Hi everyone

A friend just changed his race foil to a Phantom Iris, and found that the mast would not fit right in his Starboard Foil Race 100 board (same as mine). So now he ordered a Patrik 100.

Is it SB different from the rest?

What brands would fit in them?

F4?
Zfoils?
AFS?
SAB?

Or just Starboard ones?
I'm thinking that in the future I'll probably change mine, so to take this in mind is important.

For sure the first gen of SB foils (which I use) are draggier than new ones, slower, and more unstable

Thanks

I had awful trouble with my starboard foil in a RRD bboard (pocket rocket). didn't like the board anyway. Move to a JP foil board and haven't looked back.

From what I can tell, cobra manufactured boards work perfectly with the starboard foils. I can definitely say the RRD took a lot of messing to get it fitted and I was never really happy with it.

What i've found is that its generally the foil mast head thats the odd shape. All the tuttle/deep tuttle boxes are the same standard shape.

Yes and no. Some boxes have the screw hole closer at one end. For example when I fit carbon Chinook DT box to a Starboard IQ board I put the box in such that I don't have to extend the holes into a slot too far (dunno why the holes in the factory box are so elliptical?)

So my question to OP is what do you mean doesn't fit right? Doesn't at all?
Or can U just turn the barrel nuts in foil head a bit, and/or elongate the holes on the box if they are round?

The first few times getting the foil in the starboard foil tuttle was really tight and the shop helped set it up for me. But that was a starboard foil. No clue about why Phantom would be different.

+1

Supposed to be tight as hell so the taper holds it, not the bolts

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Mark _australia said..
...(dunno why the holes in the factory box are so elliptical?)

a) not all foils have the screws lined up quite to spec
b) if you shim the foil, you'll end up angling the screws anyway away from the original tuttle spec

Why so much? Probably easier than explaining to someone they need to get a file out on a brand new board because their foil is off spec.

Your other questions are spot on, imho. Didn't know if the foil was too thick, etc. Whatever the problem, ordering a new board is a radical solution for what may be a cosmetic problem. Friend got a brand new SAB Foil and the clearcoat on the mast head was too thick. He asked me for help so I got the joy of sanding his brand new mast. We measured with calipers so to avoid being too much of an idiot.

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Paducah said..

Mark _australia said..
...(dunno why the holes in the factory box are so elliptical?)

a) not all foils have the screws lined up quite to spec
b) if you shim the foil, you'll end up angling the screws anyway away from the original tuttle spec

Why so much? Probably easier than explaining to someone they need to get a file out on a brand new board because their foil is off spec.

Your other questions are spot on, imho. Didn't know if the foil was too thick, etc. Whatever the problem, ordering a new board is a radical solution for what may be a cosmetic problem. Friend got a brand new SAB Foil and the clearcoat on the mast head was too thick. He asked me for help so I got the joy of sanding his brand new mast. We measured with calipers so to avoid being too much of an idiot.

Yep. Love having to sand a new foil mast because it doesn't fit. Been there, done that.

Oh man, there is no much danger in this discussion. The design of the tuttle box is such that the only variability in the boards is the height and shape and slope of the inside roof. Same for the tuttle fitting on foil masts and fins. If the manufacturer made it right, the front and back tapers, and the left and right sides, are all the same, all per design drawing. It's just the height that varies.

Long before you start sanding your very expensive top fitting, first use something like McLube to help with the friction. Of course, you can always sand lightly to remove any high spots. But sand the shape ONLY as a last resort. I used to see a lot of very expensive formula fins get ruined this way.

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segler said..
Oh man, there is no much danger in this discussion. The design of the tuttle box is such that the only variability in the boards is the height and shape and slope of the inside roof. Same for the tuttle fitting on foil masts and fins. If the manufacturer made it right, the front and back tapers, and the left and right sides, are all the same, all per design drawing. It's just the height that varies.

Long before you start sanding your very expensive top fitting, first use something like McLube to help with the friction. Of course, you can always sand lightly to remove any high spots. But sand the shape ONLY as a last resort. I used to see a lot of very expensive formula fins get ruined this way.

"If the manufacturer made it right" In our case, somebody got overly enthusiastic with the spray gun when clear coating and the mast was way out of spec.

I appreciate that you are suggesting non-destructive methods be tried first. Alternatively, I'd say before you starting lubing up the wedge you are about to pound into your board, get a decent set of digital calipers (like we did) to see where the problem is and what you should be trying to accomplish.

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segler said..
Oh man, there is no much danger in this discussion. The design of the tuttle box is such that the only variability in the boards is the height and shape and slope of the inside roof. Same for the tuttle fitting on foil masts and fins. If the manufacturer made it right, the front and back tapers, and the left and right sides, are all the same, all per design drawing. It's just the height that varies.

Long before you start sanding your very expensive top fitting, first use something like McLube to help with the friction. Of course, you can always sand lightly to remove any high spots. But sand the shape ONLY as a last resort. I used to see a lot of very expensive formula fins get ruined this way.

Yep, very sound advice segler. Don't wan't freshman taking to their tight fitting foil heads with sandpaper before trying to get it to fit.


But in the case of mine, it was so far wrong that trying to jam it in the box would've resulted in point loading and ultimately a split box. They'd made the corners on the tapers a completely a different shape to what the corners of a foil box are. It was a case of trying to put a square peg in a round hole. I wish i'd got a photo.

Good answers. There is no excuse for manufacturers making foil tops or foil boxes that are so out of spec that you cannot fit them together. If you get that, time to return. Easier said than done, of course, but we don't have to live with out of spec gear.

I cringe at the word "pound." Should not be necessary. Sure, a good tight fit (in-spec) requires you to rock and push, but never pound.

If you are spending many kilobucks on gear you can expect quality.

www.mikeslab.com/Tuttle_original_specification.pdf

Have the 2022 Starboard 91cm, no issues with box fitting for F4, Phantom, Moses/Sabfoil and Starboard foils. It's not unheard of for Cobra boards to have wonky boxes that are too small or too big.

I had to sand a Starboard box to fit a Starboard foil that was loose in another Starboard board. You get what you get.
I'd rather an easy fit that fully registered on the top of the box, which is how all race foils are being designed, ahead of an overly tight fit that loaded the tapers too much. That was fine for the forces from a fin as originally intended, but not for a foil. Especially when used for racing. Which is why all race foil boards have boxes which contact the foil head and allow shimming.