I enjoy blasting over the water and occasionaly trying some moves on my 2017 JP Freestyle.
Sins I'm also getting the hang of foiling, I was wondering if slamming a foil under this 101 liter board would be any good.
The compact shape and thick tail sound promising.
Does someone have experience foiling on a regular freestyle board? I wonder if it is fun and howmuch wind I would need with my 80kg and 5.2 freek.

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NicoDC said..
I enjoy blasting over the water and occasionaly trying some moves on my 2017 JP Freestyle.
Sins I'm also getting the hang of foiling, I was wondering if slamming a foil under this 101 liter board would be any good.
The compact shape and thick tail sound promising.
Does someone have experience foiling on a regular freestyle board? I wonder if it is fun and howmuch wind I would need with my 80kg and 5.2 freek.

I never tried it, but I have seen a local guy foiling on a what looks like a stock freestyle board. There are three problems:
1) finding a foil that will fit a power box (NP does)
2) not ripping your box out as most foil boxes are reinforced
3) the straps may not be in the ideal spot (this guy is looking fine but he is virtual pro level freestyler)

I follow your concerns. That's why I might pick up an old board that's collecting dust to re-box it and insert new strap options if needed

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NicoDC said..
I follow your concerns. That's why I might pick up an old board that's collecting dust to re-box it and insert new strap options if needed

Yeah, if you rip out the box on an old board no big deal. I would recommend just inserting dual tracks in the board versus removing the box

eg

Couple guys here use Glide S on their JP's.
One a Magic 109, the other several Freestyles from 85 to 89 to 92.

Oh.....NP uses bigger fin bolt.
Flange takes load from box to bottom of tail.

I hear that foilers in Canada are having good luck with the NP powerbox-topped Glide foils.

If you use a powerbox fitting with a big flange (NP Glide does), and use a really big washer on the top of the board, big enough to bridge the edges of the chimney hole and then some, you effectively spread the foiling loads out over the skin of the board instead of concentrating the loads on only the finbox.

I am thinking of doing exactly this with a 120 liter powerbox board and Glide foil for lightweight students. I am waiting for the new Glide wing set to be introduced.

Great video! Especially because his reasoning is well explained. Difficult accent tho.
However, I'm concerd that installing tracks in front of the regulat finbox would place the foil far to much forward on a small freestyle board. The new SB ignite foil version has a box that is only 3cm closer to the front than the regular version.

Just got an RRD alu 85 so not to keen on getting a new foil yet, but great to hear it works. I'll look further into it

My wife started foiling on a 90 l Skate with a Powerplate adapter and a SS 76. The combo worked ok, and even better after I put tracks into the board. I had first tried putting a foil tuttle box into my Skate 110, but the foil ended up being too far back, so I ended up also putting tracks into the board. While I got a few foil sessions on the board that were ok, I much preferred my 117 l slalom board, which was 5 cm wider and 20 cm longer. With the SS84 that I used and limited skills, the slalom board was a lot easier to handle, especially when touching down and on upwind/downwind angles. My wife, who is a better windsurfer and foiler, liked her Skate 90, though. She only switched to a different board when she wanted to start winging (first a JP Foil 7, then a custom 85 l wing board).

I think your idea about picking up an old board is the right one. I'd put in mast tracks instead of a foil tuttle box, though, since it makes tuning and using different foils much easier. If you'd modify your current FS board, you might not like that the tracks + reinforcements add about a pound of weight to the tail. Even a foil-ready tuttle box will add some weight if you install reinforce it properly. That's not an issue for foiling, but could be an issue for freestyling.

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boardsurfr said..
My wife started foiling on a 90 l Skate with a Powerplate adapter and a SS 76. The combo worked ok, and even better after I put tracks into the board. I had first tried putting a foil tuttle box into my Skate 110, but the foil ended up being too far back, so I ended up also putting tracks into the board. While I got a few foil sessions on the board that were ok, I much preferred my 117 l slalom board, which was 5 cm wider and 20 cm longer. With the SS84 that I used and limited skills, the slalom board was a lot easier to handle, especially when touching down and on upwind/downwind angles. My wife, who is a better windsurfer and foiler, liked her Skate 90, though. She only switched to a different board when she wanted to start winging (first a JP Foil 7, then a custom 85 l wing board).

I think your idea about picking up an old board is the right one. I'd put in mast tracks instead of a foil tuttle box, though, since it makes tuning and using different foils much easier. If you'd modify your current FS board, you might not like that the tracks + reinforcements add about a pound of weight to the tail. Even a foil-ready tuttle box will add some weight if you install reinforce it properly. That's not an issue for foiling, but could be an issue for freestyling.

Thanks for the input! I still get excited everytime I pick up my jp because how light it is so indeed I'm not that keen on adding weight.

I got my eye on a couple of old Tabou Twisters of about 10 years old. These got 2 US boxes 14cm appart, so could work as a foil mount track. My foilhead got 9cm between the holes, so not an exact fit but I think it would be an option to make some adapter. It would also be cheaper, easier and saves weight compared to adding new boxes.
The board seems less exciting for freestyle surfing than my JP, but good enough to swap the foil for fins when the wind picks up

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NicoDC said..
Great video! Especially because his reasoning is well explained. Difficult accent tho.
However, I'm concerd that installing tracks in front of the regulat finbox would place the foil far to much forward on a small freestyle board. The new SB ignite foil version has a box that is only 3cm closer to the front than the regular version.

Yeah there would be some guess work. Generally i want my back foot strap over the foil mast, front foot 24 inches in front of that and sail universal about 12 inches in front. A less sensitive set up would be 40 in between back strap and universal with a foot strap spread of 20 inch. This might be better for learning to foil gybe. However, there are so many variable so these numbers may not be universal.

The beauty of the tracks though, is that you don't have to get it perfect as you have some adjustability. Also get the longest tracks you can find.

Not every foil fits every board.
Neil Pryde Glide S and M fits JP Freestyle, FSW, and Magic with front foil placement between the footstraps. We've seen working examples.

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NicoDC said..
I got my eye on a couple of old Tabou Twisters of about 10 years old. These got 2 US boxes 14cm appart, so could work as a foil mount track. My foilhead got 9cm between the holes, so not an exact fit but I think it would be an option to make some adapter. It would also be cheaper, easier and saves weight compared to adding new boxes.
The board seems less exciting for freestyle surfing than my JP, but good enough to swap the foil for fins when the wind picks up

Foil tracks are mounted way different than tracks for an old twinzer. Normal US boxes are expecting maybe a 20-25cm fin and are built as such. Mast track US boxes have a lot of PVC foam around them, ideally tied to the deck and the bottom isn't just a few layers of glass.

Either put proper tracks in or use a really good tether.

www.seatexboards.com/future-track-mount-tips-and-consequences/

I doubt if the box spacing with Twisters is the same for track foil.
You can make a power player adapter, but it might be cost positive to just buy one and drill 4 holes.
Remember to place the COE of your front foil between your feet.

Fair point concerning those boxes. Still a few options to concider when it comes to mounting the foil.

Glad to hear foils and freestylers can match.
In what conditions do you foil/fin?

Foil 5-23.
Fin 15-37.
Sails 3.7 to 8.3.
At berkeley Ca......fin 100 days a year, foil 30, cross to windsurf 25.

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Paducah said..
www.seatexboards.com/future-track-mount-tips-and-consequences/

Thanks for posting the link. It's a bit surprising to see entire tracks sink into the board. Plugs to the top deck seem to be an absolute must when installing tracks. I used pour foam plugs for my first installs, thinking it would be overkill, and a mix of PVC and pour foam for the last install, which did not have a tuttle box "anchor" in the back. Seems be good enough so far...

Heck, back in '69, we'd anchor/tie finboxes thru to the deck on surfboards. And woodies.
Glass one's reinforced/tied all the way to the rails.
Small boxes only glass wrapped.

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NicoDC said..
Fair point concerning those boxes. Still a few options to concider when it comes to mounting the foil.

Glad to hear foils and freestylers can match.
In what conditions do you foil/fin?

If you're good at planing early (most freestylers are) 5.2 should get you going in 10-12 knots after some practice. But tbh, you wont need bigger than 4.8, diminishing returns above that. For me Idol LTD 4.8 and 5.2 were equally quick to fly and I was 88Kg at the time. Currently I switched to true wavesails for the high end as I dont need the low end grunt to get going in light winds anymore.

But good freestylers still foil when breeze goes below 14 knots.
And a Glide S on the same freestyle board takes them down to minimums of 7-10 knot breezes.
Lots of days between 14 and "7-14" knots.

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LeeD said..
But good freestylers still foil when breeze goes below 14 knots.
And a Glide S on the same freestyle board takes them down to minimums of 7-10 knot breezes.
Lots of days between 14 and "7-14" knots.

Thats what I meant, I can no way get going on a freestyle board as early as 14 knots, with 4.8 18-20 knots is like my minimum, and I feel that might even be a little exaggerated.

7 knots on the foil I dont see happening, but 10-12 for sure!

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WhiteofHeart said..

NicoDC said..
Fair point concerning those boxes. Still a few options to concider when it comes to mounting the foil.

Glad to hear foils and freestylers can match.
In what conditions do you foil/fin?

If you're good at planing early (most freestylers are) 5.2 should get you going in 10-12 knots after some practice. But tbh, you wont need bigger than 4.8, diminishing returns above that. For me Idol LTD 4.8 and 5.2 were equally quick to fly and I was 88Kg at the time. Currently I switched to true wavesails for the high end as I dont need the low end grunt to get going in light winds anymore.

Awesome to hear a FS board is foilable in such low conditions! Might pass my JP to a pro to install a (deep)tuttle foilbox to fit my RRD and diy a fin for it.

Funny you mention the sails. 2 days ago I rigged a 2014 point7 slash 4.8 and came back on land to switch to my 5.2 severne freek. I rigged the p7 because it was pretty windy and I care less about crashing with that sail, but it is very flat/ has little profile so a lot less power and low end than the severne.

Why not use a Neil Pryde Glide S or M in powerbox for your FS board if it's powerbox?
Obviously, if it's us box, you need to add a box, so why not double US so you can adjust your foil for and aft?
Did you already buy a foil?

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LeeD said..
Why not use a Neil Pryde Glide S or M in powerbox for your FS board if it's powerbox?
Obviously, if it's us box, you need to add a box, so why not double US so you can adjust your foil for and aft?
Did you already buy a foil?

Yeh I got an RRD with a tuttle head and a big plate. Using it in a track system should work with the right screws but I don't want to add the extra weight to the board

My g/f has RRD foils, both 850 with 120 fuze and the newer 1500 all around with 100 fuze.
RRD is supposed to offer a Power Box adapter. Does your plate have 4 holes drilled for double track mounting?

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LeeD said..
My g/f has RRD foils, both 850 with 120 fuze and the newer 1500 all around with 100 fuze.
RRD is supposed to offer a Power Box adapter. Does your plate have 4 holes drilled for double track mounting?

I got the WH alu 85 v1 so the one with the long fuze. I have read multiple times that they would offer a powerbox option, but I don't know how I feel about going on the water with only 1 screw attaching board and foil. Anyway, haven't found a shop where they sell one.
My plate indeed has 4 holes for a track. It even has 2 extra holes next to the front ones and 1 in front of the mast so plenty of options there.

To me the danger of the powerbox single screw is not the screw itself, but the single screw pulling through the box when loaded. Powerboxes always use those chimneys in order to permit short screws. Nice for convenience, but not nice for strength. What you want to do is get the load spread out onto the top and bottom skins of the board, not just the box itself. This will be immensely stronger.

So, the mitigations for powerbox are threefold:

1. Use a foil powerbox fitting that has a flange. The NP Glide does. The Power Plate does in spades (and allows for fore and aft adjustment). I don't know about the others.
2. On the top, use a huge washer that is much bigger than than diameter of the chimney hole. I fabbed a rectangular washer out of 1/8" thick aluminum sheet stock.
3. Use a leash on the top of the mast, leashed to a back footstrap.

I am planning to do these things with a SB AtomIQ 120 I will use for instruction for small people. The foil will be a NP Glide M. Slow and easy to learn on.