I did not want to call them artifical reefs but I think that with the sand filled bag system a number of just off shore waves could be created in metro Perth.

They could start north of Swanbourne and go all the way to trigg every few hundred metres.

Not a groyne as it messes with the inshore lateral flow but something that just grags and holds some sand to get a bank.

Between surfers, kiters and windsurfers we would be a large voting block.

If you did the same study that Gold Coast has done on value of surfing industry we would show a positive financial benefit for the economy.

Would take a while to do studies but bag system is an easy reverse so maybe a few to start stdy on .

Petition anyone ?

+1 and keep on going past trigg

I'm definitely all for it. Would be nice to have an artificial reef that actually works. We get more waves, fish get more habitat. Then once the reef is built, make it a strict no-fishing zone (including recreational fishing). Then us surfers don't have to worry about dickheads coming out in tinnies while we're paddling and the fish get another little safe haven.

Win win.




It'll never happen.

Suba

You say it will never happen

But how many people in WA surf, windsurf kite surf

Now add to that parents, partners who I am sure will support and I think you would a quite a big voting block.

Everyone south and north of perth would also vote for the party who puts it on their platform as it would reduce the number of travelling surfers.

It will only never happen if everyone has the same old same old cant be arsed attitude.

Love it..Someone write it up and we should all get signing

Suba are you giving any thought to completing a PhD?

If ever there was a topic worthy of a thesis than this is it...

All these new land developers should look at doing something like this. Don't need to travell for a surf if there's a break right outside your new house

This would be a state government issue. If you look at the electorates spanning the coast of Cottesloe, Churchlands, Scarborough, Carine, Hillarys and Ocean Reef they are all Liberal, ranging from a solid majority to will-never-be-anything-but-Liberal-no-matter-what (i.e. Colin's seat). They don't have to have any policies at all. Votes are cast based on what your grandfather's grandfather voted.

I agree it's a great idea, but no-one's going to throw millions of dollars away for no reason. A better idea would be to gain state government approval and crowd-fund it yourself than to try to convince the government to pay for it.

thinking about doing this down our way, what do you guys think would be the main obstacle? I'm thinking funds, however, the environmental side is one that worries me the most in terms of obstructing the process. I assume that to do this a series of studies would need to be conducted to assess the environmental impact of man made structures on the environment, this would be costly and perhaps it would be those proposing the idea that would bear the cost of these studies.

This one in India seems to be the best they have done after what other people are calling failures in UK and NZ.



I still think becuase of Perths lateral sand drft it must be possible to capture and hold sand in a decent bank and then once trap has filled the sand rolls over the top and keeps moving north or south depending on time of year.

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bakesy said...
what do you guys think would be the main obstacle?

Everything. You're talking about using public funds to fund a play sport. It's low priority compared to infrastructure (hospitals, rail, roads, schools, housing, public service). It has unknown environmental impact. It might not work, or be done badly (Cables). In general, there's no good reason for it, except a handful of bum surfers want it.

If you could justify it as a preventative measure to save something, then you'd get traction. E.g. prevent the weed buildup that upsets wealthy homeowners (and friends of Liberal candidates), prevent houses of wealthy homeowners (and friends of Liberal candidates) being washed away in storms, keep sand buildup from blocking marinas where wealthy boatowners (and friends of Liberal candidates) keep their boats.

That's what we need - elephants, and lots of them. And bribeable officials.

Bakesy

I have exchanged emails with another forum member who works in the department of transport and is involved in the sand bypassing at both mandurah entrances.

The best chance of improving waves around Mandurah is to see the inshore lateral sand movements return to pre Dawesville channel days.

Talk to some long term surfers about what Stuart Street, Doddies Beach and the bar at the mandurah entrance used to be like.

Between the two entrances a numkber of waves have disappeared as there is far less sand,

Re-configure the sand trap at Pyramids and you could have an epic right hander

I think even how they went about taking the sand out at Pyramids could improve the waves.


For Mandurah the issue I think is not about trying to make a wave but getting the sand back to the beaches

The Fremantle Island develpment had a artifcal surfing reef in its plans. That entire proposal would have been approx $72 million dollars of private funds spent on direct infrastructure in Perth Metro. Jobs, business oportunitys and more central housing, all good ideas for our state. All private money but the government headed by the local mayor of Freo fought againest it as they said it would distract from the local area ocean views and would restrict people from the area in question.

That same area is still being filled in to make way for more container storage[}:)]

Legion

I think part of the problem is the outdated concept of surfers are hippy bums.

It is far more main stream. WA government is ploughing millions into getting WCT event.

Governments plough money into sporting fields for other sports and if money isnt spent on watering, mowing lights weeding etc then these would not be sustainable.

I think if the numbers were done on number of users wave sports would be right up there.

I was just looking at Carine and Scarborough election results and to turn those results lib to labour its about 3000 votes

JUst came across an article about someone who has designed a structure out of steel and claims it can easlly be removed. Also claims less potentail liability than sand bags or rocks.

Jbshack

They wanted to put some wind turbines out on north and south mole.

Enough power to feed a lot of Fremantle

Heritage council fought against it as it would detract from visual impact.

Would have been the same height as the container cranes ???

Not a lot of logic happens in a lot of these matters

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jbshack said...
The Fremantle Island develpment had a artifcal surfing reef in its plans.

Stupid place for it, but yeah, that idea would've had a lot more likelihood than convincing the govt. to dump sandbags up and down metro central. Plus they would've felt guilty about blocking any of the (rare) swell that hits anywhere between the North Mole and Leighton. That thing was a monstrosity - good riddance.

Margaret River WCT event is definitely a different thing than putting a few sand gathering structures along metro central. A bit like you can have a crappy intersection near your house but at the same time the govt. will try to get Rally Australia or Australia F1. Or you need a new airport terminal but they'll throw money at Red Bull Air Race.

I'm all for the idea, just agreeing with and expanding on suba's comment.

Someone go and have a chat with Colin and see what he says.

heres my theory on cheap surf breaks using sand capture

You can use a technique similar to dust fences, that capture dust on construction sites. Except use some flexible bouyant semi permeable fencing set out in rows on the sea floor, 90deg to the literal drift, to capture sand, setout in a particular pattern to get the wave shape right. The bottom of the flexible semi permeable fence just needs to be weighed down, until the sand covers the first 300mm or so. The semi permeable fence, would be something like shade cloth to stop fish getting caught, maybe slightly larger holes, and slightly stronger. set them up at staggered 3m-5m centers across the literal drift. That way you dont need to fill too many sand bags, or you could use a combination of the two, with some sand bags to stabilise the edges of the new sand bank

would be worth a test section imho

straight out front of scarbs, 100m out

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Indodreaming said...


I did not want to call them artifical reefs but I think that with the sand filled bag system a number of just off shore waves could be created in metro Perth.

They could start north of Swanbourne and go all the way to trigg every few hundred metres.

Not a groyne as it messes with the inshore lateral flow but something that just grags and holds some sand to get a bank.

Between surfers, kiters and windsurfers we would be a large voting block.

If you did the same study that Gold Coast has done on value of surfing industry we would show a positive financial benefit for the economy.

Would take a while to do studies but bag system is an easy reverse so maybe a few to start stdy on .

Petition anyone ?

Interesting idea Indodreaming but I don't think sand filled bags would survive a Perth winter. The bags at Watermans have done a great job for what their intended purpose was but they are stacked up against dry land. I think ones completely submerged would be moved by the erosion around them that would naturally be caused in a big swell just by them being there.

The amount of sand that disappeared from Trigg over winter was extraordinary, literally metres of sand went missing from under the water from the winter storms. I don't think the bags would stand a chance no matter how they were configured.

Surely there have to be a few local pollies that get out for a wave every now and then?

I know he's not the main man any more, but I have spotted Alan Carps in the lineup at a southern beachie a few times over the Christmas Break.

Zuke

If you look at the sand trap at Pyramids you can see the power of the ocean as it has underscoured part of the groyne.

What ever you do you need to well and truly tie it down.

Poida's idea I think is brilliant.

The biggest cost would be driving some form of pylon or anchor system into the ocean floor to act as the attachment as it needs to survive storms.

Then this system would catch a volume of sand and then naturally let the rest go.