AFS foil. What's your thoughts on the new afs line? They removed the previous version of their slalom and race front wings and now only offers the free ride or new shape for the race wing?

I posted on this under "AFS has a new foil", someone replied who has the newest foil. Website says it is for slalom racing. My old W95 is solid, new is all solid carbon wings/fuselage/mast.

The only issue with the current 85 cm freeride foil is it has the same wing/stab. mounts as my W95, and I had to shim the stab. on the side to make it perfectly square with the mast, and then had to shim each wing with clear tape on one side to make the wings perfectly level with the stab., really makes a difference when everything is aligned. Not a big issue to do it, and I used it for 1-1/2 years without having it aligned, and did not notice a problem. And not all W95 foils had the stab. issue, so maybe the freeride 85 cm foils are fine.

Now on the new foils with 95 and 105 cm masts, the wing/stab. mounts on fuselage are wider, and that should help keep everything aligned, but I have not seen one in person.

here is a 2022 review of the AFS foil

www.windsurf.co.uk/afs-windfoil-range-2022-test-review/

Question about AFS foil - there is a good variety of larger wings available, for instance the F1030 and the R800 using the latest naming convention - but how do the larger more modern wings go with the relatively dated 88cm fuselage ?

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timbat said..
Question about AFS foil - there is a good variety of larger wings available, for instance the F1030 and the R800 using the latest naming convention - but how do the larger more modern wings go with the relatively dated 88cm fuselage ?

The new wings fit the old 88 cm fuselage, old wings like F1080/F770 (F800/F700) do NOT fit the new 95 and 105 cm fuselages. But since new wings have a wider saddle, on the old 88 cm fuselage there will be exposed saddle on both sides of fuselage that could disrupt the flow of water. But I have not mounted a new wing on the old fuselage, so really just guessing.

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timbat said..
Question about AFS foil - there is a good variety of larger wings available, for instance the F1030 and the R800 using the latest naming convention - but how do the larger more modern wings go with the relatively dated 88cm fuselage ?

The F and R series wings and foils differ in attachment. The F series uses the old traditional "dated" fuse and the wings are shaped to fit the more rounded fuse. The R series fuses are a bit more square and won't (according to AFS) fit the older wings. I think the same issue exists retrofitting the new R series wings to the old fuse design. btw, I assume you are referring to the F1080?

I have the F1080 (nee F800) on the old style fuse but with the 95cm mast that's no longer available. It's a wonderful freeride foil for especially lighter riders (say 800 kg or less). I haven't seen the SABFoil 799 up close but they seem similar in plan view. The F1080 is pretty thin so pretty slippery for a bigger wing. The "dated" geometry still holds up very well probably because of the proper sizing and angle of the stab. It's quite stable, similar to my IQFoil and more than a SS Infinity 76 yet carves enough to get praise from my winging friends.

The new AFS R wings are more freerace oriented. Very fast - certainly capable of 30+ kt speeds. Not PWA podium fast but that's not their market at the moment. As we're seeing, that requires more and more expensive thin and high modulus CF masts where AFS is staying in the affordable performance lane along with, say, the Phantom X line.

Lots of good info in this thread - use google translate, etc if your French is like mine: www.windsurfing33.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=108706&start=1485

Paducah said "The R series fuses are a bit more square and won't (according to AFS) fit the older wings.", My understanding is the newest 95 and 105 fuselages have the same saddle contour for the wings, but are wider. So the F1080/F770 wings will not fit on those newer fuselages because the F1080/F770 wing saddles are too narrow, but the new race wings with a wider saddle will fit on the 88 cm fuselage that they still make with an 85 cm mast, that foil is a bargain.

In a world of 115cm fuselages, the AFS 88cm fuselage still has a place ?

I have the latest AFS windfoils. If you have any specific questions please ask. You can see a lot of information here - sailrepair.co.uk/1556-2/

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timbat said..
In a world of 115cm fuselages, the AFS 88cm fuselage still has a place ?

I think so!, have not used a longer fuse, but happy with the 88 cm fuse on my W95 foil, easy to move and carve tight turns. That comes in handy when a kite foiler make a gybe right in front of you and heads back towards you cutting across your line.

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Sailrepair said..
I have the latest AFS windfoils. If you have any specific questions please ask. You can see a lot of information here - sailrepair.co.uk/1556-2/

This has been a great resource already! Thanks. I've got a 115cm fuse on a foil that is a dead end. The good range of wings in AFS is a big bonus and I have a W85 mast and 88cm fuse, albeit with the Bic Techno Foil wings and stab, and they were very resonant, so slightly scared off.

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timbat said..
In a world of 115cm fuselages, the AFS 88cm fuselage still has a place ?

Yes. The115cm fuselages are designed so that a smaller stab (lower drag) still provides "power" to keep flying at lower speeds going upwind. It's like having a larger child on the shorter side of a teeter totter and a smaller child on a longer one. Fuses for slalom (ie reaching) where outright speed is more important than lower speed lift use shorter fuses in the 100-105 cm range generally.
Since the objective of the AFS 85 is freefoiling, the last bit of speed lost by a larger stabilizer/wing isn't relevant. It remains an easy and stable platform. Switching between a 115cm (plus) race fuse and my AFS95, I find no noticeable difference in stability.
Sailrepair's link above gives good additional info about the differences. Where the AFS shines compared to the longer fused, smaller wing options is more forgiving at low end (see Sailrepairs comments about small wings just dropping when below wind minimums) and it's shorter length makes shorter, sharper jibes easier - again, especially helpful in light air with a small sail.

timbat wrote: "In a world of 115cm fuselages, the AFS 88cm fuselage still has a place ?"

Actually my observation is that we live in a world of 90 cm fuselages. When I windfoil in the Columbia Gorge or Florida, 90 cm (+- 5 cm) is pretty much all I see.

The 115 cm fuselages are popular for racing. Yes, with proper mounting they are great for freeriding, too. You always have to get the front wing somewhere near the mid point between your feet (balance). That can be a challenge with 115 cm fuselages. And, yes, the longer moment arm for smaller stabs and greater stability is great. I have a SAB 110 cm fuselage with 900 wing and 425 stab. In order to balance it, I had to get a custom board with the DT box further aft than what you nowadays usually find in foil boards.

By the way, this applies only to windfoiling. For wing and kite, the dynamics is completely different, and fuselages are shorter.

115cm fuselages specifically exist to NOT put the wing between your feet. But that's for intermediate or advanced foilers going for VMG, not beginners mowing the lawn.

There are a LOT of lawn mowers out there using 115 cm fuselages and negative shimming. Seattle, for example. Many of them are using big slalom boards or formula boards with the DT box further aft than with foil boards. This balances the wing for freeride foiling. It's a kludge, but it works for them.

For freeride windfoiling, stick with the ~90 cm range for fuselage length. Your life will be easier.

Case in point. A Seattle windfoiler, named GR, foils with this: SB team set 725, 115+, 255(-2 shim), iSonic 127 with sails ranging from 4.2 to 6.2. The iSonic 127 (a fin board) typically has the DT box far aft such that the SB Team Set (front wing further forward of the mast than do the freeride foils) front wing is balanced between his feet. This works. He does not foil with anything else these days.

He is fast and good, and makes his jibes.

Anyone know anything about the AFS s940 or r940 wing ?

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timbat said..
Anyone know anything about the AFS s940 or r940 wing ?

Or was it called the s950 ? Which became the s-840 with their naming area convention change ?

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timbat said..
Anyone know anything about the AFS s940 or r940 wing ?

Those wings have been discontinued. The old "Slalom" and "Race" wing series have been replaced by the one range.

Anyone have a good source for AFS parts ? I'm after the 280 stabiliser which was designed for the S940 wings, which have been discontinued.

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timbat said..
Anyone have a good source for AFS parts ? I'm after the 280 stabiliser which was designed for the S940 wings, which have been discontinued.

Contact AFS, they may have a spare, or a replacement that will work.

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segler said..
There are a LOT of lawn mowers out there using 115 cm fuselages and negative shimming. Seattle, for example. Many of them are using big slalom boards or formula boards with the DT box further aft than with foil boards. This balances the wing for freeride foiling. It's a kludge, but it works for them.

For freeride windfoiling, stick with the ~90 cm range for fuselage length. Your life will be easier.

Agree, I've tried the 115+ unsuccessfully for freeride mowing the lawn with JP135, 800/ 255 wings and 6-7m sails. Footstraps and mast base all the way forward and a lot of body language to try to control the lift. I despise it, really hard to control unless going hard up or down wind (what it's for). It's not for me, it's going in the bin!

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Stretchy said..
Agree, I've tried the 115+ unsuccessfully for freeride mowing the lawn with JP135, 800/ 255 wings and 6-7m sails. Footstraps and mast base all the way forward and a lot of body language to try to control the lift. I despise it, really hard to control unless going hard up or down wind (what it's for). It's not for me, it's going in the bin!

What stab/shim?

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Stretchy said..It's not for me, it's going in the back of Subsonics van!

I fixed that for you.

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Paducah said..

Stretchy said..
Agree, I've tried the 115+ unsuccessfully for freeride mowing the lawn with JP135, 800/ 255 wings and 6-7m sails. Footstraps and mast base all the way forward and a lot of body language to try to control the lift. I despise it, really hard to control unless going hard up or down wind (what it's for). It's not for me, it's going in the bin!

What stab/shim?

255 -2

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Subsonic said..

Stretchy said..It's not for me, it's going in the back of Subsonics van!

I fixed that for you.

Thanks

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Stretchy said..

Paducah said..

Stretchy said..
Agree, I've tried the 115+ unsuccessfully for freeride mowing the lawn with JP135, 800/ 255 wings and 6-7m sails. Footstraps and mast base all the way forward and a lot of body language to try to control the lift. I despise it, really hard to control unless going hard up or down wind (what it's for). It's not for me, it's going in the bin!

What stab/shim?

255 -2

iirc, the back straps on the 135 are pretty far back. I think it's from an era of foils that were pretty "back footy". I freeride my 900/255-2 (+0.5) with a 6.9 and don't find it uncontrollable at all even on decently powered reach and I'm fairly light. Back foot is probably just a bit in front of the front tuttle screw. I'd have to go look to make sure. But, happy for Subsonic.

Oh, just thought I would mention that on the AFS W95 foil the length of the fuse. from the leading edge of the F1080 wing to the trailing edge of the stab. is 81.5 cm, while the overall length of the fuse. is 88 cm due to the overhanging nose and tail.