically leads to too much changes in flight height.

Interesting. After receiving some advice, I've been setting my boom for the past year or so. The foil just seems to hit a wall at this speed. I can happily keep pace with other windfoilers and seem to have a similar stance etc.

Select to expand quote

boardsurfr said..
Thanks for mentioning that you are on the junior kit. With the 800 front wing and 255-2 tail wing, it's exactly what I was using yesterday. That was only my second time with this combo, and I noticed some differences to the larger (330?) tail wing that came with my GT-R. Taking off seemed harder, and the minimum speed for stable flight seemed a couple of knots higher. I tried to look up the suggested shim, but only found references to use the 0 degree shim as default.

The IQ foil junior web page clarified that. The 0 degree shim is suggested for the 115+ fuse, the +1 shim for the 95+ fuse. Since I was on the 95+, the 0 degree shim I used was not quite enough for the wind.

Just a thought - I'd imagine the IQFoil jr set up is targeting generally lighter sailors. It may be that heavier adult sailors may need to tweak the settings from the recommendations.

Select to expand quote

Paducah said..

boardsurfr said..
Thanks for mentioning that you are on the junior kit. With the 800 front wing and 255-2 tail wing, it's exactly what I was using yesterday. That was only my second time with this combo, and I noticed some differences to the larger (330?) tail wing that came with my GT-R. Taking off seemed harder, and the minimum speed for stable flight seemed a couple of knots higher. I tried to look up the suggested shim, but only found references to use the 0 degree shim as default.

The IQ foil junior web page clarified that. The 0 degree shim is suggested for the 115+ fuse, the +1 shim for the 95+ fuse. Since I was on the 95+, the 0 degree shim I used was not quite enough for the wind.

Just a thought - I'd imagine the IQFoil jr set up is targeting generally lighter sailors. It may be that heavier adult sailors may need to tweak the settings from the recommendations.

Hmmm....good point. I'm 67kg and find the 0 degree shim provides too much lift in most wind. I find I'm most comfortable on the 0.5.