So first thanks to all the advice I got last year from everyone on the next size down in sail size from a 5.8 Aerotech Freespeed, went with a 4.5 Aerotech Phantom. Wanted it for those 20-25+ knots days. AFS W95 foil with F1080, F770, and S670 wings, Goya Bolt 135 board.

20-25+ knots:
Overpowered on a 5.8 Freespeed with min. downhaul, in 2-3+ foot waves, kinda crazy with the 5.8 becoming so overpowered at times that I had to stop to let the strongest gusts pass by. With the AFS F1080 wing would foil out and crash occasionally, on the F770 wing much better control and able to use front foot pressure to keep foil in the water, but still was close to foiling out regularly in the peak gusts. For either setup got up effortlessly by just sheeting in. Knew it was blowing hard from the wind pressure on the sail and the reaction of the foil to the gusts, as well as the water.

Normal powered on a 4.5 Phantom with min. downhaul and AFS S670 wing, from a foiling standpoint kit was easy to control, never even close to foiling out, needed to use some techniques I learned at Andy Brandt's camp to get up in the waves. Unlike the 5.8 Freespeed sail which provided balance and support in tacks, the 4.5 Phantom provided no support in a tack until I got all the way around, and that took getting used to. But here is the thing, mentally the normal powered kit really took getting used to because while the wind was ripping and so was the water, I felt perfectly in control while carving down into the deeper 3+ foot troughs while flying across the bay. So there was this disconnect between the conditions and how my kit handled, because I was always used to foiling overpowered until now.

Are you saying that you were making it work with too much sail, but did not realize you had too much sail until you tried the 4.5 in the same conditions?

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thedoor said..
Are you saying that you were making it work with too much sail, but did not realize you had too much sail until you tried the 4.5 in the same conditions?

yes, the 5.8 was my smallest sail at the time, and made it work to low 20's, but knew around 24-25 it got way overloaded to the point of not being usable, so that is why I got the 4.5, but then realized with the 4.5 that what I thought was a good range for the 5.8 (up to low 20's) was still way overpowered. Certainly had a lot of heart racing runs with the 5.8!

And not just the sail, the wing too.

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Sandman1221 said..

thedoor said..
Are you saying that you were making it work with too much sail, but did not realize you had too much sail until you tried the 4.5 in the same conditions?

yes, the 5.8 was my smallest sail at the time, and made it work to low 20's, but knew around 24-25 it got way overloaded to the point of not being usable, so that is why I got the 4.5, but then realized with the 4.5 that what I thought was a good range for the 5.8 (up to low 20's) was still way overpowered. Certainly had a lot of heart racing runs with the 5.8!

And not just the sail, the wing too.

sweet

Starting to figure out the Phantom 4.5 sail and S670 wing, sitting on the water hard to maneuver board with the small sail and wing, need to pump right away to get up if underpowered, and for tacks need to head hard upwind on the foil before coming down and tacking. Can not push board around the tack with the smaller sail and maybe small wing affects tack too.

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Sandman1221 said..
Starting to figure out the Phantom 4.5 sail and S670 wing, sitting on the water hard to maneuver board with the small sail and wing, need to pump right away to get up if underpowered, and for tacks need to head hard upwind on the foil before coming down and tacking. Can not push board around the tack with the smaller sail and maybe small wing affects tack too.

Life is a lot easier if you jibe in those conditions. Again, having a wing that is comfortable to jibe makes it a lot easier. If overpowered, bear off deep, find a lull, flip around to the other side and off you go. If you are underpowered, keep an eye out for patches on the water that have more pressure and wait to jibe there. Even if you are going upwind, jibe each transition. Plus, with practice, it's possible to foil jibe in winds too light to pump up on the foil.

I'm not morally opposed to tacking but if conditions or board size make it difficult to get going again, I'll much prefer to jibe to stay flying.

In 20-25 knots you could easily take a 3.5 or so out, try that next time, I think a world of joy would open up for you!

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Paducah said..

Sandman1221 said..
Starting to figure out the Phantom 4.5 sail and S670 wing, sitting on the water hard to maneuver board with the small sail and wing, need to pump right away to get up if underpowered, and for tacks need to head hard upwind on the foil before coming down and tacking. Can not push board around the tack with the smaller sail and maybe small wing affects tack too.

Life is a lot easier if you jibe in those conditions. Again, having a wing that is comfortable to jibe makes it a lot easier. If overpowered, bear off deep, find a lull, flip around to the other side and off you go. If you are underpowered, keep an eye out for patches on the water that have more pressure and wait to jibe there. Even if you are going upwind, jibe each transition. Plus, with practice, it's possible to foil jibe in winds too light to pump up on the foil.

I'm not morally opposed to tacking but if conditions or board size make it difficult to get going again, I'll much prefer to jibe to stay flying.

Yeah, I agree, a jibe would be better in strong winds, but do not have it down in light winds so hesitant to try in strong winds. And the 2'-3' waves add another level of complexity to it, but today looks like a good day to try! The S670 wing does feel very comfortable in the gusts and waves, whereas the F800/F1080 is very reactive to gusts, and throw in 2'-3' waves which make me have to adjust board hight, and it will try to breach.

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WhiteofHeart said..
In 20-25 knots you could easily take a 3.5 or so out, try that next time, I think a world of joy would open up for you!

That is what I was thinking, had 4.5 sail sheeted pretty far out for the gusts but I was not pushing it, and to go to a smaller sail need another mast/boom and this is the normal max we see, so will see. Though, I am still getting used to the S670 wing, very sensitive to rider input, would like to see how it does sheeted in going hard upwind, AFS reported it hitting 29-34 knots VMG.