Thinking of getting a LFT Firewire but not sure how durable they are can anyone share their experience ?

I bought one once.

Snapped it 8 weeks in. Straight through the middle.

You can almost buy 2 PU boards from a local shaper for the same price.

As in any board its a question of durability vs performance, I've had 5 LFT boards over the last 3 years, snapped one and creased one but the damage happened during decent wipeouts in overhead waves. Anyway I love how responsive and "springy" they feel. If you want more durability go for the Helium construction, I had a Chumlee as a groveller for a year once and didn't even have a pressure ding on it.

Thanks Marty , if it snaps in overhead decent surf thats ok but l would be pissed off if it was 2ft , just a bit concerned about rails shattering as reports I've read , was hoping as most reports are 2 years or older that maybe Firewire had done something to improve construction in the last 2 years, cant get any response from Firewire their website contact info is useless

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marty72 said..
What board you thinking of getting? For some info try the Forum http://firewiresurfboards.com/f/

I was looking at frk or skx which only come in LFT, didn't like the gamma , might wait for the new hydroshort which comes in helium, after reading different forums I'm put off by LFT , looked at custom tomo in xtr build but they want $1340

Did ya win lotto lately or fully pro looking for an edge over your competitors? If not I'd recommend looking around for a better deal, the search will not be a difficult challenge for you unless your located in outer space...

I've been thru a lot of LFT tomos (vanguards/vaders) for kiting (normal surf construction - not kite construction), only once has one snapped on me and that was in the surf while prone surfing 3-4ft. It may have already had some stress fractures on the rails from kiting jumps.. not sure.

I usually buy them S/H keep them for 6-12 months and move them on as they get too much foot depression (apparently normal for LFT), but I worry that they will eventually break. Its the only board that is small enough for kiting and can be used for surfing also.

Picking up a Chumlee on special soon to replace timbertek baked potato, its unbelieveably light, so hope its as strong as they say, too good to use it for kiting though

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supafreak said..

marty72 said..
What board you thinking of getting? For some info try the Forum http://firewiresurfboards.com/f/

I was looking at frk or skx which only come in LFT, didn't like the gamma , might wait for the new hydroshort which comes in helium, after reading different forums I'm put off by LFT , looked at custom tomo in xtr build but they want $1340

You can now get a custom Tomo in a different construction www.tomosurf.com but expensive
Hydroshort in Helium would be awesome as well.

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marty72 said..
What board you thinking of getting? For some info try the Forum http://firewiresurfboards.com/f/

I think they have closed their forum which used to be a good source of info
Firewire do some good things with the Tomo collab but IMO they are going backwards.
Seems like they are catering for the grovel market
I agree what Supafreak said as well. Customer service is nonexistent

I've got a few good alternatives to FW I'm looking to sell now that I'm back on pupe. They are virtually indestructible. Ok one got a smashed rail when a skipper drove a dinghy into a rock wall at 5kt and it took the full impact. But last winter every weekend I was repairing dings on pupe boards and in many years of composites I never ever had to do that. They just don't ding. Probably make good kite boards. I think I've got a 5'11", a 6'0" and a 6'3" X 18 1/2" X 2 3/8".

I had an SKX a while ago.
Got caught inside and obliterated
SKX went from creased to snapped to absolutely destroyed in 20 seconds.
Only had it a couple of months
Went back to the shop I bought it from and told my war story
To my surprise they told me I could have another board dirt cheap as it shouldn't have broken so easy.
Needless to say I didn't buy another LFT

biased nz distributor - bert burger invented the tech ,get a sunova..?

Was under the impression Dan Tomo was involved in getting Firewire to start using LFT style construction? As he was having success with XTR and their composite stringer tech.

Bert "invented" the original sandwich style composite deck skin construction with the balsa rail combo? FST.

Am I missing something?

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evansquirrell said..
Was under the impression Dan Tomo was involved in getting Firewire to start using LFT style construction? As he was having success with XTR and their composite stringer tech.

Bert "invented" the original sandwich style composite deck skin construction with the balsa rail combo? FST.

Am I missing something?

No ,you are correct

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evansquirrell said..
Was under the impression Dan Tomo was involved in getting Firewire to start using LFT style construction? As he was having success with XTR and their composite stringer tech.

Bert "invented" the original sandwich style composite deck skin construction with the balsa rail combo? FST.

Am I missing something?

bert put the popsicle stick/ springer made of balsa in taj's boards because taj wanted hi density foam top and bottom instead of balsa. (not sure thats because of the weight taj wanted but i think so) ..otherwise the flex was too spongy ..thats was before daniel. i often discussed this with mark .. so i say daniel adopted it ,as did many who couldnt make the parabolic rail concept work .. chrispy?

Big claim.
Yes, Taj wanted the springer, and yes it would have had a lot to do with making his FW's at the time purely with foam and without the balsa rails. Needed something to stiffen it up. I would have to argue the claim that Daniel adopted this. Very bold statement, and not quite accurate.

My original post was purely stating the facts, and trying to figure out why you were misleading people on here that a Sunova is basically the same as any LFT made FW board? Bit heavy when you distribute/sell said brand. Chill on the promotion front on here, not really the place for it.

Just on those Taj FW boards,it was getting around at one point his boards were not manufactured as a standard FW but were spayed to look like they were.Just a lot of chat about it at the time.

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evansquirrell said..
Big claim.
Yes, Taj wanted the springer, and yes it would have had a lot to do with making his FW's at the time purely with foam and without the balsa rails. Needed something to stiffen it up. I would have to argue the claim that Daniel adopted this. Very bold statement, and not quite accurate.

My original post was purely stating the facts, and trying to figure out why you were misleading people on here that a Sunova is basically the same as any LFT made FW board? Bit heavy when you distribute/sell said brand. Chill on the promotion front on here, not really the place for it.

misleading people? bit much ..

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Macaha said..
Just on those Taj FW boards,it was getting around at one point his boards were not manufactured as a standard FW but were spayed to look like they were.Just a lot of chat about it at the time.

That was my understanding as well

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evansquirrell said..
Chill on the promotion front on here, not really the place for it.

I don't mind people plugging product as long as they are up front on the connection and they can handle some criticism without getting the sulks as they take a few in the groin

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Macaha said..
Just on those Taj FW boards,it was getting around at one point his boards were not manufactured as a standard FW but were spayed to look like they were.Just a lot of chat about it at the time.

Hes not the only one...a lot/all of Kellys boards aint coming from teh firewire factory either

hows this .. join the dots www.spreaker.com/user/wax_radio/ep-102-bert-berge-of-sunova-surfboards

Hey guys, some clarification on the Springer and how it fits into the conversation, as there was a few misleading comments...

First started using it in 2001 and coined the phrase.. it's original purpose was to add more pop and spring back without reducing the range of flex once we hit a wall with weight reduction..
You get to a point where a board gets so light, it basically becomes floppy, just doesn't have the guts to spring the surfer out of a turn..
Traditionally this is where a conventional stringer plays a really important roll, but it's down side is, especially with sandwich construction over light EPS, it connects the deck to the bottom, locking everything together, reducing flex by stopping shear movement, without flex you don't have spring back..
The solution was to lay the stringer over, make it horizontal instead of vertical, placing it exactly in the center of the board, at a point called the neutral axis, not tied to anything, just free floating inside the board, running almost the full length of the board, so it acts like a leaf spring on a cars suspension system...
This way at light loads you don't even know it's there, flexes as usual, but when you really load it, you start to feel the extra spring return..
Justin Redman rode one to an open Australian Longboard title in 2001 and then followed up with a 4th place at the ISA World titles the following year..
Fast forward to 2006 and the creation of FireWire...
FST construction was HD foam top and bottom over EPS with a thicker Parabolic rail than I was running in Sunova...
In a standard durable layup, it worked fine, but in super light team layup, it was too flexy , Kelly was the first one to point it out, I was in full agreement, I had felt it in my personal boards of the same construction.. Solution was obvious..
But,, Mark Price wanted something he could sell and asked for a solution that was visible, not hidden inside the board..
So for Taj's boards we came up with the deck Springer, reduced extra flex without reducing needed flex, but in my opinion it still killed that subtle flex at light loads..
LFT was developed way after my time in FW, it simply applies a similar concept, while I personally feel, it's an improvement over a conventional stringer, I don't feel its more effective than the original design of 2001...

Good one Bert any comment on the Paulownia vers your own construction method?

And and and, I picked up a FW recently with a minor crease in the deck but can't find any satisfying construction details anywhere. White rapidfire baked potato. Anyone know? Should I be worried? Can I effectively prevent the inevitable??

IFocus ... A lot of different materials work as a sandwich skin over EPS, but all will have different flex and return rates, as well as different strengths and stiffness properties, plus you always need to consider weight, and of coarse you want performance...

As a general rule as the density comes up , so does the stiffness... lets look at the extremes , 40kg per M3 XTR ( Extruded Polystyrene )
if you want to use it as a sandwich then 8 to 10mm would be the approximate thickness , to get about the right strength/weight to flex ratio...

Other extreme Jarrah at 900kg per M3... if you use Jarrah then around 0.4 mm skin thickness is about as much as you can use, as the weight comes right up.. but at that thickness you barely have a sandwich, and so flex is an issue and also strength..

Paulownia , comes in around 240 to 300 kg M3 so 1 to 1.2 mm is a nice thickness to use, to get adequate strength and flex at a decent weight..
I personally think, FW running 3mm is just too thick and its too stiff... Too stiff means no flex and spring back, also extra weight and a bouncier ride... Consider they also use 3mm HD foam at 80kg M3 , thats gonna be a massive flex difference and ride between the 2 materials and constructions..

We do use Paulownia in some of our boards, but they fall into a lower price bracket, it looks nice, its strong ..

This is primarily because, we cant get the performance out of it, compared to Balsa.. Done a lot of work with team guys, and we all agree , identical boards in Balsa or Paulownia, and the Paulownia , has like a 0.2 of a second delay in the transfer of energy , every turn just takes a little longer to respond...

I see a lot of Taylor Jensen's personal team boards are done in Balsa.. Think they may have figured out the same thing..

For your average surfer, maybe this degree of analysis is unneeded, they wont feel the difference and just want a nice looking strong board..
But at pro surfer level it all counts..

Plus, its mental they don't use vents.. another topic..

Awesome Bert thanks for the answer,

BTW a mate of mine still rides one of your old comp boards, thankfully his magic board you made him finally died after 10 years (he took too many waves off me with it)

Cheers Bert all the best.

Snapped my new FireWire after 30 waves . Soft 3ft wave bottom turn snapped and delaminated. After stripping the glass away for repair the thing was dusted . They obviously didn't blow the dust off before laminating . Any way all eps boards from FireWire ,dhd and every other top named brand they are all made in taihland from a kid working for a bowl of rice with the exception of pu boards which I bet your bottom dollar they are made over seas as well. My argument is all these companies complain about about side ways boards and other indo made brands because it destroys the jobs for sharpers here in Australia. But they are doing it on a larger scale and building weaker boards in taihland then Indo and charge an absolute fortune. Any board you buy now in eps dhd FireWire or any other top brand are made overseas and shipped here with a pretty little tomo or Slater 20c rice sticker . And these boards would cost them about 30 bucks to make . They use the 2nd worse grade eps the worse grade is used in refrigerated panels. You Kmart 10 dollar esky has better quality foam in it . Not that it makes much difference when kinaroad starts producing because their quality of foam will be the same and there glassers are less experienced the overseas glassers so their boards are going to be just as bad if not worse . It's all promotional crap for retired pro surfers to make coin so they don't have to get a job as a bricklayers labour. There really isn't a quality eps board made to date by any company. Not until they start using h grade foam and start running double or triple stringers which would a slight bit more weight but would last more then a handfull of waves