For those that don't use a foiling specific sail:

Presumably some regular sails are better for foiling than others. I know i wasn't super happy with my HSM superfreaks and switched to naish lift which I prefer much more generally, although it didn't feel so great yesterday when I was on my high speed wing (infinity 65) so I started wondering... and ran across this video



I have also heard the severne freak is favored by some

Any way which brands/models of regular sail do you like for foiling and why? I know this could turn into a pissing contest

I'm loving the Simmer Tricera's, a 3 batters wave sail.
Here's some of Summers take on these sails;

"The Tricera is the light-weight surf style sail, optimized for maximum freedom and maneuverability......This is the sail to fully express yourself in any angle of wind......"

Reckon it's those characteristics which make them perfect for my style of Freefoil carving

HSM KS3s are near perfect for foiling ??

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thedoor said..
For those that don't use a foiling specific sail:

Presumably some regular sails are better for foiling than others. I know i wasn't super happy with my HSM superfreaks and switched to naish lift which I prefer much more generally, although it didn't feel so great yesterday when I was on my high speed wing (infinity 65) so I started wondering... and ran across this video

I have also heard the severne freak is favored by some

Any way which brands/models of regular sail do you like for foiling and why? I know this could turn into a pissing contest

No pissing contest necessary? I e-mailed recently with the owner/designer of a major sail making brand and he says that unless you are racing and using a 8.0-9.0 square meters sail a regular windsurfing sail will work perfectly fine with a foil. You don't even need to rig it differently, maybe just a touch less down haul. Which is indeed my humble experience.

Just get something that has a bit more shape stability than a SuperFreak! Personally I am very happy with Point-7 ACX. My HSM KS3 depower a bit too easily and unpredictably on a foil, but it might be the driver problem (i.e. me).

Ben gave me some tips for rigging a Severne Blade for foiling. Main take aways:

1) Run the mast + extension about 10 cms more then recommended on the sail this will allow you to run the boom higher which creates more lift

2) Only downhaul enough to keep the leech just at the point were it stays tight. This will increase the low end drive

3) Outhaul about 2cm less then recommended on the sail. This will give you more low end drive

I have so far applied that to 6.2, 5.7, 5.3 and 4.7. Works quite well.

Well, there's 2 types of feelings one could want. Either you want to have the most lift possible, or you want to have a fast / light sail.

The most lift sail would be freestylesails and the like, I ride S2Maui, for me that would be the Jester, but the Freek is another example. These sails fly early, but overpower fast and the topspeed is limited. Once you build up speed these sails get heavier and heavier and stop accelerating. The same applies to any sail rigged the way stehsegler instructs.

I personally like fast/light sails more. In this category we're talking 4 batten wavesails mostly, for me the dragon, I'd say that is one of the best in this category, Phantom Iris W and North Hero are also good examples. I like the blade a little less, because it has very "feelable" power, which makes foiling less stable. A sail which is light will be forgotten in the hands. These sails will have a little less power to get flying, but more acceleration, a way higher top speed, a more stable preassure point and especially, they stay relatively light at any speed! If you are a good foiler, you'll most probably prefer the wavesails over the freestyle sails, for the difference in early planing can be made up with technique, but the difference in performance on the foil cannot.

I rig my sails like they are supposed to be rigged, they work better that way. If you rig a sail with little downhaul (like people always recommend somehow), the sail gets unstable, and every gust will pull you upright. The thing I do different with foiling compared to wave, is that with foiling pretty much as soon as I'm a little powered I pull max downhaul, and tune power with the outhaul. I sometimes do a little less than maximum (.5cm / 1/5th inch or so), if I have too little power, but I always keep a nice loose leech and would never rig the sails with less loose than they are designed to be used.

I run HSM QU4Ds for everything, foiling included. I find they foil best at their lowest marked DH setting and the middle for OH which is quite a lot of OH. When I've tried more DH it didn't feel like I gained top end but I did lose bottom end. I'm not a super fast foiler, more about carving and running the smallest possible sail.

I love my old frebbie garage saiils for learning or in the surf! Use what you got to start.
I have a lot of sessions (100 + ) on a 6.0 Flyer, it has been a great sail. Very draft stable and very light. The cons of the cams are not worth the extra draft stability for my style of sailing. I also felt it a bit gutless at the bottom of the range it doesn't pump well unless you under downhaul.
I recently picked up a 5.7 Fringe. Loving this at the moment. Rigs easy, super light, clear window. Big range (as much or more than the Flyer), it pumps well at the bottom end then the top of the sail luffs in the gusts so I can be carried pretty high in the wind range if needed. The draft is stable enough to not cause control issues. I set the downhual to the mark and tune it with the out haul. One thing I have noticed is that the harness lines need to move back more than usual for this size sail, no biggie. I am sure it is not the fastest but then niether is my big freeride wing so it is a good fit for me.

For freeriding and just having fun in the waves I use neil pryde raf jet(with bat wing technology) in sizes 5.2 and 4.2. I think they came out very early in this century. At my skill level and what kind of foiling I do I probably wouldn't be able tell the difference between my old sails and a newer one. Used my 4.2 in 25kts no problem; steady and maneuverable, downhauled as much as I physically can.

My favorite sail for stright out freeriding blasting is (again old) 6.0 neil pryde V8 steetracer twin cam, this sail is really good at powering through lulls and is locked in stable the faster you go and does not get over powered as quickly. Probably my favorite sail for foiling. Not saying there "the best non-foiling sails for freeride foiling" but they work well for me and don't cost$$$

I have used a new pryde 7.7 rs:one convertable foil sail. Great for ligh wind. Need for TOW to dial in.

Will try and test my friends ezzy hydras this summer and maybe even drag race

My favorite foiling sails are 1999-vintage Sailworks XT-Racing sails. 3-cam, fairly light, rigged the way they are supposed to be. Very stable, fast, but you need to use a stable foil under them because they accelerate well in the gusts, and can cause a lot of porpoising with some foils.

These are, however, in that class of cammed super-stable foiling sails that performance much differently than the light no-cam 3-batten sails people like a lot.

I still use cammed and no-cam sails for foiling and have not decided which works better for my particular type of foiling. Gosh, I have not even figured out my particular type of foiling yet, either, after three years. LOL Learning all this is part of the fun of this sport.

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nimo1972 said..
HSM KS3s are near perfect for foiling ??

Tony Logosz before the current Goya Fringe 3 battens was on HSM KS3I'm using KS3 freeriding and wave riding (both foil and fin).Rigging is different (checked with Jeff from HSM) when foiling, use minimum downhaul and max outhaul. What that does is produce a very powerful sail for initial pumping, but becomes transparent as you pick up speed with the max outhaul. This also allows for a smaller sail requirement.

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2keen said..
I'm loving the Simmer Tricera's, a 3 batters wave sail.
Here's some of Summers take on these sails;

"The Tricera is the light-weight surf style sail, optimized for maximum freedom and maneuverability......This is the sail to fully express yourself in any angle of wind......"

Reckon it's those characteristics which make them perfect for my style of Freefoil carving

Agree with Simon - stoked with the 3 batten Simmer Triceras - light, powerful and tough.
Surprised how much I prefer them to my 4 batten sails.
Agree with WOH - I rig them like regular wave sails. Tried less downhaul for tighter leach but found it pushes the nose down and the sail feels less responsive

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WhiteofHeart said..
Well, there's 2 types of feelings one could want. Either you want to have the most lift possible, or you want to have a fast / light sail.

The most lift sail would be freestylesails and the like, I ride S2Maui, for me that would be the Jester, but the Freek is another example. These sails fly early, but overpower fast and the topspeed is limited. Once you build up speed these sails get heavier and heavier and stop accelerating. The same applies to any sail rigged the way stehsegler instructs.

I personally like fast/light sails more. In this category we're talking 4 batten wavesails mostly, for me the dragon, I'd say that is one of the best in this category, Phantom Iris W and North Hero are also good examples. I like the blade a little less, because it has very "feelable" power, which makes foiling less stable. A sail which is light will be forgotten in the hands. These sails will have a little less power to get flying, but more acceleration, a way higher top speed, a more stable preassure point and especially, they stay relatively light at any speed! If you are a good foiler, you'll most probably prefer the wavesails over the freestyle sails, for the difference in early planing can be made up with technique, but the difference in performance on the foil cannot.

I rig my sails like they are supposed to be rigged, they work better that way. If you rig a sail with little downhaul (like people always recommend somehow), the sail gets unstable, and every gust will pull you upright. The thing I do different with foiling compared to wave, is that with foiling pretty much as soon as I'm a little powered I pull max downhaul, and tune power with the outhaul. I sometimes do a little less than maximum (.5cm / 1/5th inch or so), if I have too little power, but I always keep a nice loose leech and would never rig the sails with less loose than they are designed to be used.

I think this is the answer I was looking for especially for my highspeed wing as I need to rig a sail size closer to what a bump and jump slapper would rig, so in this set up I am less worried about flying early (which my naish lifts do) but am more interested in the sail staying manageable at high speed (which at least the other day the naish lift didn't). So based on the above i should probably go with a couple of wave sails.

On my bigger wing I like the naish lift as it pumps onto the foil really good, and as my top speed is less maybe the combo of lower top speed and smaller sail results in less of the unmanageable feeling.

Anyone want to comment on 3 batten versus 4 batten wavesails?

I use a 6.3 Fringe and 5.7 Banzai for foiling and find the Banzai a little more stable in gusty conditions.
The Fringe feels a little more reactive in pumping.
But both facts may depend on the two different sailsizes.

Both sails are fine for foiling though.

Btw. For lightwind freeracing I use a 6.9 Goya Nexus, more stable and more power than the 6.3 Fringe. More static profile, lower aspect ratio, lower foot in the Nexus.

All rigged to specs like WHO wrote, only in very marginal conditions I put on less downhaul.

Alex

I'm still learning but I find the Severne Gator 6m works well.

I find rigging the right sized sail in STEADY breeze the biggest factor for good windfoiling.
Having tried everything from 4 camber race slalom sails to Superfreaks and everything in between.
And almost as important is the pilot having a good day, is aware, is flexible to adapt, and adapts to the different conditions.

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nimo1972 said..
HSM KS3s are near perfect for foiling ??

Is that a question or statement?

I have used various Severnes when foiling - everything from Blade, Gator, Convert, NCX, Turbo, OD, Reflex, to HG 9.0

They all work - only general rule for me is foil specific sails work better than "normal" sails if you go underpowered/smallest size possible or wind is light, as foil shapes pump better/power up with less wind pressure

Freestyle sails may do this too

Door, I'm with you at the light wind end of the spectrum. My main reason for foiling is to get going in sub 12 knots of wind. I have no interest in setting speed records on foils. The foil I use now is a Naish 1570cm which develops heaps of lift but it doesn't have a fast top end. I used to use a 6m severne gator and 5.3m North Volt (both 5 batten wavesails). Both rigged full rather than flat and they worked well. For when the wind gets above 15 knots, I go to a REALLY crappy old NP combat Wave 4.5m and downhaul the bejeezus out of it to keep the sail power down.
Lat year I forked out a fair bit to get a Naish 5.7 lift (3 batten). I instantly recognised how well it extended the lower limits of take off (down another 1-2 knots to get flying) and yeah, it is great to pump the foil to get flying. The compromise is the lift becomes a real handful when overpowered (so when it gets above 15 knots for me). The other wave sails are much more controlable when the wind gets up.
I also have a severne NCX 6.5 which is a heavyish freeride non-cammed sail with 7 battens. I felt it didn't get me up and going quicker than the 6m gator, but would have a higher top end (which wasn't what I wanted). So for foiling, it's totally redundant to me.

1997 Sailworks Revo 5.8.

I first used this sail on pretty big day at Margret River (Jan 1998) and got rinsed pretty good with it on a mast high set!
It ripped the mast cap off but no panel damage.

23 years later I use it for foiling on a lake and it works amazingly well!

It sets on a 460 mast so its a "high aspect", but it is getting fragile now so I use it only on special days.
The other sails I use are Naish force 5 (onshore wave) you can set with little downhaul and very pumpable.

The biggest sail I take with me with the i99 wing is the Naish sprint 5.8

I sold a ton of 90's slalom sails for next to nothin and I wish I had kept a few for foiling. Here's my mid-90's North Convertigo 5.7. Very high aspect single cam sail. I rig it on an especially flexy 460 for low downhaul tension. Leech stays relatively tight. Single cam adds some depth, power and stability. Perfect for 15 knots wind on my Levitator and I76. The luff material is old laminated nylon/mylar that is delaminating now but the sail is otherwise robust for its age. Hopefully get another year out of it before adding to my Hydra quiver.

+1 for my 4.0 Zeta, 4.2 Voodoo, 4.7 Convert, 5.2 Convert, 5.7 Rave, and 6.5 Pyro for foiling.

They work as well as my Duotone S Sessions 4.8 and 5.2.

This video is a few years old but I found it helped me when rigging my sails old sails for foiling
Bruces's reasoning also made sense to me

I use my 2019 Ezzy Elite it seems 75% of the time, I also only WWF foil. If it's fresh, I rig it tight and love the feel. But if it's marginal, I rig it super full, more than I'd normally wavesail with and I'm surprised how soon I can get up. Huge range. I also have a 5.7 Fringe which is nice as well that I can get a touch more grunt out of, but that sails down haul has to be rigged to spec and as previously posted you play w the outhaul just enough to get easy batten rotation.

I use my 2019 Ezzy Elite it seems 75% of the time, I also only WWF foil. If it's fresh I rig it tight and love the feel. But if it's marginal, I rig it super full, more than I'd normally wavesail with and I'm surprised how soon I can get up. Huge range. I also have a 5.7 Fringe which is mice as well that I can get a touch more grunt out of, but that sails down haul has to be rigged to spec and as previously posted you play w the outhaul just enough to get easy batten rotation.

WOH makes some good points about different preferences. Knowing what you are looking for is important in matching your gear to your needs.

I normally foil in lighter winds, so my favorite is the S2Maui Jeter. I can use a 4.0 and get going in pretty light winds. I like the high, forward draft of freestyle sails as opposed to the low and back draft of modern 3 & 4 batten wave sails. I actually bought a quiver of 3-batten S2Maui Catalysts for foiling last year, as they are super light, but I preferred the power, pump ability, and shorter booms of the Jester freestyle sails. I got Jesters and Dragons this year, so will try the Dragons and see how I like them.... but I've converted a few foilers here to freestyle sails, and we seem to be having a good time. Looking forward to testing the 4.2 and 3.8 Dragons though!

I'm now recycling my old Sailworks Huckers as Foil sails. They were already renowned for their power due to the tight leech. I'm now rigging them on stiffer masts to tighten them up even more. The 4.8 is sweet in 12+

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sunsetsailboards said..
WOH makes some good points about different preferences. Knowing what you are looking for is important in matching your gear to your needs.

I normally foil in lighter winds, so my favorite is the S2Maui Jeter. I can use a 4.0 and get going in pretty light winds. I like the high, forward draft of freestyle sails as opposed to the low and back draft of modern 3 & 4 batten wave sails. I actually bought a quiver of 3-batten S2Maui Catalysts for foiling last year, as they are super light, but I preferred the power, pump ability, and shorter booms of the Jester freestyle sails. I got Jesters and Dragons this year, so will try the Dragons and see how I like them.... but I've converted a few foilers here to freestyle sails, and we seem to be having a good time. Looking forward to testing the 4.2 and 3.8 Dragons though!

The Dragons are awesome!! Compared to most other wavesails (any brand) they take a little getting used to, because the power is not very "present", even though it is there! After using them for a while I like them more than any other sail I've tried for foiling, including the Jester. I get amazing low-end, top-end, speed and it stays very very light to use in all those different conditions. Dont be afraid to thighten the downhaul to regular windsurfing / little thighter, and to set your outhaul without any slack if you have enough power. It might feel too "light" or "powerless" in the beginning, but after using them for a while you'll feel the power is there, and its a very efficient powerdelivery. If its light you can rig it with about 1cm less downhaul (not too little!) and it will be a powerhouse, only slightly (1 knot?) behind the Jester in terms of early planing, but twice the windrange and especially speedrange.

I personally like my 4.9 most, in any condition (from gusty/lully 8 to 12-13knots, to a perfect 13-14 knots all the way upto 25+ in the gusts), as its a little bit softer than the 3.8 and 3.0, but can be tuned to be insanely draft stable (like the 3.8 and 3.0) aswell! The 3.8 and 3.0 work most their magic when they're a little powered up (for a 75-85kg rider when its slalom with 7.0-7.8's for 3.8 and 6.3-7.0 for 3.0), but that might also have to do with the fact that those sails become quite small for my (already tiny) 72x180cm foilboard. I have yet to pick up my 4.2, so cant comment on that.

Funny thing is though, I think we might be on opposite ends of the same scale in terms of preference, even though I do also foil alot in quite light winds. Pretty much independent of conditions I only have to pump up on the foil once every 25km or so at most and fly 98-100% of my jibes each session so maybe that explains my preference for a lighter / faster sail at the expense of a little raw power.

might be easier to ask what sail does 'not work

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tonyk said..
might be easier to ask what sail does 'not work