In what situations do you find a prone surfboard to turn better than a SUP? When do thinner rails/lower volume win out vs. the leverage of paddle and other advantages? Asking cause I've been getting into prone surfing, wondering how a ~ 7-6 mid length will turn vs. a 100L 8' SUP -- obviously confounded by skill and other factors but just curious what you all have found.

In small waves I really enjoy surfing a 9' prone longboard and then hopping on 7-6 SUP groveler for second half of session

You should with a little practice be able to turn the prone board harder. The only thing I would caution you about is that most mid lengths are designed to go well in some size so if you are looking for a board to use when it is small make sure you get one that is designed for that or check out short board grovelers. They are really fun if you are looking for something that you can toss around in small surf.

Thanks - yeah I really want to try a grovel shortboard, figured I needed to work my way down to paddle one, lol I tried a 5-8 fish and kept falling off trying to sit on it.

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Kisutch said..
In what situations do you find a prone surfboard to turn better than a SUP? When do thinner rails/lower volume win out vs. the leverage of paddle and other advantages?

SUP boards are a kind of wave power amplifier, it generates the speed that is the fuel of radical turns in gutless waves.

So a prone surfboard will handle better then a SUP in conditions where the SUP would be amplifying too much to control properly:
In powerful waves.

Or, to put it another way: you switch to thinner rails to handle more speed and power and commit to aggressive vertical surfing. But there is a limit on how low you can go with a SUP since you must be able to paddle standing up on it (especially with chop). To get over this limit, you must forgo standing up and go prone.

PS: In my experience, SUP is always better than prone in small waves. Unless you have the technique to properly prone surf a mini-Simmons.

Thanks Colas!

I find prone can cut back much more quickly that is number one for sure. Also you can square up to the wave easier after bottom turning. The smaller size fits better, basically everything is better IF you are on decent enough waves to have speed, the board is performance enough, and you can paddle well and catch them (a big if). Also duck diving is a game changer. But I found prone much more finicky if it is too wide or floaty in tail for conditions you don't have paddle to lean on and it is hopeless to bottom turn. I had to give up prone after it hurt my back too much, but I don't miss it much because I was already starting to surf more open faced or weird big waves to try and avoid the crowds and sup was a big upgrade in fun factor with no loss in turning for me at that point. One last thing, sometimes mid-length prone boards can be worst of both worlds, can't duck dive and turn like a short board, can't catch waves like a longboard. Half the time I see proners I can't believe how bad they do just struggling to catch waves and go down the line or make any decent turns. The other half I can't believe how many young rippers there are now looking like pros and they are just the new normal for advanced amateurs.

Thanks SLS, yeah I could see the mid being in between in bad ways:) I did see the shaper surfing one looking like Devon Howard but he rips and it was on a rare day that long period, angled swell turned jetty beach break into a point break like wave.
I also seek out empty waves going at first light and roaming, would like prone option cause we only have one break that works w S winds and it can have a small take off, can SUP it but can be hard to nibble around the edges there.

Most of my surfing has been on shortboards, but over the years I have had a chance to surf 5 or 6 mid lengths and I don't recall any that I couldn't duck dive. I think from reading one of your other posts that I am very similar in size to you and if you stick to something in the 6'10"-7'2" range I don't think you will have a problem duck diving at all. I don't know if you are looking to get something new or used, but if I still lived in the PNW and I was getting a mid length I would take a look at a 7'0" or 7'2" firewire Boss Up. I have not surfed one but I have had a lot of Dan's other boards and he is a great shaper. It isn't the best in the really small stuff, but reportedly does okay and in the vids it looks like it surfs well off the tail which if you are trying to progress towards a shortboard might be a better choice than a more "Devon Howard feet in the wax all about the glide" style of mid length. With that tail, the narrower width and the paddle power it also would be a good board to have around in the winter on that coast.

Thanks SG. I got a chance to surf a 7-4 FireWire seaside and beyond, also a torq 7-2, same wave alternating with my 7-6 SUP (on a surf trip). All a blast, bottom turn feels better on the prone, but I can crank cutback harder on the SUP cause of paddle, whether on wave side or switched up. But I had a nice wall on FireWire and just pumping and doing a carve on it was one of the best feelings I've had on a wave.

It's good to hear you had some fun on the prone boards. If you get to spend more time on one and get used to using more upper body rotation you will be able to snap a much harder top turn with a prone board, especially frontside.

Thanks, Yeah hopefully I get some good opportunities this fall when back to mostly closed out beach break

after a few more days my main take away is that for me, wave power and position/timing are biggest factors and I'm more likely to capitalize when on a sup cause I'm more dialed in on take off stuff. With SUP, frontside, I feel like I get better cuttback from drop wallet style turn bracing behind back than paddle switch and lead w upper body, but the paddle switch better for finishing turn into whitewater. I got a few images of my cuttback and thought it looked awkward w counter-rotation, but when I pause a vid of my fave SUP cuttbacks from the web they look kinda similar, like here's jackson close. Lol not saying I surf like him.

One thing that I like when switching between a SUP and prone is to keep the rail length similar, it allows you to draw similar lines.
For e.x. I can switch between a 9'2" x 28.5" 124L SUP and 9'x24" 92L prone and draw similar lines and fit in similar parts of the wave. And then I can switch between a 7'6" x 28.5" 110L SUP and 7'6 x 22.25" 53L prone and draw similar lines and have a similar takeoff spot.
When the waves get more dumpy, I prefer a shorter rail line. Shapes like a Christenson Long Phish, Seaside & Beyond indeed work well in both waves small & large.
Don't go too low in volume for prone midlengths & longboards. Volume is your friend. I have a 9' x 24" prone board that is 5L smaller than my smallest SUP. I recently discovered that I can SUP it. I can paddle it out the back and if I just want to ride it prone, I leave the paddle out the back, and paddle back out prone to retrieve the paddle.