Bamboo deck on the standups can case trouble I am told, less give in the deck, prone for splitting, I looked and spoke with some shapers and they say that it is on the way out, Pvc sandwich is good and light along with AST or EST, best to talk direct to the makers or manufacturers I think, anyone wanna reply

Ok I don't know much about board construction, this little read is by Jimmy Lewis, it may be a bit long winded and sound like a bit of an advert but I had only read it this morning on fb and thought it was relevant.

I do own a Jimmy Lewis board (my 3rd due to being happy with the durability of previous ones) but I have no connection and don't sell SUP's. I am just a happy paddler and I also have two other brands as well.

State of the Stand Up Industry

There are lots of stand up boards and paddles on the market today. There are the established big brands and there are small, relatively unheard of brands and seemingly more and more with each new issue of a stand up magazine. Everyone wants to sell you a stand up board and paddle. There are shop owners who have “their own” brands now. Costco sells stand up board and paddles. The Chinese manufactures of any product related to stand up paddling or surfing sends emails to any and all shops and business who have anything to do with sports, whether it's water sports or not, offering said business to produce boards, paddles or whatever, for them. Many of these shops go for it and get boards made from these factories with their shop name or, more often, some clever Hawaiian sounding name for “their brand.” These shops or other eager entrepreneurs, see a way to make some money off of this new sport and there's NOTHING wrong with that.

It's the person who's going to be BUYING these boards that needs some information. Now WHO is designing and shaping these boards? And how are they built? Most people, especially the end buyer now days, don't know that this is an important thing to know. Most of the stand up boards on the market today, even a few of the “big” brands, are using what I call a “ regular surfboard lamination” construction. That consists of a shaped piece of Styrofoam with a shell of epoxy and a few layers of fiberglass. Some are putting a thin veneer of bamboo or some other type of wood, claiming that this is a “sandwich” and that it's BETTER than a PVC sandwich. This is fantasy. The bamboo or whatever wood they might be using is a LITTLE bit better than another layer of fiberglass but it will dent after a short period of time on the water just as a board that's built with only the layers of fiberglass.

Some people have no idea what sandwich construction is. I'll explain simply:
Sandwich construction is where you have two or more pieces of fiberglass on each side of a thin piece of foam material, usually 1/8” or ¼” PVC high density foam. This is vacuumed onto the Styrofoam blank on the top and the bottom of the board creating the “sandwich” construction. The thicker the piece of material that's between the layers of glass (the glass being the “bread” of the sandwich and the PVC or other material being the “cheese” of the sandwich.) the stronger and stiffer the board will be. Boards with only 2-3 layers of glass do not have much impact strength and they dent easily, especially over a period of time. Having a thin piece of bamboo between two layers of glass is NOT much of a sandwich because the bamboo is not thick enough to create the proper engineering of the sandwich principal. PVC Sandwich is the lightest, strongest construction available. And it's a little more expensive to do because the PVC high density foam used to create a proper sandwich construction is expensive.

Quality of the construction of the boards, regardless if it's a sandwich construction or regular surfboard lamination construction, is important. One of my deckpad suppliers who is in China, has told me that because of the stand up craze, ALL of the major board manufacturers in China are having a BOOM in business. This is because there are so many people coming out of the wood work to get these boards made so they can cash in on this new market. She told me that now the factories are super busy but don't have enough workers to produce so they try to entice workers from OTHER factories to come and work with them. So at this time in China, the workers are moving around a lot, from factory to factory looking for better pay. What this means is that the quality is not consistent.

Most people are not aware of this but all of the boards on the market are all hand made. Some may have molds to keep the board shapes the same but most everything else, including the shaping, is done by hand. They don't just mix up a few chemicals and pour them into a mold and a finished board pops out. Making surfboards (stand up boards) takes skill. Even though all of these boards are made in large quantities, they are all individually built by hand. And those hands need to be skilled and the quality control people in the factories have to be skilled at overseeing the construction. When there is a gypsy work force, this quality and consistency takes a back seat to quantity!! And that's all these companies care about. There is one factory that my China deckpad supplier told me about that had JUST received an order for 2500 stand up boards!!! And the week before this company was just about to close the doors on their business. That means that since they were JUST about to go out of business, their business had probably been sliding for quite a while and they probably had been laying off workers for a while. Now with orders totaling 2500, where do they get workers to build these boards? They have to hire them and train them. Meaning that the quality of the boards is going to be marginal for a LONG time before the new work force has it dialed on how to do them correctly.

So when you go into a shop and the shop has its own brand to sell you, and that board is a few hundred dollars less than a bigger brand named board, you can be pretty sure that board was a generic shape from a Chinese factory that this shop owner had built with their own brand name on it and that it's probably not built to last more than a few months before it starts having problems-- more than likely, denting of the deck and any other area where it might have impact or pressure. Also those boards without sandwich construction are heavier. Weaker and heavier.

The same goes with paddles too. Paddle makers send out mass emails to shops and the shop owner will order a pile of the paddles with a fancy name on it and sell them. The fact is that anything will work. Boards or paddles, anything will work. But there's a HUGE difference in something that will merely work and something that works great!! Anyone can feel the difference, not just experts. In fact it's the novice that can really feel the difference even more so than someone with more experience.

There are a few paddle makers who DESIGN the paddle themselves, such as Jimmy Terrell of Quickblade Paddles. He designs ALL of the Quickblade paddles. He's not buying generic shapes from a manufacturer and putting his logo on it like many shop owners and other “brands” do. Just as I do ALL of the designs and shapes of every one of the boards in my line. I don't have anyone else doing boards for me like SEVERAL of the “big” brands do, where they have some ghost shapers doing the boards and then they put their name on the boards. When you go shopping for a board or when you're doing research on what board to buy, do some investigating on WHO is behind the brand (who designed and shaped the boards). There are some brands that have someone's name on it, but those “names” have never shaped a board in their lives (or at least never did it for a living). There are brands that don't use the shaper's name as their brand such as Paddle Surf Hawaii, but there IS a guy who shapes and designs those boards (Blane Chambers). The brand 404 also has a real shaper behind their name. I've been shaping for 44 years and I put my name on all the boards that I make. My signature, along with the shark logo is my brand.

Check things out before you go out and buy something that you've “saved” a few hundred dollars on.

Thanks and aloha,
Jimmy Lewis

Well,isn't that a wealth of information.Thanks I realy enjoyed the lesson.

Hi This is Greg from Sabre surf, I think tha tthis is at least one of the most truthful replies ever, everything I read in the Jimmy Lewis reply quote was so on the mark, I have spent nearly 8 years in China with this market, and I have to say best comments ever

We all know that SUP are a craze, we all know tha tpeople and companies /business try to cash in on that Market, do as he says , ask , check out their website, what do they know and last of all , who did they copy from ???
We at Sabre surf Industries , SSI do not copy, we manufacture, as Jimmy Lewis says , wha tbrand ???

I agree that PVC foam is often lighter than bamboo , it also has no "direction" to it unlike stronger timber veneer or Bamboo (unidirecional or 0/90 deg) woven sheets but these stronger materials are usually denser (heavier) and must/can be used in thinner sheets to add strength , and they also look nice unlike the PVC which looks terrible and is always painted afterwards (except some corecell Firewire's)


ps , so much to say but hard to type it all

Select to expand quote

ssi said...
We all know that SUP are a craze, we all know tha tpeople and companies /business try to cash in on that Market, do as he says , ask , check out their website, what do they know and last of all , who did they copy from ???
We at Sabre surf Industries , SSI do not copy, we manufacture, as Jimmy Lewis says , wha tbrand ???

a craze?
for people to make a quick $ with a crap product
or
leg warmers, CFMB or yoyos (ect)

Select to expand quote

ssi said...
We all know that SUP are a craze, we all know tha tpeople and companies /business try to cash in on that Market, do as he says , ask , check out their website, what do they know and last of all , who did they copy from ???
We at Sabre surf Industries , SSI do not copy, we manufacture, as Jimmy Lewis says , wha tbrand ???

Hi Greg,
Slightly off topic from original OP but ,
Are you able to provide some of these details re: your new 14' board?
I saw one in your shop the other day. Looked good and the price was very reasonable but have reservations because their is know info available at all on the web and resale on an unknown is not good.

I'm not so interested in the shaping, its the construction that I would like to know about.
What is the layup?
What is the weight?
Can we expect some reviews?

Cheers, Craig

Select to expand quote

latman said...
I agree that PVC foam is often lighter than bamboo , it also has no "direction" to it unlike stronger timber veneer or Bamboo (unidirecional or 0/90 deg) woven sheets but these stronger materials are usually denser (heavier) and must/can be used in thinner sheets to add strength , and they also look nice unlike the PVC which looks terrible and is always painted afterwards (except some corecell Firewire's)


ps , so much to say but hard to type it all

Lats,
Hope you find some time to reply. Your knowledge, skills and experience in this are a very valuable resource.
Cheers

Select to expand quote

tightlines said...
Ok I don't know much about board construction, this little read is by Jimmy Lewis, it may be a bit long winded and sound like a bit of an advert but I had only read it this morning on fb and thought it was relevant.

I do own a Jimmy Lewis board (my 3rd due to being happy with the durability of previous ones) but I have no connection and don't sell SUP's. I am just a happy paddler and I also have two other brands as well.

State of the Stand Up Industry

There are lots of stand up boards and paddles on the market today. There are the established big brands and there are small, relatively unheard of brands and seemingly more and more with each new issue of a stand up magazine. Everyone wants to sell you a stand up board and paddle. There are shop owners who have “their own” brands now. Costco sells stand up board and paddles. The Chinese manufactures of any product related to stand up paddling or surfing sends emails to any and all shops and business who have anything to do with sports, whether it's water sports or not, offering said business to produce boards, paddles or whatever, for them. Many of these shops go for it and get boards made from these factories with their shop name or, more often, some clever Hawaiian sounding name for “their brand.” These shops or other eager entrepreneurs, see a way to make some money off of this new sport and there's NOTHING wrong with that.

It's the person who's going to be BUYING these boards that needs some information. Now WHO is designing and shaping these boards? And how are they built? Most people, especially the end buyer now days, don't know that this is an important thing to know. Most of the stand up boards on the market today, even a few of the “big” brands, are using what I call a “ regular surfboard lamination” construction. That consists of a shaped piece of Styrofoam with a shell of epoxy and a few layers of fiberglass. Some are putting a thin veneer of bamboo or some other type of wood, claiming that this is a “sandwich” and that it's BETTER than a PVC sandwich. This is fantasy. The bamboo or whatever wood they might be using is a LITTLE bit better than another layer of fiberglass but it will dent after a short period of time on the water just as a board that's built with only the layers of fiberglass.

Some people have no idea what sandwich construction is. I'll explain simply:
Sandwich construction is where you have two or more pieces of fiberglass on each side of a thin piece of foam material, usually 1/8” or ¼” PVC high density foam. This is vacuumed onto the Styrofoam blank on the top and the bottom of the board creating the “sandwich” construction. The thicker the piece of material that's between the layers of glass (the glass being the “bread” of the sandwich and the PVC or other material being the “cheese” of the sandwich.) the stronger and stiffer the board will be. Boards with only 2-3 layers of glass do not have much impact strength and they dent easily, especially over a period of time. Having a thin piece of bamboo between two layers of glass is NOT much of a sandwich because the bamboo is not thick enough to create the proper engineering of the sandwich principal. PVC Sandwich is the lightest, strongest construction available. And it's a little more expensive to do because the PVC high density foam used to create a proper sandwich construction is expensive.

Quality of the construction of the boards, regardless if it's a sandwich construction or regular surfboard lamination construction, is important. One of my deckpad suppliers who is in China, has told me that because of the stand up craze, ALL of the major board manufacturers in China are having a BOOM in business. This is because there are so many people coming out of the wood work to get these boards made so they can cash in on this new market. She told me that now the factories are super busy but don't have enough workers to produce so they try to entice workers from OTHER factories to come and work with them. So at this time in China, the workers are moving around a lot, from factory to factory looking for better pay. What this means is that the quality is not consistent.

Most people are not aware of this but all of the boards on the market are all hand made. Some may have molds to keep the board shapes the same but most everything else, including the shaping, is done by hand. They don't just mix up a few chemicals and pour them into a mold and a finished board pops out. Making surfboards (stand up boards) takes skill. Even though all of these boards are made in large quantities, they are all individually built by hand. And those hands need to be skilled and the quality control people in the factories have to be skilled at overseeing the construction. When there is a gypsy work force, this quality and consistency takes a back seat to quantity!! And that's all these companies care about. There is one factory that my China deckpad supplier told me about that had JUST received an order for 2500 stand up boards!!! And the week before this company was just about to close the doors on their business. That means that since they were JUST about to go out of business, their business had probably been sliding for quite a while and they probably had been laying off workers for a while. Now with orders totaling 2500, where do they get workers to build these boards? They have to hire them and train them. Meaning that the quality of the boards is going to be marginal for a LONG time before the new work force has it dialed on how to do them correctly.

So when you go into a shop and the shop has its own brand to sell you, and that board is a few hundred dollars less than a bigger brand named board, you can be pretty sure that board was a generic shape from a Chinese factory that this shop owner had built with their own brand name on it and that it's probably not built to last more than a few months before it starts having problems-- more than likely, denting of the deck and any other area where it might have impact or pressure. Also those boards without sandwich construction are heavier. Weaker and heavier.

The same goes with paddles too. Paddle makers send out mass emails to shops and the shop owner will order a pile of the paddles with a fancy name on it and sell them. The fact is that anything will work. Boards or paddles, anything will work. But there's a HUGE difference in something that will merely work and something that works great!! Anyone can feel the difference, not just experts. In fact it's the novice that can really feel the difference even more so than someone with more experience.

There are a few paddle makers who DESIGN the paddle themselves, such as Jimmy Terrell of Quickblade Paddles. He designs ALL of the Quickblade paddles. He's not buying generic shapes from a manufacturer and putting his logo on it like many shop owners and other “brands” do. Just as I do ALL of the designs and shapes of every one of the boards in my line. I don't have anyone else doing boards for me like SEVERAL of the “big” brands do, where they have some ghost shapers doing the boards and then they put their name on the boards. When you go shopping for a board or when you're doing research on what board to buy, do some investigating on WHO is behind the brand (who designed and shaped the boards). There are some brands that have someone's name on it, but those “names” have never shaped a board in their lives (or at least never did it for a living). There are brands that don't use the shaper's name as their brand such as Paddle Surf Hawaii, but there IS a guy who shapes and designs those boards (Blane Chambers). The brand 404 also has a real shaper behind their name. I've been shaping for 44 years and I put my name on all the boards that I make. My signature, along with the shark logo is my brand.

Check things out before you go out and buy something that you've “saved” a few hundred dollars on.

Thanks and aloha,
Jimmy Lewis

So how do f-one rate ??