Hi Seabreeze legends

What is the easiest mast base to move while on the water? All my screw based bases can't be adjusted on the water and need the board to be at 90 degrees to allow movement.

For foil trim, I want to be able to move the sail back/forward by 5mm at a time, easily!

Thanks
Berowne

this one should do the trick, I use the full mechanical

Yes, the Chinook is great. But with big sails it can get to its limits

Select to expand quote

PatK said..
Yes, the Chinook is great. But with big sails it can get to its limits

Pat
what do you mean?? does it get overloaded and buckle over?

I use this one and am very happy with it!

Well, acutally I have the two bolt version as the single bolt version was sold out, but also no pain in the butt to make changes on the fly!

The only thing: there has been a faulty series where the rubber tendon has been faulty and could wear out prematurely!
As far as I know, Chinook got it fixed!

I had that chinook and because the top pin through the tendon acts as a pivot, it was liable to loosening the top tendon bolt. I reverted back to standard chinook tendon bases. I also have a NP mxt base and you can unplug and replug the rig while on the water.

Select to expand quote

Sailrepair said..
I had that chinook and because the top pin through the tendon acts as a pivot, it was liable to loosening the top tendon bolt. I reverted back to standard chinook tendon bases.

Thats good to know (or bad to know) I was thinking about getting one to make life easier.

A base typically has one or two nuts in the track, and the nuts have small points on each of the four corners that mechanically lock into the track, that keeps base from sliding but also makes it difficult to move on the water. Not sure you are going to find a base that is easy to move on the water, or even standing in the water, with the weight of the rig on the mast base.

Select to expand quote

berowne said..

PatK said..
Yes, the Chinook is great. But with big sails it can get to its limits

Pat
what do you mean?? does it get overloaded and buckle over?

The tendon is too flexible for a 10sqm sail. A friend told me his one looks like it will give up soon after one season.
Mine has no problem with max. 7sqm.

Depending on the size of sail. I think the 10m2 would be to big. The 2 bolt is hard to remove under tension. Phantom purchased a company in Germany that made an interesting 2 bolt mast base that the sail can be removed under tension. You would still have to unscrew the 2 bolts and make the fine adjustment. Placing the board on the side is eliminated. Here is an old video (German) of the product and link to Phantom.



www.phantom-windsurfing.com/mast-base

Select to expand quote

Sandman1221 said..
A base typically has one or two nuts in the track, and the nuts have small points on each of the four corners that mechanically lock into the track, that keeps base from sliding but also makes it difficult to move on the water. Not sure you are going to find a base that is easy to move on the water, or even standing in the water, with the weight of the rig on the mast base.

I think the idea is to take the rig off the base to move it, then attach it again with the board still flat on the water. So a mechanical UJ is required as you wont need to put the board on its side or battle with bending a UJ to get the pin back in the mast extension.

PhilUK got it.
Easy to bend the joint sitting on the board.
Easy to insert the base sitting on the board and bending the joint with free hand.
Impossible in breaking 4 foot surf, or 35 knot wind with 3 foot windwaves, but otherwise easy.
Assuming you can sit on your board and face downwind.

Yeah, but if you remove rig from a mechanical U-joint then you have a rig that is not attached to anything while you are unscrewing the base and repositioning it, that can get messy, rig could float away, or damage board. I have done that in chest deep water with a tendon joint, really a hassle, mechanical joint would help but above issues still apply.

Is it possible to place the bottom of the mast atop your board?
I know a wet rig is heavy, but even a weak person can lift the base off the water and onto the deck of the board.

I never thought of my mast base damaging the board. Which might be why I place it atop the board when I disconnect.
Most of my masts don't have water plugs, so the rig sinks immediately.

FWIW, I'm a compleat Noob at foiling and foiling setups, but @CoreAS was adamant that I should use a mechanical u-joint for ease (ie, actual feasibility) of dis/connecting the rig and the board in the water. (I was planning to use one of my regular old rubber hourglass bases.) Thank Goodness he told me that. (and also hooked me up with a mechanical u-joint and a pin extension!) In addition to dis/connecting the rig and the board in the water when starting and finishing a session, I've had 3 occasions now to have to adjust the mast base position while out on the water. In 2 of the cases, I was able to reposition the base with the rig still attached (just lean on the side of the board that the mast is flopped over on, to ease any pressure on the base and free up a little room to turn it, then turn the base plate, knock the base foward/backward as needed, and retighten), and in one case I disconnected the rig entirely, but just looped the uphaul around my arm so the rig didn't meander off. The mechanical u-joint and the pin base make all the difference in the world. (To the point that I've got longer-term plans of replacing all of my regular extensions and bases on my regular boards with pin bases and mechanical joints!)

Mechanical are the best for formula and feel. For foiling... until you crash and your nice board feels the impact.

Select to expand quote

LeeD said..
PhilUK got it.
Easy to bend the joint sitting on the board.
Easy to insert the base sitting on the board and bending the joint with free hand.
Impossible in breaking 4 foot surf, or 35 knot wind with 3 foot windwaves, but otherwise easy.
Assuming you can sit on your board and face downwind.

+1
That's how I do it.

Select to expand quote

ZeroVix said..
Mechanical are the best for formula and feel. For foiling... until you crash and your nice board feels the impact.

LoL, that may well be, but my many catapults thus far have all involved the nose of the board being underwater well before me or my mast come anywhere close to it. :-) My boom doesn't come anywhere near the nose (short little nose on the Wizard), and it even sits well clear of the tail, which makes maneuvering the rig in the water a whole lot easier than on my regular boards.

Not being argumentative, but just curious - would a rubber tendon-style base make any appreciable real-world difference in impact force/speed of the mast coming down on the nose of the board? Just thinking about the momentum of the rig (and often the added momentum of the person holding onto and/or hooked into the rig), vs the relative stiffness of the hourglass bases that I've historically used - I can't imagine that rubber bit at the fulcrum of all that swinging momentum making much of a real-world dampening effect on an impact between rig and board. (Just thinking the mechanics through in my head... Of course, the day I knock a hole in the nose, my mental mechanics might come back to haunt me...)

Mech is nice, but rubber u joints can easily be bent flat to deck for insertion. Then just unload and twist to align the buttons.

BTW, I think most of us are probably old enough to remember the old on-the-fly adjustable mast tracks - I know Mistral made them, and I seem to recall another board I used with one, but ICRC the manufacturer - maybe Tiga?

I wonder if some similar contraption might make a comeback for foiling one day? :-)

Those were OEM in production boards.
Several companies marketed aluminum add ons that fit mast bases

I no longer change my mast base position, but when I was playing around with adjusting it in 1-3 foot waves, I found it was very difficult to do in the water, and saw wind/waves wash mast off board, and then try to slap board rail into floating mast end. Now if you are doing it in flat water, it should be a lot easier.

Select to expand quote

jims said..

ZeroVix said..
Mechanical are the best for formula and feel. For foiling... until you crash and your nice board feels the impact.

LoL, that may well be, but my many catapults thus far have all involved the nose of the board being underwater well before me or my mast come anywhere close to it. :-) My boom doesn't come anywhere near the nose (short little nose on the Wizard), and it even sits well clear of the tail, which makes maneuvering the rig in the water a whole lot easier than on my regular boards.

Not being argumentative, but just curious - would a rubber tendon-style base make any appreciable real-world difference in impact force/speed of the mast coming down on the nose of the board? Just thinking about the momentum of the rig (and often the added momentum of the person holding onto and/or hooked into the rig), vs the relative stiffness of the hourglass bases that I've historically used - I can't imagine that rubber bit at the fulcrum of all that swinging momentum making much of a real-world dampening effect on an impact between rig and board. (Just thinking the mechanics through in my head... Of course, the day I knock a hole in the nose, my mental mechanics might come back to haunt me...)

Seems to me it's not about the impact on the nose but about the dampening of the pulling force between the rig and the mast rail.

These discussions quickly become polarized but there is no clear solution to be absolutely certain you will never damage the nose in a catapult : they all have their pro's and con's so pick your poison.

Select to expand quote

ZeroVix said..
Depending on the size of sail. I think the 10m2 would be to big. The 2 bolt is hard to remove under tension. Phantom purchased a company in Germany that made an interesting 2 bolt mast base that the sail can be removed under tension. You would still have to unscrew the 2 bolts and make the fine adjustment. Placing the board on the side is eliminated. Here is an old video (German) of the product and link to Phantom.

www.phantom-windsurfing.com/mast-base

Streamlined two bolt mast base is the same design.

Select to expand quote

seanhogan said..
this one should do the trick, I use the full mechanical

Probably not a good enough foiler to notice a 5mm change in mast position. Through trial and error eventually discovered my sweet spot for the foil wings used. Just returned to shore and moved the base a good 1-2cm. Using the two bolt base plate version. Bit pricey. But replacement tendons are inexpensive and easy to replace. Makes it easier to attach the sail when on land. Easier to remove the rig. Guessing less stress on the uni when lugging the kit down to and back out from the water. No tendon issues yet. But did have one almost major problem. One of the nuts came loose. Luckily the bolt stayed put. Emailed Chinook USA. They sent me a bag of nuts and bolts for both upper and lower sections. I now check the bolts on a regular basis.

Sail size if a limitation isn't. Largest sail used for foiling is a 5.5M. Not sure if a full tendon would make much of a difference in a real forceful crash considering the force required to bend a tendon 90 degrees is not that great.

Select to expand quote

Sandman1221 said..

ZeroVix said..
Depending on the size of sail. I think the 10m2 would be to big. The 2 bolt is hard to remove under tension. Phantom purchased a company in Germany that made an interesting 2 bolt mast base that the sail can be removed under tension. You would still have to unscrew the 2 bolts and make the fine adjustment. Placing the board on the side is eliminated. Here is an old video (German) of the product and link to Phantom.

www.phantom-windsurfing.com/mast-base

Streamlined two bolt mast base is the same design.

Yes, but it isn't the same U-pin that can be released under tension. Streamline base is a sliding plate and Phantom line is a Pin (??? name) which is easier to remove. It is also the lightest and lowest base and pricing is similar. I know if you just look at it, one would assume that it is just another 2 bolt like Chinook. But the U-Pin (not certain about terminology) has more slop and easier to remove in the water. I know that some (incl. Sailworks) still sells the Streamline brand, but I was informed that it is old stock and company is no longer manufacturing goods. Streamline is actually a very good and liked base (feel).

It could be fake news about the Streamline brand no longer manufacturing goods.

Hello. I use a cardan mechanical UJ, and it's the easiest to change mast base position in calm waters to avoid walking a long distance to shore, but in wavy conditions is not so easy but easier than with a regular UJ.

Anyway, if the wind goes up and down you could be changing mast base position all the time, so I took out the straps and now I move dynamically my feet to change my weight position and don't have to stop for making changes continously.

Regarding moving the mastbase on the water, just hold your sail up with 1 hand and unscrew / move / thighten the mastbase with the other. In the racing circuit we all do it like that even with 10m sails. The bigger the board the easier, I do it like this on boards 130L and up with my 95kgs. Just make sure you put the sail on its balance point so all the weight is on the mastfoot and not on your hand.

With the small foilboard (sinker) and 5m its very doable to put the board on the side to reattach the base so I generally just detach before moving the mastbase. A little to much acrobatics for me to keep the sail upright on a sinking board and move the mastfoot haha.

One bolt tendon base is not hard to bend to reconnect the mast. Check at 1:10. I can do that in over 25 knots and 2 feet of swell. More than that and I do it closer to shore in case something goes wrong. The first few times can be hard but with practice takes no time.

lovely idea on paper, but in the real world for the time it takes to stop and do a quick adjustment the standard one that will never move while sailing make more sense to me