Hey guys, i'm debating between a bigger sail and a foil..

i have a 100l Freestyle board with 4.0 - 4.8 sails. as i live in switzerland we often have gusty and low winds.. so i'm debating to either buy a 5.2 (need a 430 mast as well) or go with a foil.

i would have a much bigger windrange with the foil and don't have to buy a third mast.. but it means more gear and learning from scratch again (not the best finsurfer still)..

how would you choose?

Why not a bigger board?
i just bought a bigger board. 226 long in stead of 180.
now i windfoil with less wind on the same foil.

Does the freestyle board have a foil box?

I'd definitely pick the foil. You'll gain more on the low end than you'd gain with a larger sail, and the wider range you get with foils make it easier to deal with gusty winds.

That said, you probably should get a different board to start foiling - something wider, with a bit more volume, and foil tracks. But used boards suitable for beginners tend to be cheaper than new masts. If the gear you're using is an indication of your skills, I would not worry about the learning curve .. although a warmer season might be a better time to start foiling.

What foil are you using? And what do you weigh? Makes a difference.

Depends on what you have and what you want to change to. In general, maybe not bigger but better foil, later design will give more range than changing sails.
But for example, I just switched from goya cypher 5.1 to severe foil freek 4.4, and my comfort range went up significantly too.

thanks guys!
my board does not have foil box and i dont wanna go bigger, so either bigger sail or a new foil.

i am also leaning towards the foil as the range increases a lot by this. i can wingfoil but i dont know if its too soon to start windfoiling as i cant powergybe yet..

i could get a starboard foil x 125 or slingshot freestyle 115 cheap. im 184cm and 82kg. is the slingshot too advanced? i would like the powerplate for better compatibility with different foils..

Its 100L

Go a 32cm freeride fin and a 6.5

You are using verrry small sails for what it could handle

Generally I would say a bigger foil, however, I would much rather be on a 5.2 with my smaller foil, than a 4.8 with a big foil. and if you fin windsurf, you will likely need something bigger than a 4.8 anyways. although, perhaps you should look for a 5.5 and go 4.0 to 4.8 to 5.5ish. No need to learn fin gybe before foil gybe. Plenty of windfoilers how fly throught their gybes, never finned. Although, I encourage you to keep working on fin and foil

Select to expand quote

Mark _australia said..
Its 100L

Go a 32cm freeride fin and a 6.5

You are using verrry small sails for what it could handle

This doesn't seem like a bad option. Was going to say a freek 6.3 (or equivalent) will give you lots of power when it's lighter there.

If you go to foil, I am very average at both fin and foil. Never come out planing on a fin. I do get some totally clean foil jibes now and then and it's a lot easier than jibing on a fin.

I have a foilx 145 and slingshot freestyle 115. After getting the freestyle I haven't touched the foilx.
The foilx is more corky but also has a wider tail and straps that is better for angles and speed. My particular board only had a tuttle, not a track, and I used the aluminum power plate. It worked well enough but I still wanted the foil more far forward. Newer foilxs have tracks I think and the 125 has a center rear strap?

At my weight of ~95kg I can uphaul a 7.0 on the freestyle. It is more technical to foil than a real beginner foil board and the tail is more narrow, so you really have to stand on the rail to get upwind angles. I also think that the takeoff is more technical than a wider, longer foil board (even moreso than the foilx) that beginners would typically ride. Once in the air it feels great and 3 strap arrangement would be similar to your existing board.

If your largest sail is a 4.8 you are in a much windier place than me though, and I'd be talking to other swiss riders like Balz and seeing what they thought....

thanks for the replys! as i don't have a foil yet the question of big or small foil is not there yet, i'm thinkin about a pfi 730 and the fs 115 as i get them really cheap right now.

if i would buy a bigger sail as i ride the freestyle sails, i would upgrade to 5.2, could also go directly to 5.6.. but don't know how many knots i would need with that combo to blast around..

4.8 and foil would be 12 knots minimum or more?

Select to expand quote

snapback said..
thanks for the replys! as i don't have a foil yet the question of big or small foil is not there yet, i'm thinkin about a pfi 730 and the fs 115 as i get them really cheap right now.

if i would buy a bigger sail as i ride the freestyle sails, i would upgrade to 5.2, could also go directly to 5.6.. but don't know how many knots i would need with that combo to blast around..

4.8 and foil would be 12 knots minimum or more?

That fs 115 and pfi730 setup is what I also got for cheap. I use it with the ptm926 instead though. The ptm926 flies a little bit earlier than the 730.

As for specific wind speed it's so dependent on technique. Some people can do it with a 4.8 at those speeds but I'm not there yet.

Hi, if it helps (!), I'm 82kg and went down the foilstyle route after starting off with larger Starboard kit. Now on 110ltr (toolbox), SAB 799 and 769, 83cm mast. Pondering a 909 but the 799 has pretty a big range. Paired with FoilFreek 4.4 and 5.2.

If there's a hint of a whitecap I can fly 799+5.2m FF when others are on 7m multicam rigs. Timing of rig and foil pumping key and chop/swell awareness crucial as it's easy to miss the takeoff opportunities!

Have fun

helps a ton! ;)

wandering if i would keep the 4.8 and add a foil. is it possible to foil until the 4.8 gets too big and then switch to 100 FS fin or is it still to light for the fin then? would the overlap be better on the 5.2?

i see i have to get both

I use a horue 105 ltr tiny board with a 5.2 severne foilfreek combined with a 400 rdm mast and a sab 799 foil, i weigh 75 kg and can uphaul easy en can get up at 12 knots

I'm a little confused but it sounds like you don't yet have a foil of any kind? Getting some kind of medium-aspect foil will do more for your time on the water than anything else you could possibly buy. Don't stress too much about what to get (although I'd stay away from that Foil-X. No one I know who has one likes using it. Mostly flat water hereabouts so maybe it's better on waves but I have my doubts). If your board has a powerbox and you can reliably uphaul it then get a Powerplate and start with that setup until you're through the learning phase. In minimal foiling conditions you won't have enough wind to waterstart so something the floats you is essential because you're going to fall a lot.

The thing is, whatever you get this year to learn on won't be keeping up with you next year. To begin with you'll probably need 15kt or more to foil on the 4.8, but that won't last. If you regularly get winds you can plane on with a 4.2 and a fin, it's going to be pretty scary learning to foil, and you'll need a 3.5 or smaller. 14-18kt is kind of ideal, so if you can plane on a fin in 18 then you're covered with minimal overlap.

If you are learning to foil in Switzerland in fresh water, then board volume about 30 to 40 litres more than your weight and squared tail will help as you get your flight legs. The Freestyle 115 is doable but will take longer to learn. Lower volume, shorter, tapered tail boards are a bit squirely when trying to take off, but great once you're flying. The PFI730 is a good low aspect foil and good value. You might also be able to pick up a medium aspect PTM926 cheap as well. Sail wise, a 5.6 will be a good addition to your 4 and 4.8.

Typical low wind threshold on this gear for a 85kg sailor is 10+kts. A 4.8 will need 13+kts and the 4.0 16+kts. Max wind threshold depending on your thirst for thrill would be 20+kts

I say with a non foil ready board, it's a $1000 vs $3000 question. I wouldn't use that board even with power plate unless u want to fix it, or only use very briefly for foiling

so if you really don't have the money it's easy answer. Your sails are very small for what that board can do.
if you are rich, do both a bigger sail and buy foil gear.