Like the subject line says, how do you deal with wipeouts and hold-downs?
Back around the New Year, I was out on a messy day that was probably a solid 4 ft. Got sucked over the falls on a decent set wave, and thought I was gonna die. Reality is, I was probably down for well less than 10 seconds, but thought I was never coming up.
It's freaked me out ever since.
I give a lecture to 3rd yr uni students on the mammalian dive reflex, competitive breath holding etc, and know that in terms of max breath holding 'motivation' is a key factor. I also know that with competitive breath holders, they often hyperventilate first to load up on oxygen. Not great with free divers, especially those highly competitive 'type A' personalities, the hyperventilation can be a key factor in 'shallow water black out' - which doesn't end well.
I was out 'surfing' yesterday - which was almost entirely paddling for the horizon, given some of the set waves coming through - and ended up pulling out of nearly every wave I paddled for. And when I say 'nearly every wave', I actually mean every single damn wave. The fear of a hold down had me freaked out, along with the waves jacking up on the sand bank.

How have you dealt with it in the past, if ever?

Most will have a different reply ,some may actually say they enjoy it
Similar thing happened to me years ago and sadly still rattles me today,I was blowing bubbles and out of breath
until I grabbed my legrope and pulled myself up,I didnt know which way the surface was I was screwed.So I still
to this day do pull back on too many waves.Scared the sh-t out of me.

I did this course a few years ago before an overseas trip. www.bettraining.com/

Was excellent the techniques and confidence it provides.

I've not really had any negative thoughts since.

When leggies first arrived,as soon as I could I grabbed my ankle and just pulled my self up.This was at a powerful point break I frequented.Only place I've ever been held down.Even though some beachies can get grunty,I've never had to do that.

I surf some solid waves still. I just work I'm relaxing and not panicking. I find the adrenal burn of fear while paddling out or in a wipeout is far more exhausting than the reality of any wipeout if I am in a good headspace.

Sitting on a couch without any hyper ventilation I can hold my breath for a minute fairly easily and about 1.45 if I make myself feel bad.

Relaxing and waiting for the wave to release me is the key. I rarely struggle to get to the top until the wave has passed by. I spread out like a starfish to increase my body's drag on the board. I often climb my legrope.

I am not too worried about the hold downs. I worry about the flogging. Getting hit my board, twisted by the lip, belted into the bottom. I have been concussed, opened up my head, busted eardrums, etc from impact injuries while surfing. I pull back because I am scared of getting hurt, rather than drowning.

So, in short, relax, relax, relax. Learning meditation is a good skill as it teaches you how to get into that mindful headspace easily and quickly.

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kudos to you WA surfers , got pounded and flogged severely at the Bommie left of Main Break in my younger days , dive down and hold the bottom was recommended , didn't work , flogged across the reef into waist deep water .
Fittness is the key . if you can't surf regularly swim and stretch.

I nearly drown at Margs Main Break as a 19 year old on solid 8ft plus day (thats 15 to 20ft East Coast ) it was actually on a smaller one I got lazy and it took me out near the end no big deal until I couldn't surface, swam to the surface and got sucked straight back to the bottom and held.
Panicked my way up in the end.

Shaken but paddled back out and took a wide one in. Only 3 of us out and no one else saw it.

It actually wouldn't have been that long under water

As Drip says relax, I have had longer hold downs since (in my late 50's Indo) but different mind set and yeah have used the leggie to drag myself up hoping it didn't snap.

PS Bazz as you would know Main Break is more of a beach break compared to the Bommie

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bazz61 said..
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kudos to you WA surfers , got pounded and flogged severely at the Bommie left of Main Break in my younger days , dive down and hold the bottom was recommended , didn't work , flogged across the reef into waist deep water .
Fittness is the key . if you can't surf regularly swim and stretch.

Bommie is super super heavy and the wash throughs to the inside are horrible. I only surf it on small days. With any size on it, I look elsewhere.

You have to relax and never panic. Easy said than done right.
just last week I heard of a massive swell coming so I grabbed the 7'6" gun but Had no leggie hardly any wax But That didn't stop me. I arrived to a solid 10-12 swell,,,,,,massive and nasty.

The first set come through and cleared the pack.I thought Good I'll stick it out for another set, that was my Big mistake.
next min the set of the day come through.
I sat with my Eyes wide my mouth open And fully focused, I wasn't waiting on the second wave so I turned hard and fast and went like hell to catch it

But fumbled my dbl shot Decaf soy latte From falling off the dashboard.
thats when the panic happened..
I knew if I didn't get home straight away that coffee would stain my blue suede boat shoes.

A few months ago I tried doing the Wim Hof breathing. I should get back to it. I am old, not very fit and scared. First time on the inhale hold I did 1.5mins and about 1.25 on the exhales. After a week I was doing nearly 2mins on the inhale. I am sure with practise it would get better. Don't know if it would help when paddling out for ten minutes and then getting hit by a big set just as you get to the "safety zone". Might be worth looking in to.

Best post so far Cobra.

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bigmc said..
A few months ago I tried doing the Wim Hof breathing. I should get back to it. I am old, not very fit and scared. First time on the inhale hold I did 1.5mins and about 1.25 on the exhales. After a week I was doing nearly 2mins on the inhale. I am sure with practise it would get better. Don't know if it would help when paddling out for ten minutes and then getting hit by a big set just as you get to the "safety zone". Might be worth looking in to.

Second the Wim Hof method very helpful....alos learn how to hold you ankle over your head and kiss your own ass goodbye

sometimes when you cop a beating even as you say it may have been only 10 seconds, but it can be an awfully long 10 seconds especially if you fall awkwardly, get hit by the lip or don't really have a full breathe, as much as people say to just relax sometimes its not that easy and even when you know you should be relaxing you don't,
I don't really know a surfer that hasn't had a moment when they thought they where close, but once you realize what you did wrong that's the first step, general fitness is a big thing, being comfortable in the water is another (not just on a board, even swimming around copping a beating) , if you've ever seen videos of big wave surfers training there's a reason they train like they do in pools etc, there area a few course out there and some good material like mentioned above


Jarryd

I collected these tips over the past 40 years and they help me when it gets scary.

1) if you know you are going to get a beating and have the chance - take two big breaths in and out and then hold a last big one (no more or you seriously risk black out)

2) start counting the seconds you are underwater

3) try and relax and don't fight the wave

4) only use your arms to get to try to reach the surface do not kick at all (big leg and bum muscles chew oxy and don't help much)

5) get the best leg rope you can find and replace it at least every 6 months.

In particular the counting really helps me to relax and it surprises me how often I come up in well under 10 seconds. A 15 second hold down is very rare for me and any longer and you are getting into double wave hold down country (I have only had two in my life).

There is also the Ross Clarke Jones method of going to your happy place (dancing with hot chicks at the disco apparently), but he is also reputed to have said that you can take on anything when you're high on coke.

I have to stress that I have not tried the RCJ method and DO NOT ENDORSE IT (yep I hate disco)

Just say no to disco!

Also a few guys around here including an ex pro surfer are wearing buoyancy vests and swear by them. I have picked one up for the next time it gets big because I sink like a rock and worry about getting KOd by my board. Big for me is anything over a genuine 4-6ft so I'll feel a bit self conscious, but if a dent in my pride and a $100 outlay are the price to pay to get out when it is solid and fun small price I reckon.

Figure, most fit surfers can hold their breath for 45 seconds. That's enough time for 2 Wiamea waves to roll over you.
Yeah, you get tossed, so stay loose and alert, open your eyes when the thrashing ends, enjoy the unique view, and head for the light, away from the dark.
Now if THREE Wiamea waves roll over you, it's time to panic.
From a guy who caught a rail at Sunset, swam to within 50 feet of shore, saw guys pointing out to Kammieland, swam out the channel hoping a closeout set would catch my board.....didn't, swam out past Kammie to outside Rocky, got my board, paddled straight in, and caught the last right at Beach Park, just before a closing out, nobody out day at 12+ Pipe.
Would have been hairy getting in at Pipe with an 8'6" semigun.

Thanks everyone for all the input.

I need to take a closer look at Wim Hof and the bettraining (or similar).
I personally seem to have a deep-seated aversion to holding my breath. Maybe it's the lack of fitness, but I struggle to sit on the bottom of my pool and hold my breath without some odd panic setting in after what feels like only a few seconds.
I like the counting idea. I will spend some time in the pool, holding my breath and counting. Even if I get a clearer idea of where my 'panic' point is, counting in a hold down will (may?) delay the freak out.

Do it on land first too.
if you ride the train or bus, try to get between stops or stations on one breath. Then 2 stops, or consecutive breath holds with one breath while train is stopped. Then apply to water

also work up to free diving... join a club, group or go train with a course initially

good luck!

Consider. We"re somewhat human.
Longest practical breathe holder does 6 minutes.
So, we should 1/4 that, if we practice and get in shape.
That's physical. If panic is the problem....surf more.

Breath holding in a pool can be dangerous. Shallow water blackout. Do it sitting or lying down on dry land and then in the pool only if you have a partner and a system in place if you do blackout.

Ones fear can stop them from so much

Once bitten twice shy is not just a cliche . I have had some big spills over the years. So many broken bones and sketchy scenarios while waiting for help

Not one accident ever spooked me or stopped me doing what i love .....until i got fin chopped,it was not a bad injury compared to others i have had,but being in the ocean by myself when it happened etc etc spooked me for a few years . Still not sure why that accident over others affected me,and i still think about it at certain times

The mind is a hard beast to heal

there is a good write up on fitness for older surfers here ...
www.swellnet.com/news/talking-heads/2020/10/20/cris-mills-the-surf-coach-you-didnt-realise-you-need

Bit of footage of Kai Lenny coping with a couple of foamies on the head courtesy of Nazare
Watch the clock & count the seconds, under & between foamies

www.instagram.com/tv/CHIfLxMB2sa/?utm_source=ig_embed

I don't know if any of you tune into Oz Longboarding Thursday night podcasts 7 pm QLD time on FB?
Tonight the panel discuss the scariest thing they have encountered while surfing,so maybe the hold
down topic may come up.

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GWatto said..
Bit of footage of Kai Lenny coping with a couple of foamies on the head courtesy of Nazare
Watch the clock & count the seconds, under & between foamies

www.instagram.com/tv/CHIfLxMB2sa/?utm_source=ig_embed

That is a serious flogging.

Holding breath practice should always be done under duress.
On flat land hold your breath and walk count your steps, how many?
start walking up stairs count your steps hold your breath how many?
ride the treadly up a hill how many leg pumps on one breath.
do this for two maybe three weeks every day at least one of them
theres no extra training there is no equipment everyone has to walk through the day it's easy to do
than you start swimming laps underwater
if you have access to a pool epic
if not the beach is free
one swim a week

over three four weeks you will notice an improvement a drastic one even if you haven't swum or been in a pool just walking stairs or riding

you have to train your mind if you sit at the bottom of a pool and hold your breath great but it is really really hard to improve without putting your mind through duress.

Its the stress that you need to trigger, you have to take yourself into an uncomfortable realm and have the battle

Theres a set of stairs near my house if I'm not in the water for a week or 2 I do the old hold breath and march up and down them, must look like a weirdo but really don't care

No such thing as longboard "hold downs".
Your board cannot handle powerful waves and will break on the 1st pushtru or wipeout.
Gun boards are not "longboards".

Great, Thanks for your input

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LeeD said..
No such thing as longboard "hold downs".
Your board cannot handle powerful waves and will break on the 1st pushtru or wipeout.
Gun boards are not "longboards".

Thanks brains trust