With all the cool kids riding wind wings with sliding mast tracks for the foils Inwas wondering why we don't see forward mounted Windfoil masts. The obvious advantage to moving the mast forward is reduced leverage for the front wing making the fuselage shorter and stiffer.
I can only assume the forward mast would perhaps compromise yaw stability???
Has anyone tried wind foiling with a wind wing foil ?

Am using sabfoil wings on windfoil fuse. Same wings used for winging. Run the mast about 8cm further forward towards UJ than I did on previous set up with tuttle. For me it enables a more upright stance for manoeuvrability also helps with popping up on to foil in light wind.

I think it's not that much the mast placement on the fuselage (closer or further away from the front wing), than the minimum required length of the fuselage that's important for making the wind foiling setup comfortable to ride. Ca 90 cm fuselage (measured from the leading edge of the front wing until the end of the fuse) is quite optimal for wind foiling, and going way shorter into 65 or 70 cm range (like the wing foil fuselages mostly are) makes the ride quite a bit more nervous. Possible to get used to for sure, but you'd need to put some time in.

I have tried the MFC Hydros setup with a sail. While a sweet foil with a wing, it was not easy to wind foil with that. The first things you'll sacrifice when trying is the low wind comfort of riding, and the ability to go faster. Better to have plenty of wind, with a small sail, go slow and get used to the nervous feeling, and then report back how it felt.

The final comfortable foil placement was a bit further forward than on that picture.


I am sure some other front and back wing setup might work way better when used with a short fuselage. Some wider stabiliser for example, and a front wing that's not so agile and willing to turn all the time as the Hydros.

There are some folks here that windfoil on a short surf fuse, it can be done. Short fuses typically have the front wing closer to the mast like you are curious about. Because of the variable downforce at the mast base Windfoil prefers more pitch stability than these fuses create.

I have been curious about windfoiling on pumpfoil setups and tried a friend's Axis 1310 on a very short fuse. The pitch issues were there but manageable for me I think because the front wing was so large in area and I had the sail close to the foil. It felt nose heavy when the sail was loaded and my back foot was further back on the board to compensate. Sure you can bring the sail and foil closer together to compensate for this but controlling yaw gets tricky.

I typically ride a 90cm fuse but with a very short distance between the sail and foil, 24-29" sail to front foil bolt. I started this because the board I was riding would only allow for this. It took a while to adjust to the yaw instability but then I learned to love it because it mellows the influence mast base load has on pitch but makes for very quick turns that fit the small waves I ride better.

I would not want to shorten the distance between the sail and foil much more than where I am at to compensate for having the front wing close to the mast because it would be too cramped like when you put your sail on a short skateboard. Of course there is nothing wrong with moving aft on the board to compensate. At the moment I am not looking to shrink fuse length because it can hurt upwind ability but I will keep a open mind and still play with it when I can in case there are things overlooked.

If anything I want to try moving the front wing forward like the race kits in an effort to make it more front footed and improve windward ability. Hess has tried this with a fuse in the high 80 something range and has favorable results. I think it works for him because the shorter fuse turns better but by moving the wing forward he still keeps good upwind performance.

David Ezzy messed with shortening his fuse length but kept the front wing in the same spot. He said with each reduction in length the turning improved but upwind ability got worse.

The fun for me is wave riding and sailing off the wind, the catch is you gotta get up to get down so I alway work at improving my upwind vmg.

The mechanics of winD is more tricky to balance than the winG :
you need to balance the pitch with the sail pushing the board down.
you need to balance lateral force to balance yaw. UJ pushing the board up wind, feet of rider pushing downwind and mast pushing upwind (lateral force as with a fin)

When you move the mast forward, you either have to compensate lateral (yaw) balance either by :
incrinsing lateral angle of attack (not very good as it generate more drag and reduce wing efficiency, can also result in uncontrollable roll).
reducing lateral force of the rig (smaller sail or shhet out).
placing uj further back (can not always be done)

If you think of better turn ability, I have had very impressive result (espacially with larger HA wing) with reducing the stab width. I had to shim the smaller stab, but the foil felt surprisingly roll reactive.

I am using an axis short (703mm) fuse on my Tabou pocket air. It is pitch sensitive, particularly in overpowered conditions when going upwind becomes difficult. For lighter conditions it allows a bigger front wing making getting on foil easy but still fun turns. HPS 880/425p wings. As people have noted before I ride this set up with the back foot behind the mast.

A setup with a short fuselage and a huge stabiliser here in this clip @ 08:35

My current freeride setup has the mast quite rearward due to the foil geometry. The fuse is 96cm but has the front wing 340mm forward of the mast leading edge. I am going to do a new shorter fuse with the front wing closer to the mast. I am actually running the foil the same distance from the tail as I was on the Stingray 140 ( in the background) but the mast foot is considerably further back closer to the front straps.
To run the mast forward you need to have the suitable foil geometry and or run your straps further forward from the tail.

I have a new mast coming with a better US base so I dont have to use the gumpy Tuttle adapter. I made a fairing at the front to make it a bit more hydrodynamic but its still like you have the handbrake on when getting up on the foil or touching down compared to a proper tuttle box. This is the downside of US track, the extra drag.

And I forgot to add how much fun the small comapct board is, its like riding a skateboard. The first time I jumped on it and went upwind it felt super loose and I was a bit tentative but as soon as I turned it downwind in the 1.5 meter swell I went....wow, this thing is awesome...so loose. The longer I rode it and settled into the feel the bigger my smile got. If you are into swell riding bite the bullet and get a compact board, you will love it.