Hi guys, trying to get a board set-up & comfortable so as I'm not wasting time battling a wrong set-up.
I had a couple of goes on a 105L foil board & had reasonable success straight off.
I have converted a 120L 72 wide Free-ride board & moved the foot straps inboard.
I have installed 10.5" long US boxes to give me a bit of adjustment rather than have a fin box in the wrong spot for foiling.
Note: the US boxes are a tad behind the back of the power box so still go a fair bit in front of the box. (see photo)
I am using a foil that is proven to work well on a foil board with a competent pilot.

Yesterday I started out with the foil central in the tracks & mast base central in the mast track, this did not feel right, however it was the first time on this board & sail.
I then changed the foil to as far forward as possible & mast base as far forward to about 3/4 of track length.
This set-up felt better although it could have been that I was getting used to the new kit.
My concern was that the foot straps seemed a long way back from my foot position.
Today I'm planning to try the front strap, starting with the foil & mast base completely forward.
It is a big effort to get in & out of the water to make changes when you don't even know what will happen

Suggestions on starting positions would be appreciated.
Questions:
Mast base position, forward - back, what does this change?
Foil position, forward - back, how does this affect things?
Foil position in relation to back foot?
I want to work around the original foot strap positions for obvious reasons.

I'm sure this has all been covered somewhere previously but some quick basic answers could really help.

www.windfoilzone.com/post/the-best-windfoil-tuning-tips

Start with COE of front foil directly between your feet...feet around 22" apart.

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AUS 808 said..
Hi guys, trying to get a board set-up & comfortable so as I'm not wasting time battling a wrong set-up.
I had a couple of goes on a 105L foil board & had reasonable success straight off.
I have converted a 120L 72 wide Free-ride board & moved the foot straps inboard.
I have installed 10.5" long US boxes to give me a bit of adjustment rather than have a fin box in the wrong spot for foiling.
Note: the US boxes are a tad behind the back of the power box so still go a fair bit in front of the box. (see photo)
I am using a foil that is proven to work well on a foil board with a competent pilot.

Yesterday I started out with the foil central in the tracks & mast base central in the mast track, this did not feel right, however it was the first time on this board & sail.
I then changed the foil to as far forward as possible & mast base as far forward to about 3/4 of track length.
This set-up felt better although it could have been that I was getting used to the new kit.
My concern was that the foot straps seemed a long way back from my foot position.
Today I'm planning to try the front strap, starting with the foil & mast base completely forward.
It is a big effort to get in & out of the water to make changes when you don't even know what will happen

Suggestions on starting positions would be appreciated.
Questions:
Mast base position, forward - back, what does this change?
Foil position, forward - back, how does this affect things?
Foil position in relation to back foot?
I want to work around the original foot strap positions for obvious reasons.

I'm sure this has all been covered somewhere previously but some quick basic answers could really help.

Paul - take a pix of the deck and foil - be good to see the straps, mast base position and wing size/COE to have a guess at your questions

Gday Aus. I found when learning, having the foil mast far forwards puts the centre of lift of the foil further forwards, so may help with getting your feet in the footstraps? I also have the footstraps inboards. I have the mast (of the sail) a fair way back in the track, and from there, I can jam my front foot into the footstrap and pump the sail to get the board to lift in light conditions.
When I had the mast track (for the sail) forwards, I really struggled to get my front foot into the strap so that I could pump the sail and get the foil to fly.
When you say it didn't feel right, what do you mean? If you kept touching down, then there may be a bit too much weight forward (so move things back a touch)? Did it erupt out of the water really quickly and cavitate? If so, the wind may have been too strong for sail size. Are you foiling in choppy conditions? That not easy either.
It is tricky getting things set up right. It is worth the time to use the gear for a while (10-15 mins), then come in, change 1 thing a bit and see what it's like. Then you'll start to get a feel of what works and what doesn't. Time on water is the big thing.
The other thing that may assist is foil mast length. Shortish (60-70cm) is often good for learning as you're not flying as high. You'll probably touch down a bit more often, but the shorter length also means there's a bit less leverage and sensitivity over the foil, so footsteering will be less aggressive and control will be a bit easier.
As for footstraps, I reckon have them inboard and try to stand over the top of the foil, rather than having them out on the rail. When you get better, having them on the rail will mean you can really start to utilise that leverage to get better efficient sailing. But for learning, bring them in to the centre of the board.
Good luck. Keep asking questions too.

Tough to mongrel mismatched parts together, throw in a new to the sport pilot, and not say what ALL of the parts are.....and expect a solution.

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azymuth said..

AUS 808 said..
Hi guys, trying to get a board set-up & comfortable so as I'm not wasting time battling a wrong set-up.
I had a couple of goes on a 105L foil board & had reasonable success straight off.
I have converted a 120L 72 wide Free-ride board & moved the foot straps inboard.
I have installed 10.5" long US boxes to give me a bit of adjustment rather than have a fin box in the wrong spot for foiling.
Note: the US boxes are a tad behind the back of the power box so still go a fair bit in front of the box. (see photo)
I am using a foil that is proven to work well on a foil board with a competent pilot.

Yesterday I started out with the foil central in the tracks & mast base central in the mast track, this did not feel right, however it was the first time on this board & sail.
I then changed the foil to as far forward as possible & mast base as far forward to about 3/4 of track length.
This set-up felt better although it could have been that I was getting used to the new kit.
My concern was that the foot straps seemed a long way back from my foot position.
Today I'm planning to try the front strap, starting with the foil & mast base completely forward.
It is a big effort to get in & out of the water to make changes when you don't even know what will happen

Suggestions on starting positions would be appreciated.
Questions:
Mast base position, forward - back, what does this change?
Foil position, forward - back, how does this affect things?
Foil position in relation to back foot?
I want to work around the original foot strap positions for obvious reasons.

I'm sure this has all been covered somewhere previously but some quick basic answers could really help.

Paul - take a pix of the deck and foil - be good to see the straps, mast base position and wing size/COE to have a guess at your questions

JJ, I went out today but too light to fly properly, a few flights but pumping the sail to keep flying.
I had the foil right forward which has the COE smack in the middle of the foot straps.
I put the mast base forward initially but had trouble keeping the nose up while flying.
Adjusted the mast base back but the wind dropped out by then.
Today I felt more like the pilot, yesterday more like a passenger

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LeeD said..
Tough to mongrel mismatched parts together, throw in a new to the sport pilot, and not say what ALL of the parts are.....and expect a solution.

I don't think I asked for a solution, I asked what each adjustment would do so as I could then know what to expect from the changes.
It's not compulsory to contribute

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AUS 808 said..
Hi guys, trying to get a board set-up & comfortable so as I'm not wasting time battling a wrong set-up.
I had a couple of goes on a 105L foil board & had reasonable success straight off.
I have converted a 120L 72 wide Free-ride board & moved the foot straps inboard.
I have installed 10.5" long US boxes to give me a bit of adjustment rather than have a fin box in the wrong spot for foiling.
Note: the US boxes are a tad behind the back of the power box so still go a fair bit in front of the box. (see photo)
I am using a foil that is proven to work well on a foil board with a competent pilot.

Yesterday I started out with the foil central in the tracks & mast base central in the mast track, this did not feel right, however it was the first time on this board & sail.
I then changed the foil to as far forward as possible & mast base as far forward to about 3/4 of track length.
This set-up felt better although it could have been that I was getting used to the new kit.
My concern was that the foot straps seemed a long way back from my foot position.
Today I'm planning to try the front strap, starting with the foil & mast base completely forward.
It is a big effort to get in & out of the water to make changes when you don't even know what will happen

Suggestions on starting positions would be appreciated.
Questions:
Mast base position, forward - back, what does this change?
Foil position, forward - back, how does this affect things?
Foil position in relation to back foot?
I want to work around the original foot strap positions for obvious reasons.

I'm sure this has all been covered somewhere previously but some quick basic answers could really help.

Hi Mate
come down to fville on Friday arvo
i can jump on and give you my 1cents worth And try and save you some time.

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snides8 said..

Hi Mate

come down to fville on Friday arvo
i can jump on and give you my 1cents worth And try and save you some time.

Now there's a plan! If you have the setup in the ballpark then its just a matter of time on the water.

You mentioned "it could have been that I was getting used to the new kit", I reckon I spent a lot of time making changes and thinking it was an improvement but it was just me getting used to the gear. I've now gone back to having everything in the middle. Tomorrow I hope to try a new foil so it will be back to the drawing board.

Select to expand quote

snides8 said..

AUS 808 said..
Hi guys, trying to get a board set-up & comfortable so as I'm not wasting time battling a wrong set-up.
I had a couple of goes on a 105L foil board & had reasonable success straight off.
I have converted a 120L 72 wide Free-ride board & moved the foot straps inboard.
I have installed 10.5" long US boxes to give me a bit of adjustment rather than have a fin box in the wrong spot for foiling.
Note: the US boxes are a tad behind the back of the power box so still go a fair bit in front of the box. (see photo)
I am using a foil that is proven to work well on a foil board with a competent pilot.

Yesterday I started out with the foil central in the tracks & mast base central in the mast track, this did not feel right, however it was the first time on this board & sail.
I then changed the foil to as far forward as possible & mast base as far forward to about 3/4 of track length.
This set-up felt better although it could have been that I was getting used to the new kit.
My concern was that the foot straps seemed a long way back from my foot position.
Today I'm planning to try the front strap, starting with the foil & mast base completely forward.
It is a big effort to get in & out of the water to make changes when you don't even know what will happen

Suggestions on starting positions would be appreciated.
Questions:
Mast base position, forward - back, what does this change?
Foil position, forward - back, how does this affect things?
Foil position in relation to back foot?
I want to work around the original foot strap positions for obvious reasons.

I'm sure this has all been covered somewhere previously but some quick basic answers could really help.

Hi Mate
come down to fville on Friday arvo
i can jump on and give you my 1cents worth And try and save you some time.

Thanks Snides, I'll drop down, although by then I was hoping to be gybing

Select to expand quote

remery said..

snides8 said..

Hi Mate

come down to fville on Friday arvo
i can jump on and give you my 1cents worth And try and save you some time.

Now there's a plan! If you have the setup in the ballpark then its just a matter of time on the water.

You mentioned "it could have been that I was getting used to the new kit", I reckon I spent a lot of time making changes and thinking it was an improvement but it was just me getting used to the gear. I've now gone back to having everything in the middle. Tomorrow I hope to try a new foil so it will be back to the drawing board.

Today felt a lot more normal, if I had got flying more I would have been in the harness, it just felt like I should hook in, although I had no idea how that might end up
I'm thinking it's just TOW.

If it goes bad I can always blame Snides then

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AUS 808 said..I'm thinking it's just TOW.

Yep - that's the secret ...as long as you've got a suitable board / foil and it's reasonably balanced.

Your kit looks great, COE is perfect. You might move the foil back an inch in stronger winds.
Rear strap over the mast is good, I would install the front and rear straps in the inboard holes, can't see in your pix.

I'd install the front footstraps as far forward as possible.
My footstrap spacing is 44cm which allows max weight transfer to pump up (weight rear) and control lift (weight fwd).

Mast base position is intuitive - rear light winds, forward to aid control in heavy winds - doesn't make a huge difference.

I reckon ideally you want about 15 -18 knots and 5m sail to learn - waterstart rather than uphaul and no need to pump!

Relax and enjoy the learning process - how lucky are we after all these years of windsurfing to have a completely new challenge

Rather than guessing your balance points, just measure them, then adjust accordingly. If your mast is 90 degrees straight up and down, you don't need a right-angle tool like I showed in the video. Most foils are close to 90 degrees, but my AFS-2 has a big forward rake.

So, if you start with the settings in the video, you have a good starting point that works. You will fly. You can then adjust footstraps, mast base position, and even foil position in some cases such as tracks.

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AUS 808 said..
Suggestions on starting positions would be appreciated.
Questions:
Mast base position, forward - back, what does this change?
Foil position, forward - back, how does this affect things?
Foil position in relation to back foot?
I want to work around the original foot strap positions for obvious reasons.

I think you got this covered already...

Mast base backward does two things, it obviously makes it easier to lift onto the foil (think of it like a sew-saw), but I feels that moving the mast track back closer to the straps makes the board more maneuverable (turny), which isn't always good for learning. (I am not sure the physics of why this happens..)

Foil forward relative to your feet means that it takes much less back foot pressure to pop up onto the foil and less back foot pressure to stay on the foil. Having the foil forward will increase the risk of overfoiling and breaching. Beginners often learn to shift their backfoot forward during gusts to avoid this. More advance riders have other tricks (turning up wind, strong front foot pressure works if you have inboard straps and a mast base that is relatively close to your front strap, and I think race foilers have a way to increase mast foot pressure to keep the nose down?)

COE is the first, most important thing.
I mentioned it.
Then light steady wind around 10-15 is needed.
Then, pilot skill can develop.
Then a less smug attitude towards those helping you.

Your wing position looks good, between where it is now and 2,5cm further back would be a good starting range. In the end there is no right answer, I think a wider stance (front strap forward) is a little more controllable, but you shouldnt be afraid to move your front foot back if you feel you are missing power.

Mastfoot as far back as it goes is the best starting point. That allows you to keep the sail more upright, with your height control being more with your weight than your sail, which is easier.

Putting the wing centered between your feet would be a bad idea, you have a lot of weight on the mastfoot while surfing, so in practice that would be too far back, I've been trying to tell Segler for ages his video is wrong but he's a very stubborn man just like me... I run my wings with the deepest point of the profile at 2/3rd forward between the straps for freeride and 3/4th for racing.

Setup advice is a start point, not final tuning.
As a relative beginner at windfoil, 76 days, I find I foil the same with almost any setup the Naish allows.
Even strapless, or any spectrum of setup works.
Every extreme setup takes a few acclimation hours, yes, but it can be made to work.
Wind is still the most important.

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LeeD said..
COE is the first, most important thing.
I mentioned it.
Then light steady wind around 10-15 is needed.
Then, pilot skill can develop.
Then a less smug attitude towards those helping you.

Not being smug at all, if you don't know & can't answer my 3 simple questions then don't get involved, simple really.
Others have been able to answer directly and much appreciated.
Now I know what these changes will do I can then decide what I might change to tune my kit.

Very Basic Questions:
1. Mast base position, forward - back, what does this change?
2. Foil position, forward - back, how does this affect things?
3. Foil position in relation to back foot?

Hey Aus
If you're going down this arvo we can meet up and compare notes if you like.
i'll be 500m down the road at kiterville. Bit more room to play there.
I'm like you, just getting my 'mongrel kit' all balanced but i'm flying 400m now in relative comfort with less pucker moments.
No footstraps.
cheers
Wayne

Aussie 808, you are struggling.
I can foil for miles with any of your changes within my Naish setup.
I prefer a certain setting of each.
Others with Naish use DIFFERENT settings.
Close to same weight and conditions.
Personal preferences.
That's why I hesitate to recommend more than a starting point.
YOU have to decide for you.

LeeD yet again youre making a forum topic about sailing into a topic of what a hero you are. Nobody gives a rats backside about what you can do. I think Aus808 has asked questions to which many have provided feedback. if you can't answer, then don't. We don't need to hear or care for what you can do on your naish.
we're not interested in you.

you're not my hero.

You got to know if the suggested setup works, don't you?

If it's any help. This is the setup I'm using on the new Naish 1150, I kept the settings the same as the WS1. I have the (sail) mast 2/3 back. It flys easily and is more stable and comfortable. Skill-wise I have a long way to go, but almost made a couple of full foiling gybes yesterday. If you need I can take a photo at a better angle.

Thanks for the pic.
It shows COE of front foil biased towards back strap slightly.
I wonder how that position works with the sail base 2/3rd forward, to simulate a Freeide windsurf position.
I wonder how sail mast position is affected by foil COE?

I used to have the sail mast further forward but found I was twisted forward and uncomfortable, moving it back I can now lean out in more normal fashion.

I have the 1150 foil mast in the same position as the WS1. I should have paid more attention to whether or not the front wing ends up in the same position. Fortunately I took a couple of photos.