Was chatting to Dave Basher today in the water about how our waves in SA are weak and fat so in a LB you need something that will give you speed and glide on the wave.

What do you think you need in a longboard to achieve this??

Flat forward rocker

Flat rocker up forward or long entry rocker, decent glass job with a bit of weight and a bit of length. With a bit of tail kick you can have a nice fast trim with good turning capability. One fin is all you need for a bit less drag. It sounds like I'm talking about a log but modern rails and bottom shape would work well too.

I had my eye on this before I got injured and it would have been perfect. Tak DT4 and it was 11 feet from memory . Some lucky bastard would have this now

Local shaper for local waves.

Agree with Mac re Local shaoer.

Quad will heap with speed! Would hinder the rest though

The thing is we don't have any shapers who do longboards. All of them do white thrusters.

Had an experience with one re. a midlength and i was talking about 7.10 long and he said I should be on a 6.8 as it has " heaps of volume "

Glide = weight

In terms of local shaper I would disagree. Lots of good boards out there these days that would suit those waves. Can also advise a shaper what / where you are surfing and your level and they will make you something suitable.

In all honesty though I would think you have boards suitable for what you surf already. Your secret to success will be perseverance and spending more time in the water. Surfing takes a long time to master even the basics. It doesn't happen over night. You need to do the time. Watch lots of videos and see how people are moving on their boards and what they are doing with their arms & legs - extending and compressing and looking where you are wanting to go - these are the key ingredients. Get hold of Nick Carrols second book on intermediate surfing and have a read. Yes it's short board focussed but you will learn a huge amount. Maybe invest some cash in some lessons. You do that in most other sports - tennis, golf, snowboarding etc so why is surfing any different. No substitute for time in the water

I think this is what you need..

Tried and proven design principles ..in 9'6"


- Flatter rocker profile
- Wider, rounded Square tail
- Pinched 50/50 rails
- Rolled bottom
- Glass-on or box fin
- Volan, tint or pigment lamination

Copyright Big M.

Flat Rocker
Low rails
Parralell rails or as close to as you can get
Small adjustments in the bottom contours

...if you don't have any joy with your local shapers ring Greg Brown from Gash...there's a very good reason he is almost unbeatable on a longboard and most of the west coast of Vicco ride his boards

SDR surfed the waves around Mandurah WA for years when shaping in WA which are mainly fat waves - he'd be able to shape you a screamer and deliver to your door

+1 on SDR, check out Clearwater surfboards. SDR makes awesome longboards


www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Surfing/Longboarding/Review-Clearwater-Whalebone-93/

Width.
Two boards the same except for width, the wider one will be faster.

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sgo said..
Width.
Two boards the same except for width, the wider one will be faster.

Sorry mate, but in most cases that would not be true. A wider board will be more stable & easier to paddle due to added volume. But given "two boards are the same except for width" ie same outline & rocker. The narrower board will be faster once up & running unless the wave is so tiny that the extra surface area comes into play. A greater possibility for shortboards in small waves due to less length (glide), but highly unlikely with longboards unless you are very heavy & surfing very small waves. Generally speaking (to McHenry) it would not be the case.

We are talking weak, fat waves, width matters.

Yep...but no...weak, fat waves, length matters.

I see you have a lot of 666'ers on your profile, so I will word it this way...take a look at downwinder SUP's. They are long & narrow for a reason. Speed & Glide

I don't think you can compare downwinders to surfboards, totally different. Probably displacement hull, not planing.
Wider boards will plane earlier, so that's what you need to achieve in marginal conditions.
once your planing, then you can glide

Simple. You need one of these.
10'2" x 23.5" x 3.5" 50/50 rails Sweet glide with nose rides when there is a bit more speed.



10'4" x 23.5" x 3.5" same specs as above. He is heavier than me!

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Sandsy1 said...
Simple. You need one of these.
10'2" x 23.5" x 3.5" 50/50 rails Sweet glide with nose rides when there is a bit more speed.



10'4" x 23.5" x 3.5" same specs as above. He is heavier than me!

Nice boards Sandsy. Who makes those??

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sgo said..
I don't think you can compare downwinders to surfboards, totally different. Probably displacement hull, not planing.
Wider boards will plane earlier, so that's what you need to achieve in marginal conditions.
once your planing, then you can glide

"The narrower board will be faster once up & running unless the wave is so tiny that the extra surface area comes into play."

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Sandsy1 said..
Simple. You need one of these.
10'2" x 23.5" x 3.5" 50/50 rails Sweet glide with nose rides when there is a bit more speed.



10'4" x 23.5" x 3.5" same specs as above. He is heavier than me!

Nice board...that's very similar to the one I recommended via PM McHenry

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McHenry said..
Was chatting to Dave Basher today in the water about how our waves in SA are weak and fat so in a LB you need something that will give you speed and glide on the wave.

What do you think you need in a longboard to achieve this??

Mate if the wave is gutless why would you need speed,glide is all you need,its not like you need speed to get around sections from what you have been saying.

Your asking about longboards,you sold yours for the McCoys because they are better suited for your waves you said

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Macaha said..

McHenry said..
Was chatting to Dave Basher today in the water about how our waves in SA are weak and fat so in a LB you need something that will give you speed and glide on the wave.

What do you think you need in a longboard to achieve this??

Mate if the wave is gutless why would you need speed,glide is all you need,its not like you need speed to get around sections from what you have been saying.

Your asking about longboards,you sold yours for the McCoys because they are better suited for your waves you said

The McCoy is suited for our waves.

This is just a discussion thread, it's not about McHenrying a new board.

Shall I start a McHenrying thread >>

Thoughts on this theory???

Instead of having a board that you expect to glide and pick up speed what about a board you need to surf to generate speed.

Just standing there and expecting your board to go quicker isn't going to work. You need to either use the rails and fins to pick up speed or walk the board. The most important thing though is a good bottom turn, projection down the line comes from getting off the bottom.


Imo a wide chunky log is going to pick up speed on take off but after that it is decelerating unless you trim it or put it high in the wave. Yes it will stay on the wave and roll along but it will decelerate to a point where you are matching the wave speed and hence, due to the width and loss of speed will make it very hard to turn.

So for me you can just as easily go the other way and have a narrower board that will go from rail to rail.

If you look at the pros on really low volume SBs they way they keep there momentum is through doing small turns from rail to rail. The same applies to a LB or any surfboard getting over flat sections has to do with keeping your momentum..

Thoughts??

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surfbroker said..
I think this is what you need..

Tried and proven design principles ..in 9'6"


- Flatter rocker profile
- Wider, rounded Square tail
- Pinched 50/50 rails
- Rolled bottom
- Glass-on or box fin
- Volan, tint or pigment lamination

Copyright Big M.

....which is exactly what I was on when I was surfing with McHenry..... Tyler step deck 9'6". Very heavy glassing so you have to paddle hard to get it up to speed but then it just holds momentum across flat spots. Because I'm running a conventional 9" dolphin fin it still pivots (relatIvey) easily from the tail. It will not, however, gain speed by winding up and down the wave, more point and shoot and enjoy the momentum. Bugger to paddle though.... As a counterpoint, took an epoxy 7s superfish xl 8' out just before dark the same day, surf a little bigger. Loved the lighter weight and ability to drive from the wide tail through the quad fins, gaining speed each pump up and down. Ultimately much faster than the Tyler as you cover more ground vertically and with cutting back towards the curl. At the end of the ride you've covered about the same distance in length of ride, but just surfed the wave differently. McCoys very similar.

Which gets me to the point of my reply.... Two ways to maximise fun in small/fat/weak waves- length/flat rocker/mass/single fin (momentum) or wide tail/light weight/ double concave/hard rail edges on the tail/multi fin (speed from these features and drive from the surfer who wishes to utilise them). I wouldn't say one is better than the other but swapping keeps your surfing fresh. McCoys combine different bottom contours but retain tail width and add thickness (rear footed surfers love them.) They do have quite a bit of rocker (talking the alround not potbelly) but also have mass due to 6+6+6oz glassing which adds momentum if not glide.

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SP said..
Thoughts on this theory???

Instead of having a board that you expect to glide and pick up speed what about a board you need to surf to generate speed.

Just standing there and expecting your board to go quicker isn't going to work. You need to either use the rails and fins to pick up speed or walk the board. The most important thing though is a good bottom turn, projection down the line comes from getting off the bottom.


Imo a wide chunky log is going to pick up speed on take off but after that it is decelerating unless you trim it or put it high in the wave. Yes it will stay on the wave and roll along but it will decelerate to a point where you are matching the wave speed and hence, due to the width and loss of speed will make it very hard to turn.

So for me you can just as easily go the other way and have a narrower board that will go from rail to rail.

If you look at the pros on really low volume SBs they way they keep there momentum is through doing small turns from rail to rail. The same applies to a LB or any surfboard getting over flat sections has to do with keeping your momentum..

Thoughts??

Highly controversial SP

Sounds like your implying a LB can be surfed non traditionally lol

But yeah I agree.....I had a 6' Firewire Hellfire that amazed me how it could skate across the flats. Like you were tick-tacking a skateboard from rail to rail to maintain momentum. It has huge concave in the bottom & a step down rail. Once it got going it just flew. Was just hard transitioning from Summer on the LB to winter on that board, paddling into waves. Almost bought JB's 6'4 not long ago, but he sold it for his asking price just as we were coming to an agreement.

I'm just wondering if Speed and Glide can be used in context together with a long board ? Most long boards i've had , had glide. They were heavy single fins. The one ive had that had speed, was a modern shape and thruster, that had heaps of speed and maneuverability and l would say very little glide. Got rid of that one, it was like riding a short-board on steroids.

If all else fails:

Outboard on the back will give you speed

Wings will give you glide.

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McHenry said..
Was chatting to Dave Basher today in the water about how our waves in SA are weak and fat so in a LB you need something that will give you speed and glide on the wave.

What do you think you need in a longboard to achieve this??

Been following this thread with interest, in part, due to my local surfing spot conditions and particular style of surfing. Also, there's a wealth of knowledge from all contributors !

I surf a reef break with several coral heads, around a rocky cay, some 500 mts offshore, separated from the beach by a deep channel some 100 mts wide. Waves here are usually shoulder high mushers or smaller. I can start on a shoulder high wave on the outside, connect a knee high on the inside and ride it until it flattens to a bump and dissappears into the deep channel inside. Then, I face a long paddle back to the lineup around the reef, instead of paddling back through the white water.

I have a relaxed, down the line style of surfing, like to ease into waves early and love to connect the outside waves with those on the inside and ride all the way to the deep channel inside.

After much trial and error i've settled on some general design concepts that work well for me, until i know better.

For the long paddle back out, i favor a buoyant, (10+ liters over my 80 kg weight) flat rockered, easy paddling longboard 10' or more, not too wide, that i can also knee paddle for a change. Once surfing, rolled bottoms, straight outlines, 50/50 rails with smooth features, instead of concaves and sharp rails, allow me to catch and connect the mushy waves, specially, on the short period weak and fat summer waves. Single fin on a wide square tail.

Do i favor glide? You bet. Speed? It comes as a function of the wave i'm riding, and if i drop off the wave due to drag inducing features, i'll be slow as tar. So, for my case, glide first, then speed.

Compared to other peers who share this spot with me, on smaller longboards, or those on shorter, thicker and wider 666's, when sharing a wave i usually out glide them and reach the inner channel faster on a longer, floatier, smoother bottomed, flatter rockered, narrower board.

Glide is a component of speed when you are between turns and trimming without generating speed by turning your board so a board with good glide has speed without your input so you're better off with a wider full railed low rockered board more area means better planing while drive is speed generated by your input by turning the board

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Ricardo1709 said..
Glide is a component of speed when you are between turns and trimming without generating speed by turning your board so a board with good glide has speed without your input so you're better off with a wider full railed low rockered board more area means better planing while drive is speed generated by your input by turning the board

Well said Mc Henry get yourself a 906 or 10 foot Whalebone by CLEARWATER SURFBOARDS as Steve to maybe play with rocker if standard has too much rock and roll