I am currently looking for a larger sail for my foil combo.

Board: Flikka Foil (111l, 190x73cm)
Foil: SAB 799/720
Sails: HSM KS3 4,9 and 5,5
Rider weight: 75 kg

So I am currently looking for another sail for the lower wind range (from 10, or even 8 knots).

With the 5.5 KS3 I have the problem that pumping with the sail doesn't feel very efficient and the combi likes to lose speed while flying slowly but surely in very low wind (my spot is VERY gusty).

Actually, I like the KS3 extremely. Feels in a little more wind just super light and damped, so I've been thinking about just buying a bigger one. I also came across the Fringe 6.3 from Goya.

My dealer then said that the new Cypher 5.9 would be even better suited, since it would probably have more power in the lower wind range despite the smaller size.

What do you think? Can you really expect more from the 5.9 Cypher than from the 6.3 Fringe in low wind? Has anyone possibly already gathered some experience?

I'm really only interested in early takeoff with this sail. I have no problem with pumping - as long as it is efficient. Also the wind range is not so extremely important to me, because I still have the KS3 5.5.

Looking forward to your thoughts!

Foilers up in the PacNW like the KS3 and Fringe, but only up to about 5.0. Bigger than 5.0 their characteristics change so much that some people don't like them. I have a Fringe 5.7, which is more difficult to foil than my Fringe 5.0. I reconfirmed this two days ago at Roosevelt.

I know nothing about the Cypher, but have heard it is good. More low end.

So, bigger than about 5.0 you can't go wrong with the Sailworks Flyer. Yes, it has 2 cams, but cams contribute to what the OP says he wants for performance in light wind. At 95 kg weight my biggest foiling sail is a Flyer 7.0 (the newer 5-batten is better than the older 4-batten).

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MoschMich said..
I am currently looking for a larger sail for my foil combo.

Board: Flikka Foil (111l, 190x73cm)
Foil: SAB 799/720
Sails: HSM KS3 4,9 and 5,5
Rider weight: 75 kg

So I am currently looking for another sail for the lower wind range (from 10, or even 8 knots).

With the 5.5 KS3 I have the problem that pumping with the sail doesn't feel very efficient and the combi likes to lose speed while flying slowly but surely in very low wind (my spot is VERY gusty).

Actually, I like the KS3 extremely. Feels in a little more wind just super light and damped, so I've been thinking about just buying a bigger one. I also came across the Fringe 6.3 from Goya.

My dealer then said that the new Cypher 5.9 would be even better suited, since it would probably have more power in the lower wind range despite the smaller size.

What do you think? Can you really expect more from the 5.9 Cypher than from the 6.3 Fringe in low wind? Has anyone possibly already gathered some experience?

I'm really only interested in early takeoff with this sail. I have no problem with pumping - as long as it is efficient. Also the wind range is not so extremely important to me, because I still have the KS3 5.5.

Looking forward to your thoughts!

Not the same sizes, but i have used fringe from 3.3 to 4.2 for a year and now added 5.1 Cypher. Cypher does have a lot more pull and at the same time de-powers really easy. My vote for 5.9

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segler said..
Foilers up in the PacNW like the KS3 and Fringe, but only up to about 5.0. Bigger than 5.0 their characteristics change so much that some people don't like them. I have a Fringe 5.7, which is more difficult to foil than my Fringe 5.0. I reconfirmed this two days ago at Roosevelt.

I know nothing about the Cypher, but have heard it is good. More low end.

So, bigger than about 5.0 you can't go wrong with the Sailworks Flyer. Yes, it has 2 cams, but cams contribute to what the OP says he wants for performance in light wind. At 95 kg weight my biggest foiling sail is a Flyer 7.0 (the newer 5-batten is better than the older 4-batten).

Unfortunately, sailworks are difficult to find in europe.
For me, the alternative would have been a severne Foilgilde 2 7.0.
However, I am afraid that my board is too compact for the sail.
I have already tested the board with a 7.8 north S-Type (3 cam Freerace fin). I did not like it at all. The sail is nailed to the board, while the board itself is very free.
Therefore the fear that it is similar with a 7.0 2-cam foil.

Regarding finge: I have also wondered how you get a 6.3 or even 6.7 (KS3) stable with 3 battens. Other sails like to have 2-3 battens more.

Out of my 2 fringes 4 and 5 m , the 4m is really great, the 5m has its good points but it has too loose leach to really have enough oomph to get you going on it's low end.
So the larger you go with the fringe, the more compromised the sail design.

if I could I'd swap my 5m fringe for a cypher.

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RuddeBos said..
Out of my 2 fringes 4 and 5 m , the 4m is really great, the 5m has its good points but it has too loose leach to really have enough oomph to get you going on it's low end.
So the larger you go with the fringe, the more compromised the sail design.

if I could I'd swap my 5m fringe for a cypher.

That has been my experience as well. My fringe 3.7 is fun in consistenty high wind, but my 5.3 fringe is too big and floppy in lighter air vs my 2 cam 5.2 flyer. Pumping is a lot more effective with
A cammed sail for me (small, old, and weak)

Tuning the fringe is also more critical. Took me a while to find the sweet spot (50% of the recommended down haul regardless of wind speed, and control power with outhaul).

My .02

Agree. With just 3 battens, the Fringe seems to work well when under-downhauled to keep the leech tight.

It shocks me how people talk about using such small sails sizes in light wind, especially floppy wave or freestyle sails. At 85kg I would be on at least a 7.0, preferably an 8.0. Maybe everybody has big swells they are using to get going. I don't really get it.

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I have a 2018 6.3 Fringe
Definitely best for foiling if set tight. Also best for big surfy foils and swell rides in very light wind. Probably the best gybing sail I own for it's size. Pumps really well if you aren't a passive sailor.
Downsides are narrow wind range, limited VMG and doesn't punch through lulls at all so works best in constant lower wind but not gusts.

In those wind speeds I find a freerace foil, board and sail more entertaining.

having tested both in the 4.x size range, i find the Cypher to be superior to the Fringe for windsurf foiling

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Windbot said..
It shocks me how people talk about using such small sails sizes in light wind, especially floppy wave or freestyle sails. At 85kg I would be on at least a 7.0, preferably an 8.0. Maybe everybody has big swells they are using to get going. I don't really get it.

1400 low aspect front wing , 6m wave sail and a good pumping technique on a 125 litre board gets my 90kg frame going in 10+ kts.

I agree with windbot I need an 8.2 flyer to get going in 10 knotts.

I agree about that, too. I weigh 95 kg. Yesterday I was out in 10 kts and could not get going with a 7.0 Flyer (5-batten). When it "gusted" to 13, I could get going, then keep going in the 10 kt lulls. Even with a 8.5 race sail, a 10 kt wind does not have enough energy in it to get me going.

People talk about foiling in 7 kts or 8 kts of wind. Yeah right. Whatever they're smoking, it must be good stuff. I need to see at least a few whitecaps, which is the onset of 12 kts.

^^^ Weight is everything in windsurfing (beyond wind speed of course). I used to be on smaller sails than anyone else back in the day, but I was 65kg at the time. Just a few months ago I got back into the sport, at 90kg. I'm working my way down to 80kg for this very reason.

I was able to get foiling with the 6.3 fringe and a 1300cm2 wing when another sailor my weight (95kg) needed a 7.0 Flyer and 1100cm2 wing with a more efficient board. I'm a better pumper, there were no whitecaps.
Foiling efficiency requires technique and good equipment set-up.

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Grantmac said..
I was able to get foiling with the 6.3 fringe and a 1300cm2 wing when another sailor my weight (95kg) needed a 7.0 Flyer and 1100cm2 wing with a more efficient board. I'm a better pumper, there were no whitecaps.
Foiling efficiency requires technique and good equipment set-up.

Of course, at 135 lb things works better for me, but if I see even a hint of white caps, I'm on 4.2 or smaller, under that 5.1. and big foil(>=1300cm2), good pumping technique is a must

Thanks for the Input - its a great help for me! I will defenetly go with the Cypher 5,9 (or maby 5,6).
I think, that you can foil with a big wing and a sub 6m sail in very light winds - when you can pump the Sail and the Board.