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boardsurfr said..
...
I disagree. I still can't jibe well after 100+ foil sessions, but I can tack all day long. I find foil tacks on my old slalom boards just as easy as longboard tacks, but a lot more fun since the turning is much easier....

....I'm actually a bit frustrated that I always push the nose of my board under water in the tacks when I switch sides. I may have 8 knots dead into the wind, but sinking the nose really kills the speed. ....

Are you doing foiling tacks? Or tacks down on the surface? I'm not sure surface tacks with a foil really count.

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Gorgo said..

boardsurfr said..
...
I disagree. I still can't jibe well after 100+ foil sessions, but I can tack all day long. I find foil tacks on my old slalom boards just as easy as longboard tacks, but a lot more fun since the turning is much easier....

....I'm actually a bit frustrated that I always push the nose of my board under water in the tacks when I switch sides. I may have 8 knots dead into the wind, but sinking the nose really kills the speed. ....

Are you doing foiling tacks? Or tacks down on the surface? I'm not sure surface tacks with a foil really count.

I'd like to see any windfoiler do a foiling tack.

Duzzi,
It was not 50 sessions untill I had fun. It was 50 sessions before I could sail in control most of the time. It is hard but worth it. Focus on small gains like, wow I sailed out and back with out falling in or what ever. Lower your expectations, be patient and persistant. Try getting towed it will help unlearn all the windsurfing weighting that is hard to do when you have a sail in your hands. Keep going you got this!

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Gorgo said..
Are you doing foiling tacks? Or tacks down on the surface? I'm not sure surface tacks with a foil really count.

Well, you need to turn around eventually, and if you can't jibe, tacks are on option if your board has a decent nose.

There was a tack thread here that had some nice videos of the top guys in the world tacking their foils. It was all foil into the turn, then the board is on the water when going around the front. So technically, one could say they did not foil through the jibe, but they fully planed through. I'd be very happy with that!

The only way to foil through tacks when windfoiling is to not walk around the mast. Balz M?ller has shown fully foiled through heli tacks and duck tacks (both old and new school). I think I have seen others foil through heli tacks on videos, too.

In my tacks, I usually am on the foil until the nose has turned into, or a bit through, the wind. That already feels cool. In my best heli tack attempts, I got backwinded while still on the foil, also quite a cool feeling. But I have not foiled through one, or even gotten really close. On my regular tacks, the nose of my 117 l board usually sinks as soon as I step around the mast. I'm getting a 138 l board today, and it will be interesting to see if that changes anything. It may not, since the board is a lot shorter.

The old school duck tack should be easiest to foil through, since it has the least amount of movements. But I'm having a bit of a mental issue doing it in strong winds, and if you're foiling dead into the wind, you've got pretty strong apparent wind - like 20 knots if you're foiling in 12 knots of wind. We'll have the top windsurf and foil instructor in the US visiting here in a few weeks - I'll ask him to demo it then .

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azymuth said..
Is there a particular issue you're having gybing?
If you (or anyone else) don't have anyone local to offer advice see if you can get a video of your gybes and post them here.

There's a number of us in the SS crew here comfortable gybing (freeride) - we might be able to offer advice and we'd be stoked if we can help

Thanks for the offer. My particular issue is that I usually crash when I try . The first few crashes then to be ok, but then they become scary, and I stop trying. Step jibes were not to bad, but a few crashes in sail first jibes have been "interesting". I started wearing a helmet all the time after hitting my head on the front wing in one memorable crash.

I'm also good at finding excuses to not even try. Currently, it's jelly fish. We now quite often see swarms with a dozen or more, and I have absolutely no desire to copy the head-first dive my wife did into a swarm last year. Talk about memorable! I heard her scream from half a kilometer away. My other common excuse is the chop we're foiling in, which is often the size of the mast. With my i84, that's a lot of up and down. Quite different from the lovely waves you have in WA. I also don't want to practice mistakes. I'm still working on avoiding the jibe mistakes I practiced for decades on the slapper! But many excuses should fall away soon, when the water gets colder, we can sail flat spots again because life guards leave, and I get a wider board. Maybe then I'll come back to your offer.

The bay is usually very windy!!! That could be quite tricky to learn on big sails...for the foil 25 kts I would be on a 3.3/3.7 with my foil. I guess you have a 4.2 to learn on? Bigger on than that when learning you will breach out big time, specially with the swell... If your board is not stable enough to be confortable with no wind in your sail and be able to handle the chop/swell in the lulls, that could be really frustrating.

Where I leave it's supper gusty as well, but the water is warm, no big fish swimming under no super big boat crossing the bay as your spot. My advice is keep your quiver, go learn in a warm steady wind spot...and then use your quiver when you would not be able to go out at the bay.

Foiling is the best tool for wind spot where you would not go out. Wind in 8-13 kts is sailable..but with a 5.2 it's darn cool!! Wind spot where you wait 2min for a gust, got a gust and sail for 30 sec...with foiling you will be up all the time. I don't take my freestyle board anymore, unless it's solide and constant.

Those who gave up here were on too small front wing. That is not your case, your setup is a sweet setup I think. Good luck

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utcminusfour said..
Duzzi,
It was not 50 sessions untill I had fun. It was 50 sessions before I could sail in control most of the time. It is hard but worth it. Focus on small gains like, wow I sailed out and back with out falling in or what ever. Lower your expectations, be patient and persistant. Try getting towed it will help unlearn all the windsurfing weighting that is hard to do when you have a sail in your hands. Keep going you got this!

That makes me feel a bit better! By the way Gwarn is a friend of mine, we sail the same spots. He is one of the most comfortable-looking foilers I see around. He uses the same Moses 790 but with a 105 mast. He sails a lot at Treasure Island, a great spot in the Bay that can have the biggest, and most regular, swell! Passing by there is also a small group of ex-formula sailors regularly foiling Berkeley to San Francisco routes. They got it!!!!!!

When you sail 90+ days a year with gear smaller than 6.5 and 90 liter board, do you really need to add more days?
Season from March to mid Oct.

Your 790 is, by far, one of the best to practice windfoiling on. Don't give up. If necessary change board or sails, but keep that 790. Whatever your gear, make sure it is balanced. That means you, as a starting point, have the front wing at the mid point between front and back feet, and the sail mast base at about 42" in front of the front fin screw. Tweak from there.

If conditions in the Bay are a problem (many say it is), ya gotta spend some time on the water elsewhere. Close by is Sherman Island/Rio Vista. That place is so nice that I drive down from Washington state to sail in the nice conditions there (and I live in the gorge, no less).

If you can take a week or two off during the summer, come on up here, and I will show you several very nice foiler-friendly steady-wind sites out in the far-east gorge to ply your trade.

Regarding the 790, I had the chance to demo one in the Gorge last year and it was magic, basically a faster, higher wind version of my Infinity 84 that I use at my lame wind local spot. Duzzi, stick with the Moses and it will get better. I had the benefit of steady wind when I was learning. It was only this summer that I started riding in 0-20 lake spots thanks to limited sailing locations in my part of the world due to COVID.

As a bit of an aside. One thing I've noticed is that the advice you get on this forum is really really subjective. There are guys on here who live in windsurfing paradises where it's always ridiculously windy and they dole out advice as though everyone else has the same and should be able to foil in what they call 15kts with a 3.0. Often it is assumed you know they weigh 50.8kg . Then there are the other poor 100kg blokes who live at 12,000ft and sail mountain lakes two months of the year and deal wit 0-15kts who got in to foiling to get more sessions than they ever could with even formula gear. I fall somewhere in between, but closer to the latter group and find their advice much more helpful than those who contend with daily 20 knot breezes. I guess what I'm saying is that your mileage may vary and that different locales will vastly affect the learning experience. I know I'd be way better at foiling if had 120 days a year of 16kt winds, but I don't, because my spot dictates my progress as does most people's. Hang in there!

I personally can't see giving foiling up. It is so much fun! I didn't know if I'd like it at first. It took me 10 sessions to get it down. Doing air gybes is another story. I only tried one air gybe, over foiled and got bucked off the back end. I know I gybed in windsurf mode instead of foiling mode. I'll focus on the air gybe next season. Currently I just tack and pop back up on foil. Tacking the board is fine with me for now.

That's too bad it's not working out for you. I made sure when I made the choice to invest with foiling, the gear would all be the same brand and match up with one another. I wanted a very stable wing, and chose the i84 from many recommendations and have not once regreted it. Lots of people mix max board brands with foil brands. I did not want to choose that route. I wish you good luck on whatever you choose. Food for thought, you could always hold onto your gear, put it away for a few years and if you get the urge to try it again it's ready for you.

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duzzi said..

utcminusfour said..
Duzzi,
It was not 50 sessions untill I had fun. It was 50 sessions before I could sail in control most of the time. It is hard but worth it. Focus on small gains like, wow I sailed out and back with out falling in or what ever. Lower your expectations, be patient and persistant. Try getting towed it will help unlearn all the windsurfing weighting that is hard to do when you have a sail in your hands. Keep going you got this!

That makes me feel a bit better! By the way Gwarn is a friend of mine, we sail the same spots. He is one of the most comfortable-looking foilers I see around. He uses the same Moses 790 but with a 105 mast. He sails a lot at Treasure Island, a great spot in the Bay that can have the biggest, and most regular, swell! Passing by there is also a small group of ex-formula sailors regularly foiling Berkeley to San Francisco routes. They got it!!!!!!

I know you are not really looking for advice, but did Gwarn ride your kit? I have done this for friends who are learning mostly just to check that how they have things set up is ridable. Skill is certainly important but so are the settings. More TOW with bad settings will not produce the desired results.

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LeeD said..
When you sail 90+ days a year with gear smaller than 6.5 and 90 liter board, do you really need to add more days?
Season from March to mid Oct.

Yes... Especially if they are foiling days.


I think duzzi needs to go on holiday with Gwen. That would solve a few problems.

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Foiling/Lagos--Best-Spot-To-Windfoil-In-Algarve--

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Paducah said..

LeeD said..
When you sail 90+ days a year with gear smaller than 6.5 and 90 liter board, do you really need to add more days?
Season from March to mid Oct.

Yes... Especially if they are foiling days.


I think duzzi needs to go on holiday with Gwen. That would solve a few problems.

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Foiling/Lagos--Best-Spot-To-Windfoil-In-Algarve--

oooooooooooooh ... I want that ... I am moving! Enough of San Francisco Fog and 25 knots gusts! I'll find a way to drag Gwarn along!

12 sessions in 2 years is not going to get you there.. try 12 sessions in 1 month and see the progress you make. My first year of foiling I did over 150 sessions (over 6000km), and because of that I was able to fly jibes after about 4 months / half a year. Ofcourse there's time constraints but the nice thing about foiling is that every day between 8 and 25 knots is a good day. Even if you only go out for an hour or 2 its a win! I try to do about 80km a session, but sometimes theres just no time.

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WhiteofHeart said..
12 sessions in 2 years is not going to get you there.. try 12 sessions in 1 month and see the progress you make. My first year of foiling I did over 150 sessions (over 6000km), and because of that I was able to fly jibes after about 4 months / half a year. Ofcourse there's time constraints but the nice thing about foiling is that every day between 8 and 25 knots is a good day. Even if you only go out for an hour or 2 its a win! I try to do about 80km a session, but sometimes theres just no time.

Well ... that is where I think that there might be a level of delusion around foiling. I remember reading statements like "an experienced windsurfer will be able to foil in x days" ... you fill in the x but it was not 12 sessions a month for a season. It was more like "after 2-3 tries you will be foiling, and comfortable in ten". What you are saying basically means having to give up windsurfing to learn a new sport.

And I really disagree on the second statement "every day between 8 and 25 knots is a good day". Maybe for an expert foiler, but I have plenty days like that and for a beginner they are just nightmares. Way less range than that is a bloody nightmare!

So maybe this was my main point with this post. Let people know. If they live in a place with unsteady and strong winds, and they are not ready to invest, say, 90% of their time in a new sport ... well, foil might not be for them.

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duzzi said..

WhiteofHeart said..
12 sessions in 2 years is not going to get you there.. try 12 sessions in 1 month and see the progress you make. My first year of foiling I did over 150 sessions (over 6000km), and because of that I was able to fly jibes after about 4 months / half a year. Ofcourse there's time constraints but the nice thing about foiling is that every day between 8 and 25 knots is a good day. Even if you only go out for an hour or 2 its a win! I try to do about 80km a session, but sometimes theres just no time.

Well ... that is where I think that there might be a level of delusion around foiling. I remember reading statements like "an experienced windsurfer will be able to foil in x days" ... you fill in the x but it was not 12 sessions a month for a season. It was more like "after 2-3 tries you will be foiling, and comfortable in ten". What you are saying basically means having to give up windsurfing to learn a new sport.

And I really disagree on the second statement "every day between 8 and 25 knots is a good day". Maybe for an expert foiler, but I have plenty days like that and for a beginner they are just nightmares. Way less range than that is a bloody nightmare!

So maybe this was my main point with this post. Let people know. If they live in a place with unsteady and strong winds, and they are not ready to invest, say, 90% of their time in a new sport ... well, foil might not be for them.

Oh my, I was worried that might happen. WoH definitely pushes his skill level, is competitive and willing to put in the time to achieve a higher level than 90% of us here. I should add that I've benefited greatly from his advice over time. What inspires and drives him might be different than what you are seeking.

duzzi, the way I think about it is how many sessions does it take where you say, "Hey, that was pretty darn cool. I want to do that again!" For some of us, it's the first time everything goes silent and we just need to do that again, someway, somehow. For others, it takes a few times - it's new and getting spanked inflicts a couple of good smacks to the ego but then you get a decent flight and think, "okay, I think I can see where this is going." I was in the first camp. I've had friends that tried it a few times, it didn't resonate, but they finally got tired of watching the rest of us, bought some good gear and I'm starting to see that grin on their face most of us know very well. The path that works for you is the right one.

I'll say it again, my feeling is what would help you most is just a day were it's fun and not a struggle. You've already tried the struggle route and it's not sounding like its your cup of tea. So take some time to find that time and place. It doesn't have to be tomorrow or next week. But, it will be there. If it's difficult conditions, consider giving it a pass. It won't be fun and where you are at, I'm thinking it will just re-enforce your doubts and reservations. Be patient. Almost every one of us here is willing to guarantee that day will happen.

Afterthought: It was about 10 times or so (on not so good gear), that I got to the point where I still sucked but thrilled doing it. Good gear would have cut that down. But, it doesn't matter. I was having a blast and I wasn't going to stop anyway.

If you live in a place with good wind, foiling is more a preference thing. If you prefer WS then there will not be much need to learn foiling, as there won't be enough marginal days during the season to get your foiling dialed. But if someone prefers foiling they will develop the skills to enjoy foiling in their normal conditions irrespective of swell and windspeed.

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IndecentExposur said..
I sail on a lake here in Colorado that has HORRIBLE wind in regards to consistency. 0-25... good luck with that! On top of that, the lake isn't very big (.2 miles across). This lake (Big Soda Lake, BTW) will make you a better sailor, especially foiling. The gusts can be small (10 ft bands) to longer (whole lake is lit up with white caps). It's a funky thermal we deal with on a regular basis.
The people that struggle with Foiling the most (in my observation), are those that are good windsurfers. I sucked at windsurfing, but picked up foiling pretty quickly... I didn't bring in the bad habits. But I searched for the easiest setup to learn with and here's what I found.

Wing: 1000-1300 cm size seems right for beginners. larger wings lift too much, and smaller too less. Just because it's bigger, doesn't mean it's easier.

Fuse. longer the more stable. Seems like many are asking for the longer fuses. they are much more stable and are more resistant to quick changes.

Board Size: WIDE and floaty boards. Another BIG mistake is that traditional windsurfers think smaller the board, the better. This is incorrect with foiling. You want a fast planning board. I use the SB Foil 177, and I run circles around the slingshot guys. I can fly in very light wind and learn quicker. the bigger the platform, the easier it is to move your feet around to find the sweet spots. Beginners on Slingshots here in Colorado struggle like hell to learn. Having tried out many of those boards, the bigger board is not only easier, but just as maneuverable once in the air.

To say the Moses is the Cadillac may not be accurate. The foils look to be short/high lift, which can be frustrating to work with. If you can put a longer fuse and the correct wing (see above), it might help out.

here's a few videos from our lake

The last time i sailed Soda lakes was 1988. I am old!

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thedoor said..
If you live in a place with good wind, foiling is more a preference thing. If you prefer WS then there will not be much need to learn foiling, as there won't be enough marginal days during the season to get your foiling dialed. But if someone prefers foiling they will develop the skills to enjoy foiling in their normal conditions irrespective of swell and windspeed.

I like foiling and WS 100% equally. I only foil in winds under 16 mph, then I go to my bump n jump board. We have many days where the wind is 10-15 which is perfect for foiling. I'd say the winds at my lake is 60 percent foiling and 40 percent WS.

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duzzi said..
Just a curiosity: how many people have given up foiling? Is it just me?

After almost two years and more than a dozen tries I am still struggling with an absurdly limited range of operation and short, when not existent, foiling runs. I spend most of my time slogging. Either because the sail I am using is too small, or because it is too big and I limp back to shore keeping the board down. When I am not slogging I am skipping over the water with the longest foiling run I ever did maybe about 300 meters long. The foil just bloody scares and frustrates me and for the wind conditions where I live it seems to offer just trouble ...

Just to cheer myself up before I get rid of the whole thing, have others had problems with foiling to the point of seriously thinking to give it up and stick to the nice comfort and performance of windsurfing?

I know you aren't asking for advice, but if you'd like to have me take out your gear and see if it's set up properly and balanced, I would be happy to do so. I say this b/c having Robert do it may or may not be much help seeing as he learned to foil on the most unbalanced setup of all time!

I also say this because if you want to learn to foil, I think our local spot, Candlestick, is about as good as it gets. The water is flat, the wind by most standards is not that gusty, and there's always a puff to get you going. I learned to windfoil and wingfoil at Da Stick as you know, and I suggest our spot to anybody looking to get into foiling. My girlfriend loves winging at Da Stick!

I think a couple things are hampering your development in foiling:
-you don't go out often enough (you cite dozen times over two years)
-you are not used to sailing underpowered at all... you tend to rig big and hold on for regular slapper sessions
-you've built up bad juju in your head that previously the equipment or locale was ill-suited to learning (I can help w/ that)

Foiling clicks sooner for some people than others, however having seen you sail over the past decade, I am confident you have the skills and equipment to learn to foil, and I can't think of a better spot to learn (on the correct days). Be like Bert and show up at noon before the wind really kicks in. Let me know if you'd like some help. I don't like to offer suggestions unsolicited as I'm not a coach nor do I feel like it's my business to correct people's technique, but I'm always happy to help anybody who asks.

For others here on the forum, Candlestick is the epicenter of freestyle windsurfing in the San Francisco Bay Area. Flat water and strong wind. Also, the local American Football team San Francisco 49ers (and also baseball team) used to have their stadium across the street from the sailing venue.

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duzzi said..
Just a curiosity: how many people have given up foiling? Is it just me?

After almost two years and more than a dozen tries I am still struggling with an absurdly limited range of operation and short, when not existent, foiling runs. I spend most of my time slogging. Either because the sail I am using is too small, or because it is too big and I limp back to shore keeping the board down. When I am not slogging I am skipping over the water with the longest foiling run I ever did maybe about 300 meters long. The foil just bloody scares and frustrates me and for the wind conditions where I live it seems to offer just trouble ...

Just to cheer myself up before I get rid of the whole thing, have others had problems with foiling to the point of seriously thinking to give it up and stick to the nice comfort and performance of windsurfing?

Nope! I love foiling, it's saved my summers! I'd try some other foils/sail combo's before quitting.

DC

I also live near SF bay, but go to the lightest wind windsurfing spot.
Always sailed 90+ days a season with smaller than 6.0 and 95 liter boards.
Body cannot handle the number of hours.
Easily find MORE wind and hours if I drove 3 more miles
Foiling has increased the number of days, but at the expense of my bigger sails and boards.
I hate course slalom up and down, but foiling down windswells and surviving gusts is OK.
Where does that leave 4 days a week tennis,road biking, and mountain biking?
And I still have 5 surfboards and my old kiting gear.

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sunsetsailboards said..

duzzi said..
Just a curiosity: how many people have given up foiling? Is it just me?

After almost two years and more than a dozen tries I am still struggling with an absurdly limited range of operation and short, when not existent, foiling runs. I spend most of my time slogging. Either because the sail I am using is too small, or because it is too big and I limp back to shore keeping the board down. When I am not slogging I am skipping over the water with the longest foiling run I ever did maybe about 300 meters long. The foil just bloody scares and frustrates me and for the wind conditions where I live it seems to offer just trouble ...

Just to cheer myself up before I get rid of the whole thing, have others had problems with foiling to the point of seriously thinking to give it up and stick to the nice comfort and performance of windsurfing?

I know you aren't asking for advice, but if you'd like to have me take out your gear and see if it's set up properly and balanced, I would be happy to do so. I say this b/c having Robert do it may or may not be much help seeing as he learned to foil on the most unbalanced setup of all time!

I also say this because if you want to learn to foil, I think our local spot, Candlestick, is about as good as it gets. The water is flat, the wind by most standards is not that gusty, and there's always a puff to get you going. I learned to windfoil and wingfoil at Da Stick as you know, and I suggest our spot to anybody looking to get into foiling. My girlfriend loves winging at Da Stick!

I think a couple things are hampering your development in foiling:
-you don't go out often enough (you cite dozen times over two years)
-you are not used to sailing underpowered at all... you tend to rig big and hold on for regular slapper sessions
-you've built up bad juju in your head that previously the equipment or locale was ill-suited to learning (I can help w/ that)
...

I forgot about those videos! Just to be self-centered: the second, filmed by drone in a very placid September day, sports your very Duzzi starting at 18" (let's see what happens if I put a ACX on a RRD FSW) and at 5'58" (let's see how an ancient Exocet Slalom 90 works with an ACX) ... decent asset on the Exocet but conditions where quite under powered (turns out she really likes 4-5 more knots).

You are more than welcome to check my set up and give advise next time we cross paths, thank you! But I think you might forget a basic ingredient: skill. You are one of the best sailors in the Bay Area. and I witnessed how short it took you to foil or wingy effortlessly! Did you even have a learning curve? I do remember seeing you struggling a little bit to complete a foil 360!

I see plenty people who still cannot consistently jibe a foil after 1 or 2 years of regular practice. For mortals tilting toward the inept (see myself second video) is not as easy as for people who sail like you, and some of the other great sailors you see in the first video

And unfortunately I work everyday until 1:30, so no chance to sail in tame winds during the season, but ... I promise (everybody! this is getting to be a long thread!!!!!) I take it back: I won't drop the foil yet. I'll foil late September to early March and see what happens. I'll report back in 2021 (if we are still alive in California ...).

Don't worry about not being able to jibe in flight. After 185 sessions under my belt, my in-flight jibes only happen by accident. Usually I just come down off the wing, jibe as normal, then pump up back to flight after the jibe. No biggie. You don't miss much. Long reaches make up 95% of foiling time and distance anyway.

So, Duzzi, get out there to Rio Vista/Sherman Island for (what I consider) more friendly wind conditions.

???
Sherman is the gustiest short reach spot in the whole SF area besides Oyster Point.

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duzzi said..
Well ... that is where I think that there might be a level of delusion around foiling. I remember reading statements like "an experienced windsurfer will be able to foil in x days" ... you fill in the x but it was not 12 sessions a month for a season. It was more like "after 2-3 tries you will be foiling, and comfortable in ten".

The statement "after 2-3 tries you will be foiling, and comfortable in ten" seems quite reasonable to me, although I'd qualify the "comfortable", since most still crash a lot after 10 sessions.

I have seen maybe 20 people trying foiling for the first time. In every case, that was on equipment that was setup correctly (usually during multi-day windsurfing camps). When the wind was right (~15-20 mph), almost everyone got some short flights during the first session, and probably everyone within 2-3 sessions. Notice the word "short" - for most, the flights were about 50 meters, often followed by crashes.

At least 9 out of 10 times, the rides during the first session look a lot like trying to ride a wild horse. There are a few exceptions - one gifted longboard racer had multiple controlled flights for 100-200 meters in his very first runs. But he was the absolute exception; perhaps the foil feeling was quite similar to railing the longboard upwind, or maybe he's just wicked talented. A more typical story is the ~ 70-year old windsurfer lady that tried my gear a few times, after getting some tips from me. She's a good windsurfer, but the only previous foil experience was getting pulled behind a motor boat a few minutes, with quick crashes every time she started foiling. On my gear, she managed to get a few semi-controlled rides the first time she tried: coming up on the foil for ~ 50 meters, then touching down without loosing speed, going up again, and repeating this a few times. She loved it. Her second session looked pretty similar.

I'm a somewhat slow learner, and just looked back at all my early foil session in my log. Here are some comments:

Session 1:"Got some very short runs, very interesting, must do that again."

Session 3: "Started to get some control." (this was on easier gear in good conditions)

Session 6: "Fully powered on the foil. First time going upwind (easy) and downwind (scary), first 2 jibes (one by accident, one planned). Fun!" My longest foil run in this session was about 500 m, all other runs were a lot shorter. The long run probably included a number of light touchdowns (easy to handle on the Slingshot Flyer).

Session 12: "Foiled 99% of the time. Lots of crashes but fun." The wind picked up from 20 to 25 mph gusting 30 during this session. This was the first time where I was flying for most of the session.

I'd say my progress is about average, compared to others I have seen. It definitely helped to have ABK Boardsports instruction and gear for the first sessions, but someone who is younger and/or learns faster may progress faster. Someone who is on unbalanced gear will have a much harder time. Someone learning in poorer conditions will likely progress more slowly.

But assuming that the gear is setup correctly, and that the conditions are somewhat reasonable, the biggest thing is time on the water. I cannot imagine anyone learning to foil with 12 sessions spread out over 2 years. Every spring, I see plenty of windsurfers who have not sailed for a few months, and need a few days before they remember how to jibe dry. There are also many windsurfers who only sail a couple of weeks a year during vacation, and their progress is generally very slow, even if they take 5-day windsurfing camps. Part of the issue is muscle memory, part is confidence, which comes with experience. I can't see how a regular learner can build either to the necessary levels with a few sessions spread over many months. I can't see how one could get halfway decent in any new sport with that low level of commitment. This is where the word "delusion" actually applies.

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sunsetsailboards said..
I also say this because if you want to learn to foil, I think our local spot, Candlestick, is about as good as it gets. The water is flat, the wind by most standards is not that gusty, and there's always a puff to get you going. I learned to windfoil and wingfoil at Da Stick as you know, and I suggest our spot to anybody looking to get into foiling. My girlfriend loves winging at Da Stick!

Wow, that does look nice and flat! The biggest issue about foiling there might be that it looks like an awful lot of fun for windsurfing

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boardsurfr said..

sunsetsailboards said..
I also say this because if you want to learn to foil, I think our local spot, Candlestick, is about as good as it gets. The water is flat, the wind by most standards is not that gusty, and there's always a puff to get you going. I learned to windfoil and wingfoil at Da Stick as you know, and I suggest our spot to anybody looking to get into foiling. My girlfriend loves winging at Da Stick!

Wow, that does look nice and flat! The biggest issue about foiling there might be that it looks like an awful lot of fun for windsurfing

It is nice spot! First video are typical conditions for our "season": early Spring to Summer, 4.2-4.7 B&J or 1-2 meters bigger slalom gear. The second video is a (very good) end of season, mid September-October day: 6.5-7.3 slalom (for my 160 pounds). Water conditions are never really a problem for foiling at that spot, it only gets a bit of a swell in the not too unfrequent 3.7-4.2 days. During the season (video one) it is obviously far from being a good place to learn foiling, unless you go in the morning before the wind picks up.

So let's sum this up. Duzzy, your 790 is just about the best overall foil you can get. Keep it.

On whatever board and sail you are using, make sure to get everything balanced. Get help if necessary. Front wing at the mid point between front and back feet (or footstraps if you use them), and something like 42" from mast track to front fin screw. Start there.

Foil with a 6.0-ish sized sail in 15-17 mph winds. Of course, you don't want gusty. Goes without saying.

Give this 10--as in TEN--sessions. It takes that long to get the muscle memory of how to control the pitch and roll of the board. Be patient.

Foiling in crazy gusty conditions is a nightmare, but you can learn how to do it. Since I live up in the far east end of the gorge, if I foil down at Celilo or Rufus, or even the Event Site, I have had to learn how to control the gusts. IT IS HUGELY DIFFERENT FROM SLAPPING IN GUSTS. This is part of that muscle memory thing. I can do it, but I don't enjoy it. Steady is always better.

Find a spot that offers steady-ish winds. (I have never encountered gusty winds at Rio Vista for the dozen or so times I have gone down there.)

If you can get away for a road trip in the summer, go north. Try Magic's spots at Klamath or Odell. Or go another 4 hours to ze Gorge where you have a choice of a dozen spots to try. If the gorge corridor is too strong or gusty, go east. My three spots out in the Columbia Basin are always lighter than the corridor, but I also get spoiled with mostly steady winds.

If you can get away for a road trip in the winter, go south. Baja has the steadiest winds I have ever encountered.