I know this is a very common question and it's been talked many times.
But, at this moment (2023 is different from 2020..), brands offer both setups for different programs.
I mean, camless sails are provided both for classic freeride AND for sporty performance. As well as (few) cams sails might suit sporty freeriders, freeracers and not full on race geeks.

Having got no personal experience with any of specific foil sail but wanting buy some to replace my full on fin racing sails, Which set up might be "appropriate" (and why) ?

- usually foiled in not steady 7-11 kts
- foiled in 12-16 kts flat water
- occasionally foled in 15-20 kts

Board 83 cm foil dedicated
Foil slalom 2022 (currently ordered the freeride front wing)

Main goals:
foiling as easily and as much as possible up to 20 kts?
improve my flight lenghts and stability
improve my technique and better understand the single action/reaction
learn air gybes
learn how to increase the flight speed

I think that everything written above might be reached using my current stuff. That's why i'm trying to figure if (at this stage) it worth it to replace my full on fin racing sails with different ones.

Np speedster and duotone e-pace are really good and fast sails you can use in foil.

Super stabile and fast.



I have both on racefoil setup. My wife uses them on a fanatic gecko with fin.

Speedster 5,2
E- pace 5,8

But i will get for foiling a speedster in bigger size also.

.

Short answer: somewhere around 10-12kts I have the option to go freeride instead of big cammed sails. Below that wind speed I find going fast, and pointing hard up/downwind much more fun on race gear than the effort needed to use small freeride gear.

My setup is:

Freeride setup
7.0 cammed Foilglide 2
6.3, 5.6, 5.0, 4.4 (All freeks but the 5.0 which is a blade. I also have a 6.7 blade but I haven't foiled with it as the freeks feel a bit better and I think I'd rather have the cammed sail in light winds)

Race setup
7.0/8.0 foilglide and 9.0 HGO. I really haven't bothered with anything but the 9.0 yet on that setup as i use it for lighter stuff, and primarily in 6 to realistically 16kts base wind. Above that I really would rather be on freeride gear at the moment given my skill levels

My best jibes so far were on a day where I was overpowered on a 5.0 blade, using freeride foil gear, and could easily enter jibes and come out with a nice large radius without losing much speed. Lighter wind foiling jibes I've come out on foil, clew first, but need more TOW with that gear to get them put together.

The smaller camless sails are much easier to duck and hold onto flagged out, and when I'm on them just feel more playful. Have started trying to jump when there's enough wind for that gear but I'll admit that my skill with that is really weak. People do it with bigger cammed gear sometimes but eh, think I'd rather have the smaller stuff on when I try that.

All my freeks/blades I also use for fin B&J out in small bay swells here, sometimes in waves I'll use the freeks if the shorebreak doesn't look too bad, so they are multi-purpose. Some people have used foil freeks here but I can't say if the difference is that great between freeks/foil freeks.

Forgotten to write,

I'm not interested in any pointing as hell both up and down wind.
No freestyle neither.

Would like just cruising (and hopefully soon) blasting back and forth, jointing everything with nice transitions.

A cammed sail will give you the most range for that.

BUT what sails do you currently have around 6-8.0? There may be tweaks (A little less downhaul to tighten the leech and a little more outhaul) that make them have a better foiling feel. That would save money and give you more TOW before deciding what you want. Some people here may know how to best trim your existing gear so it's better for foiling.

I'm using patrik 3cam GT3 sails to foil & fin. I was very surprised how well they foiled. Slightly shorter boom and heaps of stability. I also use NP V8 Flights 7.0&8.0. Great sails too, light shorter booms and twin cams so stable to Bu not as stable as 3 cams. sont limit uourself to just going across the wind. Up and down is great too. Get into the gybes asap. Do it just like on the fin and then refine it to flying all the way. Bend knees and keep front arm straight & mast upright. You'll work it out. Remember, FlyNoDie

For me in variable wind conditions, I prefer a cammed sail 4.5 or larger. In my experience..,
Non cammed sails only get their shape when inflated. When sailing from a 18 Knott wind line in to 7 knot lulls with random gusts in between, a cammed sail maintains in shape throughout making it easier to modulate power. No cammed sail in those conditions are more of a challenge as the draft in the saill moves around when randomly inflated. BUT, I have the most fun with a small non cammed sail in 18+ knots of wind. The sail is so small,.any instability by not having cams is not an issue. The sail flips can be very fast .and just more fun than cammed sails IMO.

If you are not interested in very high race performance, Sailworks Flyer is verylight and durable with 2 cams. I am using 8.2, 7 and 6 Flyer for my F4 racefoil.

I use Aerotech Freespeed and Phantom sails for what you want to do, no cam, easy to rig, durable, lightish weight, reasonable price, great support!

I regularly sail in very gusty conditions. You don't need no stinking cams! (But I rarely sail in a straight line)

I'm relatively new to foiling, AHD Compact 83 foil board, AFS F1090 freeride foil, and I prefer my Ezzy Lions, 2 cam, to my Ezzy Cheetah no cams. For the same reasons WsurfAustin said, the cammed sails have their shape in light winds so give a consistent pull. The Cheetahs have in built fullness to a certain extent, but not quite the same. Rotation on the Lions is easy compared to most cammed sails. I use 6.5/7.5/8.5m
I just do flat water mowing the lawn sailing on large kit, not too bothered about top speed on the foil as 20 knots average seems fast enough at the moment.
I still do fin sailing and want to use just 1 set off sails, so wont be buying foil sails as the Lions are ok. If I was going to buy foil sails, the shorter boom length would be a bonus.
I quite like the look of the XO Fly www.exocet-original.com/fly-v2-c2x36221928

Video from Nils Bach. I've been watching his slalom/speed videos for a while now. He always seems open and honest about things. I think he gave up his job on tug boats and now works for Point 7, but I'd still take his word. Some reps are just full of bull****.

No cam - planes slightly later than a cammed sail. He says this sail is faster than his full on fin race slalom sails as its has less drag. Easier to rig and use, no stability issues. It will be interesting to see how it compares against his foil race sails when he gets them.
4 minutes in he says how light the sail feels. I've picked up 8m Phantom foil race sails and other race sails and they feel heavy compared to my Ezzy Lions, so have given race kit a swerve for years. He goes on to say how the shorter boom gives less back hand pressure and for him easier on the back as you dont have to get into a position to counter the backhand pressure. I can identify with this, when it gets too windy I change down.

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PhilUK said..
Video from Nils Bach. I've been watching his slalom/speed videos for a while now. He always seems open and honest about things. I think he gave up his job on tug boats and now works for Point 7, but I'd still take his word. Some reps are just full of bull****.

No cam - planes slightly later than a cammed sail. He says this sail is faster than his full on fin race slalom sails as its has less drag. Easier to rig and use, no stability issues. It will be interesting to see how it compares against his foil race sails when he gets them.
4 minutes in he says how light the sail feels. I've picked up 8m Phantom foil race sails and other race sails and they feel heavy compared to my Ezzy Lions, so have given race kit a swerve for years. He goes on to say how the shorter boom gives less back hand pressure and for him easier on the back as you dont have to get into a position to counter the backhand pressure. I can identify with this, when it gets too windy I change down.

awesome footage. Don't have tonnes of experience foiling on my race sails but when I did I noticed the extra difficulty in water starting compared to when i use those race sails on fin, mostly cause of the lower wind speed when foiling, so would be happy if no cam foiling sails were close performance wise.

Yesterday, after almost 3 months of cold and/or strong winds, I had the opportunity to sail in foil with 12-18 kts. I set the 6.3 racing (fin) with little DH and a lot of OH, trying to neutralize the extra lift problem when the most intense gusts arrive.
Although the new foil is really reassuring I often found myself having to sheet out to balance the excessive pull on the rear arm. This way the flight stability was often in trouble...
In my opinion I could have handled the situation better if only I had used longer harness lines (belief deriving from the fact that when I could get into the "chair" position -but unhooked- the flight became longer and quite "safe").
Actually the doubt remains as to what it could be if I'd used a dedicated foil sail (werther it was cambered or camless).
Until the local summer club reopens I will often sail in" stron"g winds, say between 14 and 25 kts. What if, instead of cambered sails, I take something sporty camless foil dedicated sail? Is it going to provide a more manageable power?
Bet still, my "perception of power" while foiling is strongly influenced by my poor level and by the feeling coming from the use of the fin racing sail. What could be different (in comparison) with a 2 or 3 cambers foil sail?

p.s. for summer 8-12 kts it's pretty clear the best choice is something cambered...

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w100 said..
Yesterday, after almost 3 months of cold and/or strong winds, I had the opportunity to sail in foil with 12-18 kts. I set the 6.3 racing (fin) with little DH and a lot of OH, trying to neutralize the extra lift problem when the most intense gusts arrive.
Although the new foil is really reassuring I often found myself having to sheet out to balance the excessive pull on the rear arm. This way the flight stability was often in trouble...
In my opinion I could have handled the situation better if only I had used longer harness lines (belief deriving from the fact that when I could get into the "chair" position -but unhooked- the flight became longer and quite "safe").
Actually the doubt remains as to what it could be if I'd used a dedicated foil sail (werther it was cambered or camless).
Until the local summer club reopens I will often sail in" stron"g winds, say between 14 and 25 kts. What if, instead of cambered sails, I take something sporty camless foil dedicated sail? Is it going to provide a more manageable power?
Bet still, my "perception of power" while foiling is strongly influenced by my poor level and by the feeling coming from the use of the fin racing sail. What could be different (in comparison) with a 2 or 3 cambers foil sail?

p.s. for summer 8-12 kts it's pretty clear the best choice is something cambered...

Are some sails way better for foiling than others? Yes

Is it just about cams? No

Can a beginner foil tell the difference? No (not sure if you consider yourself a beginner foiler or not)

If you need more time on foil to develop the foil stance, may not be worth getting new gear just yet.

If you are riding around better unhooked make sure you lengthen your harness lines a lot and move them forward of the power point so you can sheet out without hooking out

Learn to use your your hips to control the rig/mast foot pressure and additionally you need to learn to shift your weight on your feet when rig pressure alone is not enough to control foil.

If you have lots of time on foil and are not using a fin stance and you are not improving then perhaps I would dabble with a different sail