After living through the pain and suffering from my lis franc injury in May where I ended up with 4 fractures and torn ligaments in my foot after a fall off the foil (foot got trapped in the front strap) I realised that one area of windsurfing that hasn't evolved at all in the past 20+ years is the foot straps.

During the enforced layoff I resolved to do something on this front and more so as I felt very tentative when starting to sail again a few weeks ago around footstraps ....as you'd expect but this isn't great if you want to resume normal sailing.
So what are the options - my thoughts were:-
1- No straps
2- Half/ hook straps
3- Modified std straps or new design

No straps . Ok tried the no-straps approach and will be honest really didn't like it especially in terms of the front strap as felt a bit disconnected and struggled to pump the board onto the foil without that front foot in the strap feel, plus felt harder to go upwind. I Do believe though you can get away without the back strap and no back strap is good when you're going down wind as you can put your rear foot anywhere across the board

Half/ hook straps. Bought and tried the quite expensive slingshot hook straps for all 4 spots on the board. I Tried the rear straps in both orientations ( facing forwards/ backwards). I Really tried to like these straps in the front positions but even with the expensive wedges + with booties they feel extremely hard, uncomfortable and don't give that strap feel at all. In the rear position I tried them facing both directions and certainly they are much better facing with the open side forwards ( swindy/ Sean others had noted this on another thread) and I've mitigated the horrible hard / sharp feeling by adding some modified covers to them using some old tabou straps covers. This I believe is a great option for the rear straps.

A note of caution re these straps when using the wedges (& to answer your question ITA62) don't install the upper wedges when using the half straps on the jp foil boards as the countersunk holes mean the screws provided are to short and you strip the plastic out of the board...

Modified Straps. This is an area I've put some effort into as I believed could re- engineer the straps a little around the Velcro part. I looked at a few scenarios and calculated the anticipated forces on the foot in potential injury cases ie force from a dead stop fall, force required to break the foot bones and force the foot can exert upwards on the strap. I also then did some digging on Velcro shear strength (kg/cm2) and then checked it with a fishing scale.... to calc a range of Velcro length / area required to give a 2 times safety factor on an injury and what this means in terms of Velcro area ...net result was 60-120mm of 30mm wide Velcro is all that is required ......considerably less than a normal strap has !

Based on this I had Jesper at WA sail repair modify some new straps with a basically a break section of Velcro separate to the Velcro for the strap adjustment with the idea being this portion would fail in a fall before an injury. Initially I tried 60mm of length per picture below ie 30mm top and bottom- this wasn't a success with the straps breaking frequently just with the upward force of the feet manoeuvring the board.

Next trial I went to 50mm wide Velcro and 60mm long and blanked it out so actual gripping length was 40mm to begin with - this worked well ie didn't break but when inadvertently has a decent fall it didn't release either so I tried reducing if further ie blanked top section out and just ran with bottom section at 40mm surprisingly this worked well for a 1.5hr foil session. Interesting observation here is the extra width seems to allow the strap to move on the Velcro to the sailing angle your foot wants and having the Velcro on the bottom is perhaps all that is required see pictures

Hopefully conditions suit a foil tomorrow as will trial 30mm long by 50mm wide only on the bottom to see how short I can go before it breaks the Velcro grip as think this will be now a trial an error approach to get to the minimum length/width that is just past where normal sailing causes it to fail and hence will protect against the dreaded foot injury. I've also made some more straps up to start trialling on my free ride board as well..

Stay tuned .

hook straps with extra covers



Half strap forward facing with cover

Modified std Strap with 30mm Velcro either side for failsafe
www.seabreeze.com.au/img/photos/windsurfing/14684372.jpg' />

Modified strap with 60mm top and bottom

Modified strap with top blanked and 40mm on bottom


Testing velcro

Issue when using wedges with hook strap on jp board

A workable solution is straps at a freestyle setting.

Perhaps .. but I think you need the strap to fail before your foot regardless

Also apoloigies forgot to add a shot last night of where I've ende up ie hook straps at rear with extra covers and modified std straps in front two positions

Cool idea. I saw in your first post you mentioned booties, do you wear them all the time? It is much more difficult for your foot to come out of the straps when you wear booties, the friction particularly when the loads are high is much higher than just skin. The only time i've ever had my foot get stuck was wearing booties, I try to avoid it at all costs...which I can get away with in NSW as it's not too cold in winter, you also don't get the feel.

I come from a wave/freestyle background so strap settings are pretty important (as Leed mentioned) if you don't want to grenade your ankles. Generally a wave/FS setup is a looser strap but set to the right width of your foot so the strap is actually almost pinching your foot where it touches the board. This basically means you have to curl you toes to stop your foot coming out and makes it super easy to bail the gear on a failed trick. It also gives you a lot of angle flexibility and if everything goes south your foot will just come out (well i've never had an issue). Wearing booties, different story, I find it super sketchy.

That said given your injury I can understand you approaching all options and look forward to how the blow out straps evolve. Couldn't bring myself to use the half straps, when foiling (racing anyway) I find I need complete control of the board and no way I'd get that with the half straps, even rear only.

Thanks cjw/ leeD ( apologies re slight misunderstanding previously) now 100% understood re free style setup will adjust the modified strap set up now to be tighter width wise - this seems to be good idea

Agree re booties really don't like them at all but have had to wear one on the injured foot else I've been wearing the skin off the top of my foot that is directly above the plate that is still screwed into the bone ... booties seem to stop this happening but a lot harder to get foot in and out of strap as you say

more guys are going full strapless around here, (I can't.... I really need the locked front foot feeling)
Jean Lou Colmas (on the pic) goes full speed strapless, he says booties are enough to get a good grip and strapless allows the most precise tuning (foot position)

Just freeriding or full on racing? I mean mad props if he's racing but sounds like a recipe for disaster to me and it prevents you from sailing the board in certain ways that are advantageous

Also lol at the kiter in the top right of that pic, standard kook behaviour

Jean Lou is in a league of his own, full on racing strapless, he's also been chopping/welding fuselages/wings/boards for a year now.
It sometimes goes wrong for him, but geez, the guy is 66 and has no self preservation instinct !



Yes the kiter (titouan galea) is a bit of a show off (but he's bloody good....) and he's quite far behind the windsurfers.
www.facebook.com/titou.galea/videos/1254703691338607/

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seanhogan said..
Jean Lou is in a league of his own, full on racing strapless, he's also been chopping/welding fuselages/wings/boards for a year now.
It sometimes goes wrong for him, but geez, the guy is 66 and has no self preservation instinct !



Yes the kiter (titouan galea) is a bit of a show off (but he's bloody good....) and he's quite far behind the windsurfers.
www.facebook.com/titou.galea/videos/1254703691338607/

Crazy hang time..

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Adam555 said..
Agree re booties really don't like them at all but have had to wear one on the injured foot else I've been wearing the skin off the top of my foot that is directly above the plate that is still screwed into the bone ... booties seem to stop this happening but a lot harder to get foot in and out of strap as you say

I have a similar problem, I had a broken foot (not ws related) and now I have a bump on top right under footstrap. Instead of booties, I wrap this place with a duct tape. You need to wrap around the whole foot, maybe even twice otherwise it will fall off. On the bottom go behind the ball of the foot to preserve traction. The best tape for me is the 3M vinyl duct tape, because it's soft and flexible so it gives niece tight fit.

Not me but this is how it looks like:

Quick update
So I've been experimenting with the quick release engineered straps I posted pictures of previously now since the beginning of December with lots of sailing ( we've had a good summer so far!!) both on the foil board and on a free ride board (rocket) and am very comfortable now with around 50mm Velcro only on the bottom side of the strap this regularly releases in the event of a fall (yes preemptive fail!) or during a fall and is super easy to reattach in the water.

The reverse mounted half straps on the foil board ( rear straps) are also a 100% success and make getting in the foot in the rear strap so easy plus the easy movement of the back foot when going down wind etc with the 1/2 strap is an added benefit. I thought the 1/2 straps wouldn't given the locked in feel but they're fine as long as the std straps are used for the front foot

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Adam555 said..
Quick update
So I've been experimenting with the quick release engineered straps I posted pictures of previously now since the beginning of December with lots of sailing ( we've had a good summer so far!!) both on the foil board and on a free ride board (rocket) and am very comfortable now with around 50mm Velcro only on the bottom side of the strap this regularly releases in the event of a fall (yes preemptive fail!) or during a fall and is super easy to reattach in the water.

The reverse mounted half straps on the foil board ( rear straps) are also a 100% success and make getting in the foot in the rear strap so easy plus the easy movement of the back foot when going down wind etc with the 1/2 strap is an added benefit. I thought the 1/2 straps wouldn't given the locked in feel but they're fine as long as the std straps are used for the front foot

Adam, great idea with velcro!

Did you try to install half straps in opposite direction? Both front and rear. Screw side forward, open side backward.
I'm envisioning this will help to get good fix for foots while flying and pumping.
When you fall your foots should be turning backward and sleep out easily.
I believe the problem with normal 2-point straps is that during fall/catapult feet turn backward and got stuck in the straps, especially in front one.

I've found that, paradoxically, kiter's deep straps are better in this regard. While they give better hold and control during riding, they do not prevent foot to sleep out, because "finger" edge of strap is farther and when foot is turned, "finger" edge does not "bite" the foot preventing it to slip out.

Also liner material of straps should be slippery smooth. Old straps with broken came off liner and opened foam have high friction and are dangerous.
Also booties, if you have to wear them, should not have rubber details on upper and sides that would prevent foot to sleep out of strap.

Did you guys tried SS half straps V2? They advertised to be cushier, sturdier ...

For easy release you could always try NSI stick-on footstrap pads. I use those to relocate front footstraps more inboard for freestyle foiling on my formula boards.

If I am in the footstraps on big crashes, they pop up off the board. Usually one end or the other, never both. It is a hassle to reattach them, but at least they save my feet.

To reattach them you have to go back to the beach, dry and clean the attach area, and use a new piece(s) of 3M automotive exterior trim tape. This is the same tape that originally comes on the pads. You can get it at automotive parts stores. This 3M tape is gray with a red peel.

Velcro can loosen over time. I think a well engineered connection using neodymium magnets on one end of the strap could work very nicely.

The problem is that I think you need to be able to pull up with the toes using more force than it takes the injure the foot when bent the other way. That's a guess however.

I did exactly the same injury in June 2019. after 6 months off the water I sailed last week for the first time. I have opted for dakine foot hooks front and back on my wizard 125. I agree that this set up on the rear is a huge success. the front was OK but will take a bit of getting used to. I was thinking about trying to combine a kite board footbed with a foot hook on the front for a more definite foot position. I will let you know if I do this and how it works out.
My surgeon here in the UK has had a quite a bit of experience with windsurfers lis franc injuries and has recommended that I now have the plate removed as it has done its job. I am booked in for that on Jan 7th.
I damaged my foot sailing a waveboard in about 35knots in nasty choppy conditions. I fell forward and my front foot failed to come out of the straps. I have been sailing for over 30 years and had the straps set up loose. I was wearing boots at the time. It has been a tough injury to recover from. still, onwards and upwards!

I still like to run straps. Feels more secure and better for pumping. When carving downwind I take my back foot out. However, I did tweak my toe joint in late August. I was taking my foot out of the back strap and being lazy or maybe too confident; didnt rasie my big foot high enough and cought a toe on the strap it was overlapping the toe next to it when I came down on it. It's still sore today but only bugs me when flexing it all the way up or down. It's silly in my case how long it take a toe to heel.

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segler said..
For easy release you could always try NSI stick-on footstrap pads. I use those to relocate front footstraps more inboard for freestyle foiling on my formula boards.

If I am in the footstraps on big crashes, they pop up off the board. Usually one end or the other, never both. It is a hassle to reattach them, but at least they save my feet.

To reattach them you have to go back to the beach, dry and clean the attach area, and use a new piece(s) of 3M automotive exterior trim tape. This is the same tape that originally comes on the pads. You can get it at automotive parts stores. This 3M tape is gray with a red peel.

These look like a great idea and perfect for inboard mounting of the straps

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nimo1972 said..
I did exactly the same injury in June 2019. after 6 months off the water I sailed last week for the first time. I have opted for dakine foot hooks front and back on my wizard 125. I agree that this set up on the rear is a huge success. the front was OK but will take a bit of getting used to. I was thinking about trying to combine a kite board footbed with a foot hook on the front for a more definite foot position. I will let you know if I do this and how it works out.
My surgeon here in the UK has had a quite a bit of experience with windsurfers lis franc injuries and has recommended that I now have the plate removed as it has done its job. I am booked in for that on Jan 7th.
I damaged my foot sailing a waveboard in about 35knots in nasty choppy conditions. I fell forward and my front foot failed to come out of the straps. I have been sailing for over 30 years and had the straps set up loose. I was wearing boots at the time. It has been a tough injury to recover from. still, onwards and upwards!

Hi Nimo1972

sorry to hear about your injury ! And yes takes a while to come good - lots of Physio helped me plus gym exercises. I had all the screws and plates removed after about 6-7months from memory mainly because when I started sailing again it caused a few issues ... skin above the plates kept wearing away from contact with foot straps...fixed by wearing booties plus the metal limited ankle flex as it restricted movement

On the other side Velcro modified front straps continue to be great approach for preventing further injuries on the front straps and the slingshot 1/2 straps work fantastic on the rear of the board although they seem to break every few 4-6months

keen to hear how how you get in with kite board foot bed though this is another good potential off the shelf solution

Regards

adam

There's a bloke on Perth who has been experimenting with quick click release addition to normal straps. It seemed to work well. He was thinking about selling them. I'll encourage him to post.

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Adam555 said..

nimo1972 said..
I did exactly the same injury in June 2019. after 6 months off the water I sailed last week for the first time. I have opted for dakine foot hooks front and back on my wizard 125. I agree that this set up on the rear is a huge success. the front was OK but will take a bit of getting used to. I was thinking about trying to combine a kite board footbed with a foot hook on the front for a more definite foot position. I will let you know if I do this and how it works out.
My surgeon here in the UK has had a quite a bit of experience with windsurfers lis franc injuries and has recommended that I now have the plate removed as it has done its job. I am booked in for that on Jan 7th.
I damaged my foot sailing a waveboard in about 35knots in nasty choppy conditions. I fell forward and my front foot failed to come out of the straps. I have been sailing for over 30 years and had the straps set up loose. I was wearing boots at the time. It has been a tough injury to recover from. still, onwards and upwards!

Hi Nimo1972

sorry to hear about your injury ! And yes takes a while to come good - lots of Physio helped me plus gym exercises. I had all the screws and plates removed after about 6-7months from memory mainly because when I started sailing again it caused a few issues ... skin above the plates kept wearing away from contact with foot straps...fixed by wearing booties plus the metal limited ankle flex as it restricted movement

On the other side Velcro modified front straps continue to be great approach for preventing further injuries on the front straps and the slingshot 1/2 straps work fantastic on the rear of the board although they seem to break every few 4-6months

keen to hear how how you get in with kite board foot bed though this is another good potential off the shelf solution

Regards

adam

I like the sound of the QR footsteps, good work!
I will try to sort out the footbeds ready to try in the spring (UK) I will post some photos and a progress report on here.
I am in next week to get the plate out so will now have a couple of weeks of recovery to look forward (!?) to.
looking forward to an Injury free 2020 with loads of foil time.

Originally posted by Can 17 -- "It's silly in my case how long it take(s) a toe to heel."

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you intended your above misspelling of the word "heal" as a pun. If so, it was pretty clever.

Great discussion as the risk/frequency of injury due to foiling in the straps is high.

I like the idea of releasable foot straps but believe they would have to be adjustable like on skis. And I agree that the force from regular foiling might be great enough to cause premature releases.

My pitch is that learners are better off doing so without the straps. Most Windsurfers are reluctant to try foiling because they are scared to get hurt, as they know someone that has been hurt. And most injuries are due to falling in the straps. Just would like to see more people safely enjoy foiling. I collaborated on a Windfoil Zone article some might find interesting.

www.windfoilzone.com/post/windfoiling-strapless

Let's keep the discussion going and for those of you in Australia suffering through the wildfires. The rest of us are thinking of you. Stay Safe.

I have never had a bad crash windfoiling, really none of the people I foil with have and we've all been on the foil for over 2 years minimum. We did all have broken toes, ribs, noses and even a collarbone while normal (freestyle) windsurfing. Setting your footstraps correctly is a skill, a lot of people have them too wide and flat. I you want to ride big straps you have to ride them narrow and high, its really safe that way, no way to twist the foot without coming loose.

I think a big part of why there's been no injuries, even though most of us are jumping the foils is because we are really good and understand what it takes to foil in stronger winds. None of us have ever really been overpowered in the learning stage, because our friends could advise on sailsizes, and we're all freestyle riders anyway, so accustommed to rigging relatively small. The dangerous videos I see on the net are all due to inexperience and a sail thats way too big for the windrange.

If you rig a smaller sail you'll be more in control and dont really crash that bad anyway, add the high and narrow straps to that and there's no way you're gonna get a foot injury.

Also, I think its either 2 feet in the straps or 0 when you're crashing. 1 foot in the straps make it so you can twist dangerously.

Learning without straps is making it needlessly hard on yourself, unless you are used to it from surffoiling / kitefoiling etc.

Tldr; People set their footstraps too big, you're not supposed to be in there till your armpits. Also, foiling is not dangerous at all if you're not stupid.

When I crash, I'm not sure I choose how many feet stay in the straps

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WhiteofHeart said..
Also, I think its either 2 feet in the straps or 0 when you're crashing. 1 foot in the straps make it so you can twist dangerously.

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2keen said..
When I crash, I'm not sure I choose how many feet stay in the straps

WhiteofHeart said..
Also, I think its either 2 feet in the straps or 0 when you're crashing. 1 foot in the straps make it so you can twist dangerously.

Well, if you have only frontstraps you can be pretty sure its not 2.

Hi Guys
I have done a prototype with great success. I have made a youtube video to demo.

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garyanja said..
Hi Guys
I have done a prototype with great success. I have made a youtube video to demo.

Nice one - they look promising - do you want me to test them for you?

Garyaja, looks very slick. Are you going to share how you modified them?

yeah sure...I have only made one and it works straight off.
I got lazy making more ....lets continue the testing
Give me a call +61433557563