Hello there !

I am looking for the fastest foil, sail and board combination in light winds 8-12kts. Which foil and sizes front wing stab etc would it be?

Also I want to know which speeds I can expect in that wind A) when going full down wind (so just 2sec max) and B) the comfortable or usual flight speed when going upwind or cross winds.

I would love to hear as much opinions as possible. I switched from freeride to a freerace foil setup and the speed feels extremely underwhelming , hoping that it's just because the low wind range. I expected usual flight speed at around 20knots.. but that's just my max and ot felt pretty unstable

I would say it is 50% equipment and 50% technique, and the improvements are gradual, start by reading this post:
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Foiling/F4Foils-Tuning-Tips-Towards-30-knots-?

The IQFoil standard setup (9.0, 900 front wing, 115+ fuse, 255 tail, shimmed to +0.5) is capable of doing 20+ in that w/ timing in the gusts. Not sure what the top end is in only 12kts. 14kts seems to be a lot more power where you can really push. I'm only doing 22-23kts so I'm not super fast.

Swapping out the front wing with something like the 725 or even a newer SLR wing with more slippery tail may get a decent bit faster. Not sure what setup you are on? It would help to know.

From what I hear, not first hand, but from guys way faster and more capable sailors than me, is that the new slalom gear (narrower boards, different profiles, newer wings) are a lot easier to ride and get going fast than the IQFoil gear. I think this is irrespective of brand as long as that brand is racing in the PWA.

I know a lightweight that can use the new 560slr quite low, but he's also like 60kg and pretty good, but he's limited on the top end due to weight. Riding a smaller alien and whatever the newer 105 fuse is called.

Some riders on the forum have also tried f4/phantom etc and like the link that powersloshin posted, are quite fast.

fast set-up: as small a front & back wing as you can get away with, and as stiff & low drag mast/fuse as you can get your hands on (narrow chord, thin profile). good place to start is what PWA guys & gals are currently using. the rest depends on your budget iQ is kinda prehistoric now

but, as others have implied too, there is always more to be squeezed out of what you are currently riding, with more practice and better technique

Thanks. I am on a 91 slalom board, a starboard GTR foil with 800 instead of 650 front wing (105 fuse, 255 , tried -2 and 0 shims) and tried 7.0 and 9.4 racing evos (no foil sail) so far. Only had two sessions but it feels still sloppy in gusts I can't keep down the nose so my max speed is around 33-35kmh, whilst cruising speed is only 30-33kmh which feels extremely underwhelming.
I want a cruising speed of 35-38kmh in that wind range.. maybe the 650 was better for me setup? Can't find any riders that have experiences with the 650 evo in light winds 8-12 knots..

My pumping technic is decent and improving fast, so any further recommendations?

I can do 23 knots (42.5 kmh) on an iq foil downwind in 8-12 knots and there are faster people than me on the same kit. The good thing about the IQ set up is you can cruise around through the lulls on that same kit so its a good all round set up imo.

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dpk said..
Thanks. I am on a 91 slalom board, a starboard GTR foil with 800 instead of 650 front wing (105 fuse, 255 , tried -2 and 0 shims) and tried 7.0 and 9.4 racing evos (no foil sail) so far. Only had two sessions but it feels still sloppy in gusts I can't keep down the nose so my max speed is around 33-35kmh, whilst cruising speed is only 30-33kmh which feels extremely underwhelming.
I want a cruising speed of 35-38kmh in that wind range.. maybe the 650 was better for me setup? Can't find any riders that have experiences with the 650 evo in light winds 8-12 knots..

My pumping technic is decent and improving fast, so any further recommendations?

I think you need to spend some time tuning your gear. Maybe get a 255 -2 back wing or the thin one. And don't forget to send it.

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dpk said..
Thanks. I am on a 91 slalom board, a starboard GTR foil with 800 instead of 650 front wing (105 fuse, 255 , tried -2 and 0 shims) and tried 7.0 and 9.4 racing evos (no foil sail) so far. Only had two sessions but it feels still sloppy in gusts I can't keep down the nose so my max speed is around 33-35kmh, whilst cruising speed is only 30-33kmh which feels extremely underwhelming.
I want a cruising speed of 35-38kmh in that wind range.. maybe the 650 was better for me setup? Can't find any riders that have experiences with the 650 evo in light winds 8-12 knots..

My pumping technic is decent and improving fast, so any further recommendations?

I think you can do faster than that with the 800, but if you can get the 650 flying, maybe, but may require pushing the mast base further back. With the IQFoil board and the smaller wings (725 and 650) I found the 105+ to be very back footed in wind that light, struggled to stay flying a bit, and the 115+ was faster, but again I'm not that fast and I don't think you'll want the 115+ for slalom. I'm also more like 90kg. Not sure what your weight is.

The big "aha" moment of me from Berowne's threads is to tilt the board to windward in gusts, which spills lift from the foil and helps keep the nose down in gusts. It's kept me from eating it many many times now.

To WillWind's point, if you are using the old 255, not the 255(-2), then you'll want the -2 shim, or even more like -1.5 with that short fuse. If you have the 255(-2) then probably +0.5 or 0, unless you struggle to get lift, then +1. If you have too much lift you can probably just sail higher/deeper to spill the power.


What angles are you sailing? Are you in the rear strap or staying out of it? Both can make quite a difference.

I've used the 800 wing a lot and really like it. It is fast and maneuverable. 8-12 is definitely on the low end for it. If you are getting it flying in those conditions it may just be a matter of more time on the water

I have the 22 evolution setup so no old 255. First session I tried -2 with 7.0 and I had to do the base all the way to the bottom, else I couldn't fly.
With the latest session I tried the 0 shim with 9.4 and had the mast base in the middle. Feeling was wired cause my front leg was angled all the time(and back foot stretched) and I had problems to flight upwind in a relaxed position. Next session I want to try -1.5 shim with 9.4 or 8.6 in 8-12 kts.

My problems are exactly the gusts and I will try to tilt the board windward thanks for that advice ! But how do you do it without changing the course? You put pressure onto the rail and thats it?
I am considering a 8.0 foil sail in the future because of this also. Can you explain what do you mean by angles?
In both sessions I was in both footstraps. In the 2. Session I changed the footstraps so that the front are all the way in the front and the back are all the way in the back - so it's the highest distance possible. With that I followed Nico Priens advice on his video how to foil in control.

IQ foil Mens setup.

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dpk said..
I have the 22 evolution setup so no old 255. First session I tried -2 with 7.0 and I had to do the base all the way to the bottom, else I couldn't fly.
With the latest session I tried the 0 shim with 9.4 and had the mast base in the middle. Feeling was wired cause my front leg was angled all the time(and back foot stretched) and I had problems to flight upwind in a relaxed position. Next session I want to try -1.5 shim with 9.4 or 8.6 in 8-12 kts.

You are using the -2? Just FYI that shim is for the very, very long 115++ (double plus) fuse. With the -2 wing it's got -4 total degrees on the tail, which is really spilling lift and might be making it too hard to control. If you use that on the 105 it's going to be very backfooted. If your weight was all the way on your rear, like you say, with the 0 shim, you should probably try at least the +0.5 if not the +1 in light wind.

If you're struggling to get upwind because of heavy back foot pressure either add another +0.5 in shim if you can or move the mast base further back.

For rail pressure you can push down and tilt the board to windward with your front and kind of pull up with your rear foot if it's in the strap to help stay on course. I typically move more upwind and slow down by tilting the board to windward, and this is ok at my skill level. It takes practice. I was able to get it a bit last time I tried but I was a bit overwhelmed in gusts with my 9.0 .

By angles I'm just asking: Are you broad reaching? Going downwind?

I'll usually head one direction hard upwind then turn around and go downwind as deep as I can with power to try to get higher speed. Or, on the same tack, I'll go hard up then zig zag downwind for speed until I want to turn around. I hardly ever to a reach on the race foil kit. Upwind and downwind is easier than reaching on a race foil, usually, but the 105 will help you reach more vs. the longer fuses that have the foil more forward.

I am using 255 backwing not 255-2... so with the 255 backwing I tried 0 and -2 . With -2 it was too heavy too lift, was ok when I moved the mast all the way to the back of the track. When I foiled with 0 shim and mast base in the middle, the nose came up pretty quickly when starting to lift (until I got more speed, then it was kinda okayish). This is why I wanna go back to -1,5 and try this shim. Maybe its the best.

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For rail pressure you can push down and tilt the board to windward with your front and kind of pull up with your rear foot if it's in the strap to help stay on course.

.
I would love to have video source that explains this via video cause I cant imagine well..

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By angles I'm just asking: Are you broad reaching? Going downwind?

thats something I still have to learn going downwin with speed. so no i didnt.. feels too wobbly and unsafe.. but if i do, i put read foot in the middle of the board.
I will try that, thanks for the help!

Ahh ok -1.5 is ticket then

It's ok to play with downwind angles with your foot in center and not in strap until you get used to it. If I go too deep downwind I feel I lose mast base pressure and get wobbly so I come more upwind

It was the same in formula racing days. With big soft fins and huge sails, we pretty much could not beam reach with any semblance of comfort or control. So, we spent the whole time going steeply upwind and downwind. We called this "hiding from the wind."

Race directors were sometimes diabolical in putting a beam reach leg into the course. And then they laughed while we struggled across that leg.

the comparison with FW is a good one, in the sense that your setup should be different depending on what you want to do/achieve: speed or angle? and of course also needs to adjust to the wind: 8 and 12 knots can be very different.

the comparison with FW is not perfect though, in particular because on foil you're less affected (mostly only for take-off) by the water state, while on a FW board the difference in speed (and thus set-up) between flat and choppy conditions (even at 12 knots) is very different.

either way, it seems that technique is your biggest challenge for now. there are many good threads on this forum on this topic, including with videos.

one final thought: I asked a PWA pro the other day for his top tip for going faster on the foil; after thinking about it for a few seconds he said, unequivocally: gain more weight...

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dpk said..

By angles I'm just asking: Are you broad reaching? Going downwind?

thats something I still have to learn going downwin with speed. so no i didnt.. feels too wobbly and unsafe.. but if i do, i put read foot in the middle of the board.
I will try that, thanks for the help!

A top level amateur offered the following advice: for best downwind VMG, accelerate on a broad reach and then turn downwind and try keep up as much speed as possible. If you are starting to slow down, come back up to gather speed and then head back down. If you are wobbly, you are going to slow/deep.

Mind you, I didn't ask for this particular advice. He just saw me going relatively slowly downwind and told me. I'd been asking him about something else.

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bel29 said..
one final thought: I asked a PWA pro the other day for his top tip for going faster on the foil; after thinking about it for a few seconds he said, unequivocally: gain more weight...

So, now my PWA dreams are crushed along with my NBA dreams? Life is so unfair. (And, I guess I'm cancelling my order for a case of 2000 grit sandpaper which I was sure was the ticket.)

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Paducah said..

A top level amateur offered the following advice: for best downwind VMG, accelerate on a broad reach and then turn downwind and try keep up as much speed as possible. If you are starting to slow down, come back up to gather speed and then head back down. If you are wobbly, you are going to slow/deep.

Mind you, I didn't ask for this particular advice. He just saw me going relatively slowly downwind and told me. I'd been asking him about something else.

agree; also in this respect foil isn't fundamentally different from fin: the fastest way from A to B is usually not a straight line

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Paducah said..

bel29 said..
one final thought: I asked a PWA pro the other day for his top tip for going faster on the foil; after thinking about it for a few seconds he said, unequivocally: gain more weight...

So, now my PWA dreams are crushed along with my NBA dreams? Life is so unfair. (And, I guess I'm cancelling my order for a case of 2000 grit sandpaper which I was sure was the ticket.)

at the margins many things make a difference; some things just make a bigger (!) difference than others

39, 6 km/u peak speed on a small inland lake in belgium
Longest runs possible is only around 800m .


Starboard race 2020 carbonfoil
115 black fuse
1000 milenium wing
255 back wing

Future fly flying camel 145
Ga sails 7,7 cosmic 2cam sail

Am 186cm and 68kg

Wind between 10 and 12kn

My favorite speed technique video. It's a bit long but full of useful tips. The presenters fun too. SPEEEED - How to WindFoil - Fast !


For 8kts -10 kts I'd use a 1000 F4 foil with 10.0 sail and 100cm board aiming to get 20+ knots cruising at 16.
For 10-12 knots of wind I might go to the 900 wide 850cm2 front wing and 9.0 sail on 91 board or even the 850 wide 660cm2 2023 foil.
But you need enough lift from the foil to be able to sheet in and drive the sail down. so finely balanced lift and power from both sail and foil. Rear angle of the shim has a massive impact. Changing by 0.5? can go from uncomfortable fight to controllable speed.
good luck