I try and do the right thing and support my local surfshop and my local shaper. However, I have given up. Here's why (and I am not going to out anyone cos its probably the same everywhere else)

Example 1
Was looking for a Ripcurl E Bomb pro size 10 kids. Contacted local surfshop...they say.."you're lucky we have a big sale on...normally $560? or so...today only $369"....I check online at Ripcurl...standard price (not on sale) is $329 ....do they think we are idiots...ended up buying the equivalent in Quiksilver brand from SDS online at 50% off...$155 including shipping (normally $330).

Example 2
Support local shaper...paid $750 for a new custom board for my 7 YO who is 29 KG...had it 6 weeks...she snapped it...fair enough these things happen...took it back in to see if it could be fixed...no...but we feel sorry for you..we can give your daughter a new board for $100 off..i.e still $650....ended up buying exact same dimensions online from ECS for $360...even delivered to Sydney next day...now I know its not hand shaped but most boards these days are done via CAD type designs...Had the shaper even come out to talk to me and offered me a half price board I would have taken it and he would have got repeat business.

I used to feel sorry for the local shops but the reality is someone is making too big a margin....perhaps it is the rent and staff etc but I know what I want/need and find it easier to do it online with free shipping..to go to my local shop I have to drive and run the risk of some bimbo not knowing what I am on about or them not having it in stock..and then if they do paying up to 50% markup from the onlines (and this is not o/s so GST etc is charged)....Sorry...its online for me from now on.

I understand eg 1.

But number 2, boards snap and it isn't the shapers fault/responsibility (maybe if they do a shotty job, I don't know). It is out of their control.
I don't see why they should have to put their time and sell their product for half price when it wasn't their fault.
Or if I buy a board from a bloke, then I like it so I go back a week later and expect another one for half price.
(And I'm not saying I woulnd't get a cheaper one online and I'm all for saving my coin, I just wouldn't expect a cheap deal for the reason above)

I realise boards snap...but the 7YO is only 29 kg...she doesnt surf in waves bigger than 2-3'...if a board cant handle that in 6 weeks of surfing (perhaps 20 or so surfs) then its a shame ...btw..I know I am lucky cos in over 30 boards in over 40 years never snapped one...so perhaps its just the time....but where I am getting at...if I ran a business...I would make a decent offer to keep the repeat business up...and only cos the board was so new...If I went back there just to upgrade I wouldnt expect a huge discount but I would offer to cut by 10% for repeat business

...IF I can buy one online at less than half price then they can break even (for this one time) to keep the business....ultimately its my hard earned coin that needs to be put to the best value particularly when its not just me I am buying them for. I know after speaking to the ECS guy they can produce similar boards to the Firewires/Haydens etc and sell them for half the price...the factories these days you just rent them for a month or so and produce what you want and they are virtually identical to the ones selling at twice the price...the epoxy ones are a lot stronger too.

As I said I am not out to name and shame...its just my opinion and it only matters to me...but its why I am justifying not using local business any more. They dont really want your business..they are just after a quick buck. I would be using direct marketing to all my customers and offer them discounts for repeat sales and inform them when the sales are on but its all too hard for them. This is why they wont last.

BTW...I am not into haggling...if a shop wants to give me a good price then thats great...if I get great service and the product is a good product I will pay full price...in this instance I just went in and the shop assistant said sorry...cant fix it...If it was my business and I was the shaper I would come out and have a quick chat and offer a little more than approx 15% off the price of a new one as a one off due to it being so new....its different if the board was 10 months old and the rider was say 60+ kg riding waves over 4'. (to be honest I expected nothing less or more than what I got).

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beatlloydy said...
I realise boards snap...but the 7YO is only 29 kg...she doesnt surf in waves bigger than 2-3'...if a board cant handle that in 6 weeks of surfing (perhaps 20 or so surfs) then its a shame ...

You said the board took a direct hit from a lip while duckdiving in another thread. I'd call that operator error.

I also buy stuff online, but I picked up a newish wettie from a local boardshop earlier this year. Hopefully he made some $ from it.

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Legion said...

beatlloydy said...
I realise boards snap...but the 7YO is only 29 kg...she doesnt surf in waves bigger than 2-3'...if a board cant handle that in 6 weeks of surfing (perhaps 20 or so surfs) then its a shame ...

You said the board took a direct hit from a lip while duckdiving in another thread. I'd call that operator error.

I also buy stuff online, but I picked up a newish wettie from a local boardshop earlier this year. Hopefully he made some $ from it.

I assume that's what happened as I wasnt actually there..she was in a class and it was the first wave paddling out from what I am led to believe...I was surfing further up the beach where the waves were bigger...but I have had times where 6-8' waves have hit me as I was trying to duck dive and nothing....in this instance the waves in shore were not more than 2' or so. Operator error or not they should withstand small waves like that. I'm not going to keep raving on about it...as I said Sh%t happens but after sales service in many retail shops is very poor (not just surf shops) so its no wonder we tend to do more online shopping.

I dont think I will buy another board off the rack, I love my new quad shaped by a local shaper

I trust my local and am planning my summer board as of this moment and when I have enough moneys, will be down for my next stick. Surf stores I understand but there are still some genuine ones around (unfortunately the majority are as they are, a business making ends meet). I don't understand why the shaper wasn't able to repair your little ones board because it was a clean snap and something even you could try. Again boards are boards and made to the dimensions of the surfer. Hence anyone can snap anything. I have had 2 boards where I've duck dived knee high waves on a shallow bank and still managed to bust off fin plugs. The nose of another board is just about to fall off.

Sometimes it's just luck. There have been days in gusty onshore head high conditions where I have simply paddled out in seconds and days like that where I have been pummeled, thrown around and boards dinged and didn't even make it out. I say make the most of this situation and how about you and your daughter make this your pet project in fixing the board up. Both of you guys will learn alot and it will make for good bonding session too.

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beatlloydy said...
...in this instance I just went in and the shop assistant said sorry...cant fix it...

I'd be wanting to hear it from the shaper directly, along with the explanation of why they can't, before completely writing the board (and the shop) off. Every chance the shop assistant was just talking out of their ass.

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doggie said...
I dont think I will buy another board off the rack, I love my new quad shaped by a local shaper

+1

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beatlloydy said...
I realise boards snap...but the 7YO is only 29 kg...she doesnt surf in waves bigger than 2-3'...if a board cant handle that in 6 weeks of surfing (perhaps 20 or so surfs) then its a shame ...btw..I know I am lucky cos in over 30 boards in over 40 years never snapped one...so perhaps its just the time....but where I am getting at...if I ran a business...I would make a decent offer to keep the repeat business up...and only cos the board was so new...If I went back there just to upgrade I wouldnt expect a huge discount but I would offer to cut by 10% for repeat business

...IF I can buy one online at less than half price then they can break even (for this one time) to keep the business....ultimately its my hard earned coin that needs to be put to the best value particularly when its not just me I am buying them for. I know after speaking to the ECS guy they can produce similar boards to the Firewires/Haydens etc and sell them for half the price...the factories these days you just rent them for a month or so and produce what you want and they are virtually identical to the ones selling at twice the price...the epoxy ones are a lot stronger too.

As I said I am not out to name and shame...its just my opinion and it only matters to me...but its why I am justifying not using local business any more. They dont really want your business..they are just after a quick buck. I would be using direct marketing to all my customers and offer them discounts for repeat sales and inform them when the sales are on but its all too hard for them. This is why they wont last.

I got that exact same sales pitch when we bought a 6'4 ECS for my son 14 year old son a few months ago. It had been surfed once by the bloke who owned the shop and was worth a punt at $450. Its been a good board but it has gone very soft on the deck near the rails where he pushes it down to duck dive and the laminations have cracked. Genuine Hayden boards don't do this.

I reckon they are cheaper because the materials are not as good in quality.

Its getting to be a freakin minefield getting a new board these days.

Years ago when I got my first board you went to the local shaper because it was the only way. Anything on a rack was from said shapers.

The market getting flooded with mass produced Asian popouts was inevitable in this day and age. I've owned probably half a dozen customs and as many Asian boards and the Asian boards have been cr@p. Except 1. An epoxy popout I got in 2003 that seems indestructible. I think they are a bit of a lucky dip. Might be OK. Probably not.

Having said that none of the customs have been perfect either. Custom epoxy that was pricy got heel dints and lost its shape, A PU mal was a bit asymetric and another PU had a big black hair glassed in. No big deal but when a mate spotted it the board got the nickname "moot" for the rest of its life.

My latest board is a MR shaped in Newcastle and glassed in Byron. I love it. Taken a beating for the last 5 months and bearly a mark on it. Its plain white so you can see through it and know what your getting. Trouble with epoxy boards I found is the seller can say its got carbon and kevlar and all this lovely sh!t but you just don't know for sure because its painted. When the epoxy board mentioned above sh!t itself I cut it open and it just did not have the construction materials I paid for.

Maybe the markets going full circle. The local shapers here in Newy are matching the price of the imported stuff and making a damn fine stick.

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You said the board took a direct hit from a lip while duckdiving in another thread. I'd call that operator error.

I also buy stuff online, but I picked up a newish wettie from a local boardshop earlier this year. Hopefully he made some $ from it.

even though your daughter is only 30kg the wave that hit it was most likely 1000+kg
as a shop owner/shaper i beleive they should and could have done more,i see it far to often shops selling expensive boards with absolutley no after sales backup
sorry legion i didnt make $1 on that wettie but hope you like it

Yeah I would be a little p$$$$d too but honestly who would by a 7 year old a $750 custom board Surely you can find a decent 2nd hand board for alot cheaper. I'm a firm believer in supporting local shapers so we don't have to ride crap imports.

At the end of the day it's in surfers best interest to support local shapers like katana, Colin Earl, Dave Lewis, Wilkes etc as if we don't we will all only have one option; slx from GSI! And only at preset sizes

^^^^^^^I'd paddle out on an ironing board before I bought another GSI

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dreads said...
Yeah I would be a little p$$$$d too but honestly who would by a 7 year old a $750 custom board Surely you can find a decent 2nd hand board for alot cheaper. I'm a firm believer in supporting local shapers so we don't have to ride crap imports.

I grew up dirt poor...my parents did not believe in spending money on anything much....ie a wetsuit for christmas was a no name brand that I was laughed at by others...a sleeping bag was a thin piece of foam covered material and I froze even in spring when camping...not holding it against them but they didnt really understand sports goods and the adage "you pay for what you get"

So...In saying that I believe that you get your children the best you can afford if they show an interest...she has been surfing for 3 years and has a comp on in 2 weeks...I bought her the board with my tax refund..I could have spent it on myself but she is very keen....she hasnt missed a surf all through winter...I derive jsut as much pleasure watching her surf as she does surfing..she has been through the coolites etc and even had a 2nd hand fibreglass board (again I wasnt allowed a fibreglass board until 15 and had to pay for it myself)...once again a 2' wave does not have a 1000+ kg force...its a rediculous point to make. I wouldnt be complaining if the waves were 4-6' but they were only 2'.

There are crap imports and there are good imports...Firewires/Haydens are all made overseas now...it is the future...many local shapers wont be around much longer (good or bad)...its the sign of mass production. If I was a local shaper/shopholder I would be trying my best to hold onto customers..even if it meant not making profit on a remake to get further business down the track...as I indicated before they are not even interested in email direct marketting which is something the online guys have down pat.

I fully support firewires ...I had a 7' reef wave (which equates in force/power to around a 9-10' wave in Sydney beaches) break directly on me in Java...it stretched my top of the line legrope out another 3' and the legrope sort of recovered but never the same again...however, the board suffered zero damage.

I believe that glassers are taking a leaf from pro surfers and glassing light as per the trend..cos the pros can afford to chuck their boards after a few months.

What I choose to spend my money on is my choice...It was merely a whinge and I didnt want to out the shaper or press further for any form of compensation..I just dont support manufacturers who dont offer to stand by their products and stand by that decision..as I stand by others decisions to support their local shaper..just indicating why I wont be.

Mate **** happens,if you drive a new car out of the lot and hit a pole do you return to the yard and ask for a refund,NO.
This country is ****ed, manufacturing screwed because there's cheaper options on line,not better just cheaper.Spend your money in your local area no matter what your purchasing,what goes around comes around the money stays local.

Buy local support YOUR local businesses.

RANT OVER.

I've got a locally shaped custom made 15+ years ago, in pretty good condition.Having said that, it hasn't been surfed except once, in years. Get up 'em, beat.
Pop outs for me, I'm afraid, at the mo'.

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62mac said...
Mate **** happens,if you drive a new car out of the lot and hit a pole do you return to the yard and ask for a refund,NO.
This country is ****ed, manufacturing screwed because there's cheaper options on line,not better just cheaper.Spend your money in your local area no matter what your purchasing,what goes around comes around the money stays local.If everyone had your attitude YOUR form on work would be screwed if its not already.

Buy local support YOUR local businesses.

RANT OVER.

Mate..she didnt hit a pole...it was a piss weak wave...as I said I have never broken a board and could understand if it was me on 4' plus waves and my 90kg frame...but force of a 2' wave is minimal as is the force of a 29kg kid pushing down on a board to duckdive...you guys dont seem to understand it was piss poor surf.

Nah...I will support them when they support me...I never asked for a refund..I never even asked for a discount..I only asked could it be fixed and they said no cos the glassing on the top tore and didnt snap but everything else did..I merely explained the issue. Its my hard earned $$ so I will spend it wherever I feel like...its not like they wanted to look after me.

And as for the (different) surfshop and the wettie...I'm not going to support a shop that tries to pull the wool over my eyes by charging me more for a "sale" item at 30% off than the manufacturer sells them retail for (not discounted) online.... I got as good a wetsuit at 40% of the price they wanted to charge.

I'm no fly by night after the cheapest bargain... surfer...I reckon in my life I probably have spent over $20k on surfing products...just now realising like pushbikes/guitars and now surfgear we are being ripped off by the shops....no 2 ways about it..if they just were happy to make their 30% instead of 100%+ markups in many cases then we would support them...that is why people are going online..service is better, price is better, delivery charges are better etc. End of rant from me.
EDIT: there may be some good shops out there...However, I have yet to find one lately...had great experiences in the 80's/90's but then that was all there was and loyalty went both ways..doesnt seem to these days

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beatlloydy said...

62mac said...
Mate **** happens,if you drive a new car out of the lot and hit a pole do you return to the yard and ask for a refund,NO.
This country is ****ed, manufacturing screwed because there's cheaper options on line,not better just cheaper.Spend your money in your local area no matter what your purchasing,what goes around comes around the money stays local.If everyone had your attitude YOUR form on work would be screwed if its not already.

Buy local support YOUR local businesses.

RANT OVER.

Mate..she didnt hit a pole...it was a piss weak wave...as I said I have never broken a board and could understand if it was me on 4' plus waves and my 90kg frame...but force of a 2' wave is minimal as is the force of a 29kg kid pushing down on a board to duckdive...you guys dont seem to understand it was piss poor surf.

Nah...I will support them when they support me...I never asked for a refund..I never even asked for a discount..I only asked could it be fixed and they said no cos the glassing on the top tore and didnt snap but everything else did..I merely explained the issue. Its my hard earned $$ so I will spend it wherever I feel like...its not like they wanted to look after me.

And as for the (different) surfshop and the wettie...I'm not going to support a shop that tries to pull the wool over my eyes by charging me more for a "sale" item at 30% off than the manufacturer sells them retail for (not discounted) online.... I got as good a wetsuit at 40% of the price they wanted to charge.

I'm no fly by night after the cheapest bargain... surfer...I reckon in my life I probably have spent over $20k on surfing products...just now realising like pushbikes/guitars and now surfgear we are being ripped off by the shops....no 2 ways about it..if they just were happy to make their 30% instead of 100%+ markups in many cases then we would support them...that is why people are going online..service is better, price is better, delivery charges are better etc. End of rant from me.
EDIT: there may be some good shops out there...However, I have yet to find one lately...had great experiences in the 80's/90's but then that was all there was and loyalty went both ways..doesnt seem to these days

Buddy I agree with you, I am kind of struggling to see how a little girl could snap a board in 2-3 ft surf?
Either it was finished badly, like the resin hadn't penetrated the cloth properly, or perhaps you didn't let it cure enough?

But it seems that everything in Australia is going this way, every time I return to Oz I am blown away by how expensive it has become, especially the surf industry.
Why do Australian brands cost more to buy in Australia?

The Aussie dollar is at record highs, yet prices haven't come down,in fact they seem to be increasing. It goes all the way back to the start, the rent is higher, the bills are higher, therefore the margin has to go up.
But its wrong and counter productive, as someone like yourself now shops online, and everyone loses.

I think you guys should come to Katana Walk through our front door and meet the shaper unless he is off surfing! As far as mark ups go I wish we had stuff in here we were make 100% mark up on!!!! This is not the case and never has been We are a surf shop not a surf boutique We only sell boards and accerssories We offer all our customers the best deal we can and we follow it up with the best customer service around that is priceless At the end of the day boards are foam and fibreglass they break but in the 20 years I have been working here I have NEVER seen a board that can not be repaired including one that had been taken to with an axe by an unimpressed girlfiriend!!!! If you want a board with soul support your local shaper otherwise mass produced boards maybe what you are looking for

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Gwendy said...
^^^^^^^I'd paddle out on an ironing board before I bought another GSI

A few years back I bought a GSI board and after about three weeks I got barrelled and managed to put my knee through the deck (totally my bad), but I was a little pissed as the board construction felt a little weak to me (finger and hand compressions where I was holding the board when duck diving).

I made a comment about the construction on the GSI website under the review section. Less than a day later, I had a phone call from the MD, who asked if he could come by and look at the board as he was in the area. He did and he said the glassing was bad. A couple of days later he came back with a new board.

You can say whatever you like about their boards, but their customer service was amazing and I'll never forget it (I've bought a couple of GSI boards since then).

Maybe, GSI can run some workshops for local shapers on customer service and growing your business through satisfied customers ; )

more plugz for dave at Katana
I managed to fold the nose up on one of his earlier epoxy boards... Super shallow summer **** surf nose dive on a close-out, farkn unusual for perth eh
Board popped back into shape but needed surgery, I was happy to pay for the fix, my fault BUT Dave made me a brand spankin new one...he reckoned his boards shouldnt do that and was prepared to back it up.

CUSTOMER service- result about 4 more newies since and plenty of referrals

It aint rocket surgery(Jackovic) or a loaf of bread 15min early (Lisa mayor lady) its customer service

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mbuzz said...

Gwendy said...
^^^^^^^I'd paddle out on an ironing board before I bought another GSI

A few years back I bought a GSI board and after about three weeks I got barrelled and managed to put my knee through the deck (totally my bad), but I was a little pissed as the board construction felt a little weak to me (finger and hand compressions where I was holding the board when duck diving).

I made a comment about the construction on the GSI website under the review section. Less than a day later, I had a phone call from the MD, who asked if he could come by and look at the board as he was in the area. He did and he said the glassing was bad. A couple of days later he came back with a new board.

You can say whatever you like about their boards, but their customer service was amazing and I'll never forget it (I've bought a couple of GSI boards since then).

Maybe, GSI can run some workshops for local shapers on customer service and growing your business through satisfied customers ; )

True that, they are happy to offer a replacement when your new board collapses and you have a moan about it.

They are pumping mass produced boards out of Asian factories using the bare minimum of inferior quality materials then flogging them off at top dollar.

Replacement of a curtain amount of these boards is built into their margin. What a margin that must be.

Australian manufacturers can not afford this luxury when they are making a far superior product up front.

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Wavewidow said...
I think you guys should come to Katana Walk through our front door and meet the shaper unless he is off surfing! As far as mark ups go I wish we had stuff in here we were make 100% mark up on!!!! This is not the case and never has been We are a surf shop not a surf boutique We only sell boards and accerssories We offer all our customers the best deal we can and we follow it up with the best customer service around that is priceless At the end of the day boards are foam and fibreglass they break but in the 20 years I have been working here I have NEVER seen a board that can not be repaired including one that had been taken to with an axe by an unimpressed girlfiriend!!!! If you want a board with soul support your local shaper otherwise mass produced boards maybe what you are looking for

I am not having a go at local shapers or surfshops, I always brought my boards of the local guys when growing up in WA.
But in general I do find things in Australia extremely overpriced, especially when the Aussie dollar buys so much more these days.
That is not the fault of the final retailer or manufacturer, such as yourself, but goes back further to buying the raw materials, paying the rent etc etc.

A similar thing happened in Switzerland recently (Where my kids live). The Swiss franc became much much stronger, but the local shops, supermarkets etc didn't change their prices, so the locals drove over the border to France and Germany and did their shopping in euros, where they purchased the identical product for 30% cheaper. Eventually the shops had to adjust the prices in line with what the currency was trading at to keep the buisness.

We live in a connected world these days, and some people are doing it hard.
If a similar or in many cases identical product is available for half price somewhere else, then the average joe will buy it. As I wrote before, everyone loses.

I recently posted photos of my new boards, which I brought while in Spain, from a pretty well known Spanish shaper, they cost me 350 euro each (approx 450 Aus).
I don't know how locals shapers could ever compete with this, but whether they realise it or not, in the internet age, they already are .

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Gwendy said...

Australian manufacturers can not afford this luxury when they are making a far superior product up front.

If by far superior product, you mean a board that can't hold up to the rigours of a 7 year old girl riding 2ft surf, then perhaps your right, we should all by local then.

I see plenty of broken boards on 2' days. Mostly from people with little experience who put themselves right under a breaking lip and bail so the board takes the full force. Not the board's fault, pop-out or local.

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Legion said...
I see plenty of broken boards on 2' days. Mostly from people with little experience who put themselves right under a breaking lip and bail so the board takes the full force. Not the board's fault, pop-out or local.

+1 Ive seen boards creased in 1-2ft with no weight on the board at all.

In saying that my new board fell off a 5ft bench the other day and I was thinking that I was in for some major repair work but no! Only a small crack on the rail and not even worth fixing atm.

Its the luck of the draw sometimes.

All true and I know some great local shapers that produce great boards.

One thing's for sure, beatlloydy won't be buying a board from that shaper in the future and you can bet that if anyone asks him, he's going to tell his story and complain about them. So whether it's the shapers fault or not, there's now one angry customer out there bagging his business.

It's a tough market to be in and I'm not sure you'll survive long if you get a rep for making s#$t boards (whether that is the case or not).

On the other hand, if you put yourself out there and take a hit for the rep of your business, then people like beatlloydy will come back time and time again and recommend you to anyone who will listen and before long, that hit has turned into a big win.

The same is true of any business, just think about the last time you felt screwed over by a business vs the last time someone went out of their way to sort out a problem for you.

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Legion said...
I see plenty of broken boards on 2' days. Mostly from people with little experience who put themselves right under a breaking lip and bail so the board takes the full force. Not the board's fault, pop-out or local.

man,....your boards must be piss weak if they snap on a 2 foot day. I've had some of my PU delta designs boards take full lip impact on a double overhead pit and survive pretty well. My firewire not so fortunate

Not mine, other peoples'. E.g. within the last two weeks I saw a guy with two half longboards on a 2' day walking up the beach. I've seen people ditch boards under lips before and come up with two halves. Every time the first straight swell in a while comes you're guaranteed to see a snapped board or two. Lotsa kooks around here.