?list=TLPQMjYwODIwMjBzocO_ddrN8Q

The video is very Slingshot-specific, and pretty close to being just a promotional video for Slingshot boards. Other foil manufacturers have foil boards with straps that are more similar to slalom boards. The Fanatic Stringray is a good example. The JP Free Foil is another one.

The boards in the video are 105 l and 110 l. I can't really imagine many regular windsurfers learning on those. If he's taken a 125 l or larger slalom board, there'd be a lot more width and volume in the back.

It's true that the way you get going on a Slingshot board is quite different than from a slalom board. But the way he describes how to plane on a slalom board is nonsense. "Get on a plane with your front foot on the mast base" - I'd like to see that! Windsurfers are quite used to moving their feet back as they pick up speed. That works quite well with a foil, too.

Just yesterday, we had two novice foilers on the beach. One was on a Wizard 150 with an i76. He had foiled a few times before, but did not get any decent runs at all in the relatively light wind. The other guys, who is at least 20 kg heavier, was on an old formula board with an i84. He got half a dozen short runs, the longest perhaps 50 meters. He was pretty happy about it. Sail sizes were very similar.

The one advantage that buying a foil and foil board from the same manufacturer is that finding the correct trim can be easy (as long as you ignore the advice to "start in A position" you can still find in some Slingshot videos). The newbie on the formula board had the benefit of getting advice to use the C position, which he did, even though he said "but Slingshot says start in A or B position". Without other foilers with some experience around, finding a balanced setup on "mix and match" gear can be a big challenge for a foil newbie. Slingshot videos can be particularly confusing at times; the advice "75 cm distance from mast front to mast foot" that Wyatt gives in the ShredSled video is very different from the "42 inches (i.e. 105 cm) between foil mast and mast foot" in older videos or posts, and he does not bother to explain the difference.

Slingshot makes decent foils for beginners, and plenty of beginners also had success with Slingshot boards. But there are also plenty others who've been perfectly fine using old slalom, formula, freeride, or freestyle boards to get started.

I am super happy with my Goya Bolt 127 liter freerace board which is also foil ready. I've been 90% using it for freeride foiling and rest for fin windsurfing.

Many times I've looked at foil dedicated boards online and wondered what the added value would be. Can't think of any.

Each time on the water I conclude that there is no need for change. I can fly endless distances etc. My mast is 95 cm. Board is 75 wide.

I think there are similar boards like this incl Summer Style Monster 127. I saw Mr Ben Profitt matching that board with an AFS foil with good results. Watching AFS videos online you see them matching their foils with freeride freerace boards.

I decided to go for the AFS to pair with the Bolt and is the best foil decision I ever made!!

Well, I am killing it on my old Isonic 124 with the box modified. Front foot in the strap, pump & go!

The benefit of buying a Wizard 125 or 105 is that they're perfect for learning (W105 if you're sub 80 kgs) and also perfect for more advanced foiling e.g. downwinding 2m ocean swells.
Change from the Infinity 76 wing to the 65 and I reckon you've got the best wave riding/swell downwinding/gybing solution available

You can't say the same for converted formula or slalom boards or longer nose foil freeride boards.
You'll probably want to upgrade as you progress.

How is the gyb-ability of repurposed slalom/formula board versus dedicated foil board?

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azymuth said..
The benefit of buying a Wizard 125 or 105 is that they're perfect for learning (W105 if you're sub 80 kgs)

That depends a lot on your conditions, skills, and speed of learning.
I've foiled the Wizard 125 a few times, and found it rather difficult to uphaul, tack, and slog. Our wind happens to be a lot more variable that WA summer wind; most sessions require some slogging, and on a bad day, that's most of the session. All that is a lot easier to do on windsurf boards. Of the Slingshot boards I tried, the only one I really liked was the Flyer 280.

It's seems that the short-nose boards offer advantages for advanced to expert foilers, especially in good conditions. That's what many expert foilers say, and what the tests in the German "Surf" magazine say. For beginners at typical places with variable wind, though, I'm not at all convinced that boards like the Wizards (or the Levitator) are the best choice.

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boardsurfr said..

azymuth said..
The benefit of buying a Wizard 125 or 105 is that they're perfect for learning (W105 if you're sub 80 kgs)

That depends a lot on your conditions, skills, and speed of learning.
I've foiled the Wizard 125 a few times, and found it rather difficult to uphaul, tack, and slog. Our wind happens to be a lot more variable that WA summer wind; most sessions require some slogging, and on a bad day, that's most of the session. All that is a lot easier to do on windsurf boards. Of the Slingshot boards I tried, the only one I really liked was the Flyer 280.

It's seems that the short-nose boards offer advantages for advanced to expert foilers, especially in good conditions. That's what many expert foilers say, and what the tests in the German "Surf" magazine say. For beginners at typical places with variable wind, though, I'm not at all convinced that boards like the Wizards (or the Levitator) are the best choice.

I fully agree with this. I tried a few foil dedicated boards too. And tacking was a pain. Even basic uphauling.

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thedoor said..
How is the gyb-ability of repurposed slalom/formula board versus dedicated foil board?

I'd say that this depends more on the foil itself. Fuse length, shape of the wing and stability it offers. Especially when learning to foil gybe.

It depends on the type of foil and foil specific board you are using. I started out with the NeilPryde aluminium pinky foil, with my 133/85 wide JP slalom board and that was fine. I then moved to the starboard GTR foil, which has a bit more of a race type wing on it, so I then upgraded to a JP135 foil specific board and that was awesome. I then upgraded to the 115 race fuselage on my GTR which made it even more racy so I upgraded my board to have a bit more width and I have the JP175 foil specific race board and that's fantastic. I've now upgraded to a full race starboard set up and the JP board works perfectly with it. It's even fine for slogging around because it's got the width the volume and the length to be used.
In my opinion, if you are wanting a board that is foil specific and is good for free ride and you can also use a race foil on it, I would go the JP135 foil board. It's even decent with a fin in it.

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MProject04 said..

thedoor said..
How is the gyb-ability of repurposed slalom/formula board versus dedicated foil board?

I'd say that this depends more on the foil itself. Fuse length, shape of the wing and stability it offers. Especially when learning to foil gybe.

makes sense

Found this board test www.windsurf.co.uk/125l-freeride-freerace-board-test/
and happy to read about my own board: www.windsurf.co.uk/goya-bolt-pro-127-2020-test-review/

This statement I believe is pretty accurate: " It was one of the stand out foiling boards in this group"

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thedoor said..
How is the gyb-ability of repurposed slalom/formula board versus dedicated foil board?

That's my $250 foil board on the left!

The reason the foils of 2 years ago all had tuttle heads was so that we could all get into it using repurposed slalom and formula boards.

He's right about swing weight with the extra length. Moment of inertia goes up with the square of it. But those old slalom boards are still top end construction and pretty light which counteracts the length to some degree. Can't say I've got the gybes yet, but there's plenty of room on the deck to do all the footwork shown in the "How to Gybe a foil board" videos. What else matters?

The rear footstraps are 2 inches further back. Legs are flexible push your hips 2 inches forward.

A 75 wide slalom board is relatively short of planing width at the rear compared to the dedicated board on the right in the video, but with a biggish free ride foil it's no problem getting going for non-racers. Besides the new Slingshots are going narrow.

I haven't had a go on a purpose-built foil board but I think he's exaggerating a little and that the original premise still holds for those thinking of getting into it but doing a budgetary yes/no/yes/no . Getting more windsurfers out of their comfort zone and into foiling is the main thing. He shouldn't worry either way, Slingshot will gain in the long run.

It's not a comparison of apple vs apple.

if you pick a slalom board, you will probably put a more racy foil compare to a freeride/wave foil. My understanding is if you have a racy foil you need boat speed and Slalom/freerace/freeride got some good glide. Compact board a lot less. Slower foil, not all but some can be pumped and boat speed is less an issue, you gain some height and you pump..shorter board is probably better?

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Ian K said..

thedoor said..
How is the gyb-ability of repurposed slalom/formula board versus dedicated foil board?

That's my $250 foil board on the left!

The reason the foils of 2 years ago all had tuttle heads was so that we could all get into it using repurposed slalom and formula boards.

He's right about swing weight with the extra length. Moment of inertia goes up with the square of it. But those old slalom boards are still top end construction and pretty light which counteracts the length to some degree. Can't say I've got the gybes yet, but there's plenty of room on the deck to do all the footwork shown in the "How to Gybe a foil board" videos. What else matters?

The rear footstraps are 2 inches further back. Legs are flexible push your hips 2 inches forward.

A 75 wide slalom board is relatively short of planing width at the rear compared to the dedicated board on the right in the video, but with a biggish free ride foil it's no problem getting going for non-racers. Besides the new Slingshots are going narrow.

I haven't had a go on a purpose-built foil board but I think he's exaggerating a little and that the original premise still holds for those thinking of getting into it but doing a budgetary yes/no/yes/no . Getting more windsurfers out of their comfort zone and into foiling is the main thing. He shouldn't worry either way, Slingshot will gain in the long run.

yeah whatever gets people started. $1000 for a foil is a lot better than $3000 for foil and foil board

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Maddlad said..
It depends on the type of foil and foil specific board you are using. I started out with the NeilPryde aluminium pinky foil, with my 133/85 wide JP slalom board and that was fine. I then moved to the starboard GTR foil, which has a bit more of a race type wing on it, so I then upgraded to a JP135 foil specific board and that was awesome. I then upgraded to the 115 race fuselage on my GTR which made it even more racy so I upgraded my board to have a bit more width and I have the JP175 foil specific race board and that's fantastic. I've now upgraded to a full race starboard set up and the JP board works perfectly with it. It's even fine for slogging around because it's got the width the volume and the length to be used.
In my opinion, if you are wanting a board that is foil specific and is good for free ride and you can also use a race foil on it, I would go the JP135 foil board. It's even decent with a fin in it.

Hey mate what fin do you use in the 135

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tonyd said..

Maddlad said..
It depends on the type of foil and foil specific board you are using. I started out with the NeilPryde aluminium pinky foil, with my 133/85 wide JP slalom board and that was fine. I then moved to the starboard GTR foil, which has a bit more of a race type wing on it, so I then upgraded to a JP135 foil specific board and that was awesome. I then upgraded to the 115 race fuselage on my GTR which made it even more racy so I upgraded my board to have a bit more width and I have the JP175 foil specific race board and that's fantastic. I've now upgraded to a full race starboard set up and the JP board works perfectly with it. It's even fine for slogging around because it's got the width the volume and the length to be used.
In my opinion, if you are wanting a board that is foil specific and is good for free ride and you can also use a race foil on it, I would go the JP135 foil board. It's even decent with a fin in it.

Hey mate what fin do you use in the 135

I used my biggest fin which was a 44 Lockwood Carbon fin Tony. I dont have that board anymore, and i only used it a couple of times to try it but it worked fine. :)

Hi
I would like to find an old slalom board which would be rather short (230cm), very flat to fly early and with the footstraps inboard. I guess it's impossible to have all this, slalom flat boards normally don't have the footstraps in board.

Does somebody know an old model with all these features?

Thanks.

I know someone on a FoilX 105 with a race foil, it works fine. I've run a race foil on a 70cm board too.
Board width is more about sail size and desired upwind ability than foil type.

I use a freeride with a front rocker. When I nose dive, I have bounced off the water just like a foil board.
IMHO a slalom board won't have much of a rocker in the front so its crashing vs bouncing.

But a freeride board should need more wind to fly than a flatter rocker slalom board, right?

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boardsurfr said..

azymuth said..
The benefit of buying a Wizard 125 or 105 is that they're perfect for learning (W105 if you're sub 80 kgs)

That depends a lot on your conditions, skills, and speed of learning.
I've foiled the Wizard 125 a few times, and found it rather difficult to uphaul, tack, and slog. Our wind happens to be a lot more variable that WA summer wind; most sessions require some slogging, and on a bad day, that's most of the session. All that is a lot easier to do on windsurf boards. Of the Slingshot boards I tried, the only one I really liked was the Flyer 280.

It's seems that the short-nose boards offer advantages for advanced to expert foilers, especially in good conditions. That's what many expert foilers say, and what the tests in the German "Surf" magazine say. For beginners at typical places with variable wind, though, I'm not at all convinced that boards like the Wizards (or the Levitator) are the best choice.

So maybe for learning in light winds a longer (and wide) board is better because it flies sooner (planes easier) and it's more stable for slogging and uphaling

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MProject04 said..
I am super happy with my Goya Bolt 127 liter freerace board which is also foil ready. I've been 90% using it for freeride foiling and rest for fin windsurfing.

Many times I've looked at foil dedicated boards online and wondered what the added value would be. Can't think of any.

Each time on the water I conclude that there is no need for change. I can fly endless distances etc. My mast is 95 cm. Board is 75 wide.a mast

I think there are similar boards like this incl Summer Style Monster 127. I saw Mr Ben Profitt matching that board with an AFS foil with good results. Watching AFS videos online you see them matching their foils with freeride freerace boards.

I decided to go for the AFS to pair with the Bolt and is the best foil decision I ever made!!

second that combo, Goya Bolt 135 and AFS Wind95 with F800 wing, the 2018/19 model year for the Bolt had a mast track that was just long enough to perfectly balance the board/foil, had to go with a single bolt joint and then the nut was ~1/8-1/4" from the end/rear of the track! Think they lenghtened it in 2020. I wonder if I go to a smaller wing if I will lose the balance point, but the F800 wing is good from 8-22 knots so not an issue so far. What I really like to do in 2-3 foot waves and swell is to drop in and actually surf the wave, but obviously a lot faster than normal surfing, and then go back up, or skip off the tops of waves, makes for a 3D foiling experience! The Simmer Monster looks to be very similar, but do not know about the mast track. And the Goya foil box is really strong, slamed into a sandbar so hard that when my sail hit the water it broke a ferrule and a tube batten, but the foil box was fine, same after a wave picked up the boad/foil (was getting out so detached sail) and slamed it foil side down flat onto the beach, AFS foil was fine too since it is solid carbon wing/stab/fuselage and hollow carbon mast.

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Sandman1221 said..What I really like to do in 2-3 foot waves and swell is to drop in and actually surf the wave, but obviously a lot faster than normal surfing, and then go back up, or skip off the tops of waves, makes for a 3D foiling experience!

Finding it hard to picture this - by drop in do you mean drop down off the foil to surf the waves?

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Lecum said..
But a freeride board should need more wind to fly than a flatter rocker slalom board, right?

Until there's enough speed the foil will not give lift regardless of the board.
Maybe a little harder to get up to lift-off speed with a freeride board

I've been using an old Fanatic 131 Falcon slalom board and today had a couple of runs on my new 140 Stingray HRS foil board, the stingray is BIG got a couple of flights but didn't feel comfortable at all, still need to tune and set it up but the Falcon from my first go was way easier to ride.

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choco said..
I've been using an old Fanatic 131 Falcon slalom board and today had a couple of runs on my new 140 Stingray HRS foil board, the stingray is BIG got a couple of flights but didn't feel comfortable at all, still need to tune and set it up but the Falcon from my first go was way easier to ride.

I've got the same foil as you and recently gone through the same process. I started on a mistral 120l slalom board and have since bought a starboard foil 111 (small but fun). It's totally unlocked the fun side of foiling rather than trying to just stay up. The stance is also much better and blasting upwind is also easier, I can now zoom around all over the place, e.g. long downwind gybes, shoot back upwind, go and have a look at in interesting boat, etc. It's also opened up foiling in swell, terrifying but fun.The naish foil is great but a little back footed (this is not necessarily a bad thing) so get the straps on the fanatic as far back as possible and the same for the mast. When riding try to get your back foot as far back in the strap as back possible too! If it's still unbalanced, starboard now make a Tuttle to twin track adapter so you can use the tracks on the fanatic to get the foil forward.

stick with it, the fanatic is good and a little tuning will pay off. If your falcon is comfier then seek expert advice as something is set up wrong on the fanatic!

I just got the Fanatic Stingray Foil Edition 140. I love that thing. Floaty (140 liter) and wide (85 cm) enough to keep me (95 kg) above the water when not in flight. Easy to turn, easy to tune and balance, good footstrap positions. Also, and this is big, both deep tuttle AND dual track so you can mount anything to it. A board like this is the future.

Ossy, maybe move foil mast forward and sail mast back.

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azymuth said..

Sandman1221 said..What I really like to do in 2-3 foot waves and swell is to drop in and actually surf the wave, but obviously a lot faster than normal surfing, and then go back up, or skip off the tops of waves, makes for a 3D foiling experience!

Finding it hard to picture this - by drop in do you mean drop down off the foil to surf the waves?

Yeah, that is it, but going really fast so maybe foil is still lifting a little even though the board is on the water.

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segler said..
I just got the Fanatic Stingray Foil Edition 140. I love that thing. Floaty (140 liter) and wide (85 cm) enough to keep me (95 kg) above the water when not in flight. Easy to turn, easy to tune and balance, good footstrap positions. Also, and this is big, both deep tuttle AND dual track so you can mount anything to it. A board like this is the future.

I want that board! A friend who got the Stingray 140 made very rapid progress in jibes, 360s, and overall foiling fun after getting the board, after first trying to use an older/cheaper board. Unfortunately, after buying 2 different "multi-use" boards, it's not in the budget right now.

The Stingray, with 228 cm length, goes against the "consensus" from many foil board makers to come out with shorter and shorter boards. I never cared much for the short SS boards, but following to the "millions of flies can't be wrong" logic, I bought a 6 ft 10 board anyway. Seems that of 10 sessions on the board, 1 is very good, 2 are ok, and the remaining 7 are somewhere between "not worth the effort" and "really bad". I finally switched back to my old 71 cm wide, 247 cm long slalom board, and was reminded what I love about foiling. Great session, even including a couple of planed jibes (with short touchdowns, not foiled through - still felt good). Using a 71 cm mast in swell up a meter, I had a few breaches today, and I loved how easy it was to recover from most of them, which would have been major crashes on the short board.

The trend to shorter and shorter foil boards reminds me very much of the times where windsurfing magazines seemed to mostly cover sub-90 l boards, and everyone would look at you funny on the beach if your board would float you, or your sail was bigger than a 5.5. Cudos to Fanatic for bucking the trend.