The wingers are all doing foiling tacks now. If we are no Balz, is it possible to do it too on freeride/freestyle gear eventually? Helitack or ducktack, which would be easier?

Saw on my insta feed recently a not Balz reel of foiling helitack. Looks easier than the duck tack. It is on my my list.
How about you go first and report back your learning curve
PS; I think @thedoor has been attempting. He might chime in....

I wouldn't say 'all wingers' are doing foiling tacks. WinGing is easier than winDfoiling, but from what I have discussed with my winGing buddies, foil tack is quite an accomplishement.

As for wich technique to choose in your winDfoil tack quest, I would suggest what you are able to do with a windsurf.
I can helitack (and improving my technique) a windsurf, and I can make the first part of a foiling helitack. But I think it would be necessary to first be able to foil backwinded a little while and probably also switched for a significant while to foil out of the tack.
Duck tack looks way more challenging IMHO. Probably as demanding as ducking backwinded.
I thought of push tack, but I doubt one could foil out of it as it kills quite a lot of speed.

Hang on I am still working on my 360s.

Currently at about 5% success rate for foiling heli-tacks. Hopefully I can ramp this up to 99% in the next year.

Foiling duck tack ratio is currently zero/many.

All the kids on IQfoils do foiling tacks now.
I wouldn't see why they couldn't do it on freeride/freestyle gear.

Def not possible for non-balz . Maybe if you can already do planning entry duck tacks....I am two seasons in trying to learn how to duck.

Re: heli tack the entry seems promising but that rig flip is hella challenging, kinda feels like you need to be all the way around to broad reach before trying to flip.

I imagine upwind 360s are gonna be very helpful to learn the heli tack at least. Can't do those either

I think the thing with IQ is they use the heavy rig to load the tail of the board so they can get around the front and stay flying. Not saying they are not legends but I don't see those kids getting around the mast on a 100L board with a 3.7

^also the stability of the long fuse on the iqfoil makes a difference I imagine. My freeride setup is way touchier

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jdfoils said..
Currently at about 5% success rate for foiling heli-tacks. Hopefully I can ramp this up to 99% in the next year.

Foiling duck tack ratio is currently zero/many.

Wow that's awesome! How about some tips from you then!

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thedoor said..
Def not possible for non-balz . Maybe if you can already do planning entry duck tacks....I am two seasons in trying to learn how to duck.

Re: heli tack the entry seems promising but that rig flip is hella challenging, kinda feels like you need to be all the way around to broad reach before trying to flip.

I imagine upwind 360s are gonna be very helpful to learn the heli tack at least. Can't do those either

I think the thing with IQ is they use the heavy rig to load the tail of the board so they can get around the front and stay flying. Not saying they are not legends but I don't see those kids getting around the mast on a 100L board with a 3.7

I agree the further you turn away from the wind on the new tack the lighter the flip is. Upwind 360's are a great cross trainer. It's been so cool watching the IQ sailors first learn and then refine their technique. I have heard they break a lot of lower battens throwing the rig back like that.

Notice he throws some upwind 360's in this video and when he tacks in a gust he flips at dead down wind.
I have found his tip of "Pull,Push,Flip" to be useful.
You need the Pull to hook you into and just past head to wind. Make sure you feel the foot of the sail touch your shin.
The Push immediately after the Pull is Essential to stay in control, turn the board away from the wind and to start creating much needed drive force as soon as you can to help keep you in the air.
The great thing about the heli is it super useful for tacking in displacement mode, much easier than a fast tack especially if you have a no-nose designed foil board. Everything you learn doing the move on the water applies to the foiling maneuver.
I have been hammering away at this move for years now. I can make touch and go heli's about 90% of the time.

When I started learning the 360 I tried a couple of helitacks as well, without giving it much thought. Some felt quite in control, but still messed it up and stopped every time. Now, looking at the Balz clip above I think I know what I did wrong. Should have postponed the sail flip a bit and should have tried to gather some speed again while still riding backwinded.

4 tack attempts here in this (not too long) clip.

Enjoyable thread as been dabbling with the heli-tack and upwind 360s as well. Can do fin based windsurf ones but need to un-learn the front to sail part of the upwind 360 as you come off the plane and go from heel carving into being on the toes and helping the downwind rail slide and spin around away from the wind. Obviously with the foil any toe pressure (if you're still flying) means carving back up into the wind so I guess I need to concentrate on keeping heel pressure foil carve engaged and also somehow get front to sail in a strong position. Guess I really need to keep the front to sail part as short as possible and aggressively carve away from the wind. Or, maybe get through head to wind, ride front to sail on the foil for a bit to stabilize then carve downwind and enjoy the "wham" as the clew goes through the wind and the 360 completes. I usually get past head to wind then either get slammed or trapped half rotated with the board dead in the water.All thread entries are helping however!

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utcminusfour said..

Notice he throws some upwind 360's in this video and when he tacks in a gust he flips at dead down wind.
I have found his tip of "Pull,Push,Flip" to be useful.
You need the Pull to hook you into and just past head to wind. Make sure you feel the foot of the sail touch your shin.
The Push immediately after the Pull is Essential to stay in control, turn the board away from the wind and to start creating much needed drive force as soon as you can to help keep you in the air.
The great thing about the heli is it super useful for tacking in displacement mode, much easier than a fast tack especially if you have a no-nose designed foil board. Everything you learn doing the move on the water applies to the foiling maneuver.
I have been hammering away at this move for years now. I can make touch and go heli's about 90% of the time.

www.instagram.com/p/DLh-cC6M4iN
Anyone know this rockstar? Is he a Seabreezer? Maybe he can give us some tips? I like how he switches feet with the sail flip.

Here's an old clip of me working on the foiling Heli-tack.
www.instagram.com/p/CsTwte0vAA8/
I'm not much further along than this now, but I've learned a few things since. In the beginning, the board always wanted to roll over to the inside of the turn once I passed head to wind. You'll see I was doing a little back-foot hop there to counter that rolling moment-DON'T COPY THAT! I noticed Balz used to do the same thing in his early videos, but as he has refined it, he doesn't anymore. What I've figured out is that if I push against the backed sail as soon as I cross head to wind, it stops the roll-over. Lately I've been focusing on blending the Pull and the Push into one continuous movement, with no pause between them. The Pull helps get your COG get back over the board to balance the Push. When I get that right, I don't need to move the back foot at all, the turn rate stays steady, and everything just works better. I wish I had a good recent one on film. Another key tip (from Andy Brandt) is do not look at the sail when it flips, keep looking where you want to go.


Don't' be afraid to try!
It's the sail that flips fast, not you! You just stand there and let the sail go forward to flip in front of you. It's really not that scary or hard, start on a long board and work your way up, when you can do it on the water with your foil board you always have an easy way to tack. I have taken way more lumps learning to DW 360. When you biff on the heli you typically get blown over backwards away from the gear. On the DW 360 I have landed on the gear so many times now. The heli is not a "trick" like 360's it is a great way to TACK and that is a fundamental of sailing.

jdfoils- Share your knowledge please and thank you!

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jstone1 said..
Enjoyable thread as been dabbling with the heli-tack and upwind 360s as well. Can do fin based windsurf ones but need to un-learn the front to sail part of the upwind 360 as you come off the plane and go from heel carving into being on the toes and helping the downwind rail slide and spin around away from the wind. Obviously with the foil any toe pressure (if you're still flying) means carving back up into the wind so I guess I need to concentrate on keeping heel pressure foil carve engaged and also somehow get front to sail in a strong position. Guess I really need to keep the front to sail part as short as possible and aggressively carve away from the wind. Or, maybe get through head to wind, ride front to sail on the foil for a bit to stabilize then carve downwind and enjoy the "wham" as the clew goes through the wind and the 360 completes. I usually get past head to wind then either get slammed or trapped half rotated with the board dead in the water.All thread entries are helping however!

I have been dabbling in the transition from back wind to gybe and pushing clew thru the eye of the wind which I guess is where it gets tough with you upwind 360. I am often able to get around but drop off foil

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utcminusfour said..

Notice he throws some upwind 360's in this video and when he tacks in a gust he flips at dead down wind.
I have found his tip of "Pull,Push,Flip" to be useful.
You need the Pull to hook you into and just past head to wind. Make sure you feel the foot of the sail touch your shin.
The Push immediately after the Pull is Essential to stay in control, turn the board away from the wind and to start creating much needed drive force as soon as you can to help keep you in the air.
The great thing about the heli is it super useful for tacking in displacement mode, much easier than a fast tack especially if you have a no-nose designed foil board. Everything you learn doing the move on the water applies to the foiling maneuver.
I have been hammering away at this move for years now. I can make touch and go heli's about 90% of the time.

Here are some more OCD observations.
When the frame rate seems real time either move (uw 360 or heli) takes 3-5 seconds.
It seems when he plans on a UW 360 he is in the back strap and when he plans on a heli he has his back foot free. At 1:43 I think he reached for a 360, got overpowered and finished with a heli to save it. Other than that, every time he flips the sail and makes it a heli his back foot is out of the strap for the whole move.
It's a super grey line between the two moves.

?si=LD3mEJRgZTmBKA7D

Related video.

IMHO, the difficult move is slicing the sail into the wind keeping your weigth aft. When I helitack with a finboard, I definitly change my weight forward to manage the sail when getting backwinded (really extending forward arm and keeping the sail unpowered).
I believe you need to shift your hands significantly back on the boom so you can lean the mast into the wind, but staying uprigth on the foil. And then when you flip the sail, the front hand have to shift toward the mast while the sail fly/flip into the wind (and still managing your blance on the foil)
That's a lot of skill to build up !

Getting closer today, first time properly flying the foil through the head to wind and transition of raked back to pushed forward. I'm probably being too aggressive, brain in fin version mode. Need to focus on the sail forward push (perhaps like starting a duck tack move with sail neutral but never ducking) and also keeping the foil carving through and away from the wind. Water and air starting the get colder here so probably not best of time of year to start learning this!

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jstone1 said..
Getting closer today, first time properly flying the foil through the head to wind and transition of raked back to pushed forward. I'm probably being too aggressive, brain in fin version mode. Need to focus on the sail forward push (perhaps like starting a duck tack move with sail neutral but never ducking) and also keeping the foil carving through and away from the wind. Water and air starting the get colder here so probably not best of time of year to start learning this!

Nice one. Helitack sounds like