Damn thats quick!

Board looks like 85 wide,www.fmxracing.com/hyperion-158/
Sail... maybe 5m? Point-7 F1sl.
Foil ? Not familiar with Black Bullet foil

Harness Line length... 1metre!

point-7.com/black-bullets-foils/?q=%2Fblack-bullets-foils%2F&v=7516fd43adaa

I believe F-4 makes their foils

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berowne said..
Damn thats quick!

Board looks like 85 wide,www.fmxracing.com/hyperion-158/
Sail... maybe 5m? Point-7 F1sl.
Foil ? Not familiar with Black Bullet foil

Harness Line length... 1metre!

looks to be a re-badge f4
Can't see any thing different in the spec other than the sticker

I just watched a video of the Defi and the winner of the second race Goya was on a 4.5m and a 350 wing.

These tiny foils in the right hands can match fins.

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Pcdefender said..
I just watched a video of the Defi and the winner of the second race Goya was on a 4.5m and a 350 wing.

These tiny foils in the right hands can match fins.

Yeah, what people forget is while a fin may have less drag than a foil, a finned board is constantly dragging the tail area across the water and impacts with chop however minor suck up even more energy.

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Sandman1221 said..

Pcdefender said..
I just watched a video of the Defi and the winner of the second race Goya was on a 4.5m and a 350 wing.

These tiny foils in the right hands can match fins.

Yeah, what people forget is while a fin may have less drag than a foil, a finned board is constantly dragging the tail area across the water and impacts with chop however minor suck up even more energy.

It is not that people forget, it is that foils are still slower. Look for example at these year's 500 meters Prince of Speed results.


Apparently very tough conditions not too conductive of braking any record. In the same location the nautical mile record still holds at 43.6 knots for a windsurf, and 33.4 knots for a windfoil. Foils did not even brake in the top ten.

Similar gaps for women. Top windfoil 500 at 29.6, by Albeau, vs an almost record of nautical mile at 37 plus for the fin.

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duzzi said..

Sandman1221 said..

Pcdefender said..
I just watched a video of the Defi and the winner of the second race Goya was on a 4.5m and a 350 wing.

These tiny foils in the right hands can match fins.

Yeah, what people forget is while a fin may have less drag than a foil, a finned board is constantly dragging the tail area across the water and impacts with chop however minor suck up even more energy.

It is not that people forget, it is that foils are still slower. Look for example at these year's 500 meters Prince of Speed results.


Apparently very tough conditions not too conductive of braking any record. In the same location the nautical mile record still holds at 43.6 knots for a windsurf, and 33.4 knots for a windfoil. Foils did not even brake in the top ten.

Similar gaps for women. Top windfoil 500 at 29.6, by Albeau, vs an almost record of nautical mile at 37 plus for the fin.

That locale proves Sandman's point. The fastest fin times are all slap right against the beach where the water is dead flat. In the high wind events in deeper water, like Le Defi, the difference is much less or sometimes advantage foil ie NG winning in 30-35 kt. winds.

Also, in the image you posted, the 500m differences in speed are much less approx 42 vs 37 which I assume are in similar conditions. 5 kts is certainly a difference but 37 isn't exactly tortoise-like. Most of us haven't done that on a finned board.

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duzzi said..

Sandman1221 said..

Pcdefender said..
I just watched a video of the Defi and the winner of the second race Goya was on a 4.5m and a 350 wing.

These tiny foils in the right hands can match fins.

Yeah, what people forget is while a fin may have less drag than a foil, a finned board is constantly dragging the tail area across the water and impacts with chop however minor suck up even more energy.

It is not that people forget, it is that foils are still slower. Look for example at these year's 500 meters Prince of Speed results.


Apparently very tough conditions not too conductive of braking any record. In the same location the nautical mile record still holds at 43.6 knots for a windsurf, and 33.4 knots for a windfoil. Foils did not even brake in the top ten.

Similar gaps for women. Top windfoil 500 at 29.6, by Albeau, vs an almost record of nautical mile at 37 plus for the fin.

Did NG even show up to that event?

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duzzi said..

Sandman1221 said..

Pcdefender said..
I just watched a video of the Defi and the winner of the second race Goya was on a 4.5m and a 350 wing.

These tiny foils in the right hands can match fins.

Yeah, what people forget is while a fin may have less drag than a foil, a finned board is constantly dragging the tail area across the water and impacts with chop however minor suck up even more energy.

It is not that people forget, it is that foils are still slower. Look for example at these year's 500 meters Prince of Speed results.


Apparently very tough conditions not too conductive of braking any record. In the same location the nautical mile record still holds at 43.6 knots for a windsurf, and 33.4 knots for a windfoil. Foils did not even brake in the top ten.

Similar gaps for women. Top windfoil 500 at 29.6, by Albeau, vs an almost record of nautical mile at 37 plus for the fin.

Have the fins sail at the same distance from the beach as the foils, and you'll get speeds that are within a couple of knots of each other. That's not conjecture - that's what happened at the Defi wind, at roughly the same spot.

How many windsurfers get to sail at a spot like that outside of Europe? How many would go out in 30+ knot conditions in offshore wind, where the chances that you loose your gear to the wind if you crash are quite high? How many windfoilers have reached the same level of skill and confidence as windsurfers who have competed for a decade or more?

For anyone wondering about how close to the beach they really sail, and what the perils are:

Fins and foils further off the beach at the Prince of Speed. It's a bumpy ride for the fins.

www.facebook.com/princeofthespeed/videos/5292148947520471

Blanca Alabau setting the women's record for 500 m 29.81 kts. Flying!

www.facebook.com/princeofthespeed/videos/788516695755319

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Paducah said..

duzzi said..

Sandman1221 said..

Pcdefender said..
I just watched a video of the Defi and the winner of the second race Goya was on a 4.5m and a 350 wing.

These tiny foils in the right hands can match fins.

Yeah, what people forget is while a fin may have less drag than a foil, a finned board is constantly dragging the tail area across the water and impacts with chop however minor suck up even more energy.

It is not that people forget, it is that foils are still slower. Look for example at these year's 500 meters Prince of Speed results.


Apparently very tough conditions not too conductive of braking any record. In the same location the nautical mile record still holds at 43.6 knots for a windsurf, and 33.4 knots for a windfoil. Foils did not even brake in the top ten.

Similar gaps for women. Top windfoil 500 at 29.6, by Albeau, vs an almost record of nautical mile at 37 plus for the fin.

That locale proves Sandman's point. The fastest fin times are all slap right against the beach where the water is dead flat. In the high wind events in deeper water, like Le Defi, the difference is much less or sometimes advantage foil ie NG winning in 30-35 kt. winds.

Also, in the image you posted, the 500m differences in speed are much less approx 42 vs 37 which I assume are in similar conditions. 5 kts is certainly a difference but 37 isn't exactly tortoise-like. Most of us haven't done that on a finned board.

Nah ... the foils sail just a few meters outward, and aren't they supposed to erase chop? The current gaps in that venue are 6 knots over 500 meters, 10 knots over the nautical mile. And the top female on fin is faster than the top man windfoiler! World speed record 500 meters for fin is still more than 16 knots faster.

And 5-6 knots might seems little on paper, but it is pretty much how fast a good male runner can go (around 10-14 kmh). Think about that: side by side the foil would be still and you on the fin would be passing by a a very good trot!

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duzzi said..
Nah ... the foils sail just a few meters outward, and aren't they supposed to erase chop? The current gaps in that venue are 6 knots over 500 meters, 10 knots over the nautical mile. And the top female on fin is faster than the top man windfoiler! World speed record 500 meters for fin is still more than 16 knots faster.

And 5-6 knots might seems little on paper, but it is pretty much how fast a good male runner can go (around 10-14 kmh). Think about that: side by side the foil would be still and you on the fin would be passing by a a very good trot!

This year the spread was 5 kts. And if a few meters didn't matter, then every fin guy wouldn't be hugging the beach. Watch the runs where they go past the little stick in the sand. That tells how important flat water is.

In the Blanca video at 0:07 and you'll see a fin sailor go by in the foreground. The foils are more than a "few" meters away.

And the bigger takeaway: 95% of us here really don't care whether the spread is 5 kts or 6 or even 10. We're going plenty fast and doing things that can't be done on a fin. And, this is coming from a guy who spent my summer vacation in a spot where most days I was sailing 4 something sails on 78 and 85 l tri fin boards.

In sizable chop the max speeds for fin and foil are very similar. But the skill required on either fin or foil to send it at over 30kts in 0.5m chop is significant and beyond the majority of recreational sailors. I can do it on a fin if the chop is lined up in nice straight lines at about 120 degrees to the wind. I wouldn't even contemplate it on a foil.

You know what i find impressive about how fast windfoils have started going? Its not that they are getting speeds similar to fins now. It's that there are actually people out there "crazy" enough to try.


Sending it off breeze at 35 + knots with only your weight and the rigs weight to counter balance the ever changing lift from the foil which gets more erratic and starts making quicker movements looks down right terrifying. Other foiling craft have controls in place to limit the lift the foil can produce. Kites can leave the board if things go wrong. Wind foilers are tied to the foil and board and have far more potential for things to end catastrophically if it all goes pear shaped.

whilst i still admire sailors that can push a fin that fast in chop, theres much less fear factor to leaning back and pushing harder than there is to pushing a foil that fast, chop or no chop.

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Subsonic said..
You know what i find impressive about how fast windfoils have started going? Its not that they are getting speeds similar to fins now. It's that there are actually people out there "crazy" enough to try.


Sending it off breeze at 35 + knots with only your weight and the rigs weight to counter balance the ever changing lift from the foil which gets more erratic and starts making quicker movements looks down right terrifying. Other foiling craft have controls in place to limit the lift the foil can produce. Kites can leave the board if things go wrong. Wind foilers are tied to the foil and board and have far more potential for things to end catastrophically if it all goes pear shaped.

whilst i still admire sailors that can push a fin that fast in chop, theres much less fear factor to leaning back and pushing harder than there is to pushing a foil that fast, chop or no chop.

^^^100%

40 knots on fin is not difficult in flat water - with a weed fin you mostly slide over stuff in the water.
With a foil the same weed, plastic bag, fish etc. is going to send you over the front. Scary gamble at 30 knots ++

I wonder what the exact reasons coming off a foil around a metre above the water are?

Going 40 knots on a fin in glassy water is actually not that difficult.

I remember 10 years ago or so getting a perfect run behind the fast ferry just past the mouth of the river in 25 knots plus wind.

The water was perfectly glass off its wake and i got a 300 to 400 run nearly catching the ferry.

Someone behind me said i was doing 40 knots. Previous highest gps run was 31.7 knots.

Felt like one of the easiest safest speed runs ive had.

Doing 30 knots in big chop off the wind is a pipe dream for most.

Slowboat is one of the few who risks life and limb going off the wind in big chop.

You don't even have to hit anything to crash on a foil
sometimes just getting a little high is enough. Most crashes at 30 are fine. Unless you stay hooked in.